London Terror Attack(s)

[theoldbucwild]

Fixed that for you

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I'd argue it started when Bush decided to invade Iraq which I think we can all agree, was a stupid decision.

You are right, since that was a point I would've brought up

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

You are right, since that was a point I would've brought up

Might as well ask you, what are your beliefs? Im a centrist.

 

[theoldbucwild]

Might as well ask you, what are your beliefs? Im a centrist.

I tend to lean Republican/Conservative

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

I tend to lean Republican/Conservative

Ah interesting. Usually, conservatives (that I've talked to) would try to defend bush's actions.

 

[theoldbucwild]

Ah interesting. Usually, conservatives (that I've talked to) would try to defend bush's actions.

Yes, but I do believe he took important steps to lowering taxes.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Yes, but I do believe he took important steps to lowering taxes.

Oh, I'm not saying everything he did was wrong, but I think some of his actions that lead him to fight Iraq was just stupid.

 

[mudassirul]

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun"

If they cease, this is a verse on war not about killing innocent civilians!!!

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islam is the problem , ISIS are simply following/applying the quaran/muahamad teachings to the real world
that's what the islamic state is all about

What do you really know about Islam and Muhammads teachings?

 

[Saiyan Lusitano]

This is becoming a weekly thing now and as if that wasn't bad enough, there's police who don't even carry guns so they're as pointless or even more than a regular citizen. On the off chance, a citizen might carry a weapon for self-defence so he/she could be more useful than a police officer and attempt to save his/her life from the attackers.

The mentality that carrying a weapon is harmful is downright retarded. When you strip the citizens out of protection you're allowing the criminals to do what they want with us.

This is what happens when you keep bringing incompatible people in, EU...
Stop it already god dammit, innocent people are dying because of your bullshit cultural enrichment.

The EU doesn't give a shit about the European continent or its people, they only focus on making $$$ out of it. Eastern-Europe is against EU's policies and they're living without terrorist attacks or "refugees" invading them.

 

[MionissNio]

This is becoming a weekly thing now and as if that wasn't bad enough, there's police who don't even carry guns so they're as pointless or even more than a regular citizen. On the off chance, a citizen might carry a weapon for self-defence so he/she could be more useful than a police officer and attempt to save his/her life from the attackers.

The mentality that carrying a weapon is harmful is downright retarded. When you strip the citizens out of protection you're allowing the criminals to do what they want with us.


The EU doesn't give a shit about the European continent or its people, they only focus on making $$$ out of it. Eastern-Europe is against EU's policies and they're living without terrorist attacks or "refugees" invading them.

Agreed! Just two days ago I heard a bomb blast in Afghanistan killing 84.

The best solution is to make fine glass out of the middle East or just let them be you know stop all trading and shit except India it's good.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

EVERYTIME you segregate people you play the game of these psychopaths.

And every time you protect the ideology you make things worse. H. Clinton and B.H. Obama didn't even say the word Islamic or Islam. Nor did Obama allow the people in his government to say/write it. It's the big elephant in the room destroying things and we are forced to look down and don't mention the elephant. And if we do we are elephantophobes.

It's much easier to justify child marriage, religious wars, sex slavery, killing for mockery, killing of apostates etc by looking at Islamic texts and the founder of the religion than it is to justify child abuse of Catholic priests or bombings of abortion clinics (in which 10 or so people died in history).
But for argument's sake let's assume that all religions are equally bad.

The biggest difference between Muslims and Christians is that the latter have relativized (put into perspective) their religion. It is only a tiny minority in the Muslim communities who is willing to actually kill and die for their faith. But their is a much larger percentage of people with scary world views that foster terrorism. I don't need to quote any studies, you can look them up yourself. If a migrant wants to attack somebody for insulting "his" prophet (or wants the government to punish the person), he has no place in a modern society, for instance. And no, his "prophet" is not more dear to him than his mother. If that's the case, he needs to go to a mental hospital. Religions are ideas and ideas can be criticized.
By protecting the ideology, things are only going to get worse. Muslims don't need a reformation (one could argue that Wahabism and the Salafist movement are already the reformation: going back to how the prophet and his companions lived), they need the enlightenment/critical thinking.
It is in fact racist to thing that Muslims can't handle enlightenment.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

And every time you protect the ideology you make things worse. H. Clinton and B.H. Obama didn't even say the word Islamic or Islam. Nor did Obama allow the people in his government to say/write it. It's the big elephant in the room destroying things and we are forced to look down and don't mention the elephant. And if we do we are elephantophobes.

The fuck are you talking about?
http://www.searchquotes.com/search/Obama_Islam/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...al-security-council-meeting-on-islamic-state/
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/...ch?q=obama+speeches+islam&PC=SMSM&FORM=MBDPSB

Edit: I guess you also think you're pretty edgy by using Obama's middle initial

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

This is becoming a weekly thing now and as if that wasn't bad enough, there's police who don't even carry guns so they're as pointless or even more than a regular citizen. On the off chance, a citizen might carry a weapon for self-defence so he/she could be more useful than a police officer and attempt to save his/her life from the attackers.

The mentality that carrying a weapon is harmful is downright retarded. When you strip the citizens out of protection you're allowing the criminals to do what they want with us.


The EU doesn't give a shit about the European continent or its people, they only focus on making $$$ out of it. Eastern-Europe is against EU's policies and they're living without terrorist attacks or "refugees" invading them.

Please at least try to show a hint of knowledge, this was homegrown terror, funnily enough only one of the past attacks was done by an immigrant.
And to blame this all on syrian refugees is like blaming Jews for what Hitler did.

Agreed! Just two days ago I heard a bomb blast in Afghanistan killing 84.

The best solution is to make fine glass out of the middle East or just let them be you know stop all trading and shit except India it's good.

And we muslims are called the violent ones... Funny how the people become the monsters they fear.

And every time you protect the ideology you make things worse. H. Clinton and B.H. Obama didn't even say the word Islamic or Islam. Nor did Obama allow the people in his government to say/write it. It's the big elephant in the room destroying things and we are forced to look down and don't mention the elephant. And if we do we are elephantophobes.

It's much easier to justify child marriage, religious wars, sex slavery, killing for mockery, killing of apostates etc by looking at Islamic texts and the founder of the religion than it is to justify child abuse of Catholic priests or bombings of abortion clinics (in which 10 or so people died in history).
But for argument's sake let's assume that all religions are equally bad.

The biggest difference between Muslims and Christians is that the latter have relativized (put into perspective) their religion. It is only a tiny minority in the Muslim communities who is willing to actually kill and die for their faith. But their is a much larger percentage of people with scary world views that foster terrorism. I don't need to quote any studies, you can look them up yourself. If a migrant wants to attack somebody for insulting "his" prophet (or wants the government to punish the person), he has no place in a modern society, for instance. And no, his "prophet" is not more dear to him than his mother. If that's the case, he needs to go to a mental hospital. Religions are ideas and ideas can be criticized.
By protecting the ideology, things are only going to get worse. Muslims don't need a reformation (one could argue that Wahabism and the Salafist movement are already the reformation: going back to how the prophet and his companions lived), they need the enlightenment/critical thinking.
It is in fact racist to thing that Muslims can't handle enlightenment.

I'd agree with you on most of your points but I'd like to discuss a few of them.

"And if we do we are elephantophobes"

I'm not sure if you're suggesting this but if you're saying Islamophobia doesn't exist at all then you must also accept that neither does anti-Semitism, racism, sexism, homophobia or xenophobia.
Now, are you willing to suggest there is no such thing as an irrational, hatred filled, fear of Islam?
Of course, it is completely rational to criticise a religion and I'll have you know that it is completely within the rights of non-Muslim to criticise Islam and for any Muslim to suggest otherwise, they've obviously learnt little about the past of Islamic society.

In the early centuries of the Islamic Caliphate, the Islamic law allowed citizens to freely express their views, including criticism of Islam and religious authorities, without fear of persecution.[21][22][23] As such, there have been several notable critics and skeptics of Islam that arose from within the Islamic world itself. In tenth and eleventh-century Syria there lived a blind poet called Al-Ma'arri. He became well known for a poetry that was affected by a "pervasive pessimism." He labeled religions in general as "noxious weeds" and said that Islam does not have a monopoly on truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Islam#Medieval_Islamic_world

Citations:

1. Boisard, Marcel A. (July 1980). "On the Probable Influence of Islam on Western Public and International Law". International Journal of Middle East Studies. 11 (4): 429–50. doi:10.1017/s0020743800054805.
2. "Nahjul Balagha Part 1, The Sermons". Al-Islam.org.
3. Ronald Bontekoe, Mariėtta Tigranovna Stepaniants (1997). Justice and Democracy. University of Hawaii Press. p. 251. ISBN 0-8248-1926-8.

" But their is a much larger percentage of people with scary world views that foster terrorism"

could you elaborate on this point?

"they need the enlightenment/critical thinking"

You might need to elaborate on this too seeing as how I don't quite get how you get from having terrorists to "all muslims need to think differently"
Of course I'm going to assume that you're assuming some Islamic rulings are actually true and not things that have been used by non-muslims for decades to try and make Islam something it is not.

 

[deinonychus71]

The biggest difference between Muslims and Christians is that the latter have relativized (put into perspective) their religion. It is only a tiny minority in the Muslim communities who is willing to actually kill and die for their faith. But their is a much larger percentage of people with scary world views that foster terrorism. I don't need to quote any studies, you can look them up yourself. If a migrant wants to attack somebody for insulting "his" prophet (or wants the government to punish the person), he has no place in a modern society, for instance. And no, his "prophet" is not more dear to him than his mother. If that's the case, he needs to go to a mental hospital. Religions are ideas and ideas can be criticized.
By protecting the ideology, things are only going to get worse. Muslims don't need a reformation (one could argue that Wahabism and the Salafist movement are already the reformation: going back to how the prophet and his companions lived), they need the enlightenment/critical thinking.
It is in fact racist to thing that Muslims can't handle enlightenment.

Agreed with all of this. But that doesn't change the fact that segregating them like some people do in this thread and pretty much everywhere, does absolutely nothing good. Its a much more complex issue than that.

I am not saying we should not take preventive measures, i am not saying we should avoid even using the word Islam or saying that Islam right now is facing issues - this is a mistake to ignore it -, but its really important to not cut all the bridges. Even if only 10% of muslims are "compatible" with western societies, it's still 10% that you do not want to alienate, they're the educated people and they are the best armed to help their own people to become "compatible".

Also i'd to point out that as a kid, before all this shitstorm started with 9/11 and all I went to Tunisia, Maroco Egypt etc and the people there were overwhelmingly welcoming, extremely social, the kind of good hearts that is becoming hard to find in our countries. Yes I was a tourist, but there was no denying these people were genuinely good. It pisses me off to no end when ignorant people (not saying you are) who never truly met muslims judge them as a whole and call them terrorist and stuff. Fear and ignorance are a really bad couple.

I hate that religions are so powerful, i hate the damage it does to this world, but we must not fight the wrong enemies. Extremists are from every country and every religion. Today it's some muslims, yesterday it was christians, you don't know what it will be tomorrow.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

The fuck are you talking about?
http://www.searchquotes.com/search/Obama_Islam/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...al-security-council-meeting-on-islamic-state/
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/...ch?q=obama+speeches+islam&PC=SMSM&FORM=MBDPSB

Edit: I guess you also think you're pretty edgy by using Obama's middle initial

Glad you noticed it.
I meant he never said "Radical Islam" or Islamic/Islamist terror attack. Of course he used the word "Islam". But never in a negative way

From the 3rd link you posted:
Obama: "And let me make a final point. For a while now, the main contribution of some of my friends on the other side of the aisle have made in the fight against ISIL is to criticize this administration and me for not using the phrase "radical Islam." That's the key, they tell us. We can't beat ISIL unless we call them radical Islamists. What exactly would using this label would accomplish?"

BTW from the first link you posted:
"I consider it part of my responsibility as President of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear."
-> OH MY GOD! (I knew this quote but think about it for a moment... is that the job description of the president of the USA?!)

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Spoiler: Some dumb pic

So I've been seeing this picture making the rounds on social media. I can assure you it's full of shit as literally all of the attacks in Ireland are from the IRA and not ISIS.

 

[Saiyan Lusitano]

Agreed! Just two days ago I heard a bomb blast in Afghanistan killing 84.

The best solution is to make fine glass out of the middle East or just let them be you know stop all trading and shit except India it's good.

People just want to live a peaceful live, you know, having fun and then this happens. It needs to end.

Things will ultimately get worse before they get better. Western Europe will regrettably have to have a civil war because of the shit constantly happening.

lease at least try to show a hint of knowledge, this was homegrown terror, funnily enough only one of the past attacks was done by an immigrant.

They're doing it in the name of Allah so despite being born in UK their parents were foreigners.

And to blame this all on syrian refugees is like blaming Jews for what Hitler did.

You are so clueless. Syrian refugees? The so-called refugees aren't refugees neither Syrians, they're from the African continent and from other Middle-Eastern countries than actually Syria.

Here's actual, real Syrian people uniting together and not refugees but citizens in their beloved Syria:

And the so-called refugees...

You import said culture, you get that culture.

 

[deinonychus71]

So I've been seeing this picture making the rounds on social media. I can assure you it's full of shit as literally all of the attacks in Ireland are from the IRA and not ISIS.

Yep and it also fails to highlight that some of these attacks come from citizen of these countries.
The usual propaganda bullshit.

 

[Deleted-355425]

You are such a stupid fucking racist. Its tiring dealing with you dumb fucking cunts who dont what they are talking about. AND BTW Im a cancer survivor so go fuck off. You are probably jealous because of how safe Japan is so you are trying to scare people using bullshit tactics....its tiring leave Japan alone all you can say is Fukushima Fukushima but its mostly contained. Our government is doing its best. Its safe. I've been to Fukushima which by the way the city of Fukushima is 80 miles from the nuclear power plant.

yes yes you keep saying im a racist but you have nothing to back it up. You are a racist.

 

[Saiyan Lusitano]

Yep and it also fails to highlight that some of these attacks come from citizen of these countries.
The usual propaganda bullshit.

It's ISIS fighters born in these countries

 

[deinonychus71]

It's ISIS fighters born in these countries

Yeah and so you won't fix it by building walls.