London Terror Attack(s)

[Saiyan Lusitano]

Yeah and so you won't fix it by building walls.

Since they're ISIS fighters they can be kept off the country they're born as they're harmful, plus, they could also alternatively arrest them. Neither works. Both would be considered racists options.

Better to leave them out in the open killing people.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

People just want to live a peaceful live, you know, having fun and then this happens. It needs to end.

Things will ultimately get worse before they get better. Western Europe will regrettably have to have a civil war because of the shit constantly happening.


They're doing it in the name of Allah so despite being born in UK their parents were foreigners.


You are so clueless. Syrian refugees? The so-called refugees aren't refugees neither Syrians, they're from the African continent and from other Middle-Eastern countries than actually Syria


You import said culture, you get that culture.

So what if their parents are foreigners? If you go far back enough in time everyone's parents are foreigners. Humanity started in Africa after all.

Yeah, now you're just showing your ingorance.

Here are some other pictures:
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4...NNNRsALSfl+OMxmMZ/sdMP0QLqM0+ImeeMxmMxI7Z/9k= http://data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4...NNNRsALSfl+OMxmMZ/sdMP0QLqM0+ImeeMxmMxI7Z/9k= http://data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4...NNNRsALSfl+OMxmMZ/sdMP0QLqM0+ImeeMxmMxI7Z/9k=

http://data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4...NNNRsALSfl+OMxmMZ/sdMP0QLqM0+ImeeMxmMxI7Z/9k=

Yeah, that doesnt look so happy to me.

Also, those pictures are complete bullshit. It would also seem you got both from the same guy on Twitter, I wouldnt consider that all that credible when these pictures are from some guy on the internet. I bet you cant even provide evidence that this is actually Syria.

So now I ask you to provide evidence for your bullshit claims.

Edit: I must thank you though, you've just shown me that your news is alt-right conspiracy theories:
https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/871030622889889792

 

[Deleted-355425]

Looks like religion is working out great for them /s

 

[deinonychus71]

Since they're ISIS fighters they can be kept off the country they're born as they're harmful, plus, they could also alternatively arrest them. Neither works. Both would be considered racists options.

Better to leave them out in the open killing people.

No. You can't deny a person a nationality. If their only nationality is french they can't be expelled. No matter what.
Besides. Yeah arrest them... but you gotta know who they are first. Many many attempts are already stopped but some go through sadly.

 

[Saiyan Lusitano]

So what if their parents are foreigners? If you go far back enough in time everyone's parents are foreigners. Humanity started in Africa after all.

Yeah, now you're just showing your ingorance.

Here are some other pictures:
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4...NNNRsALSfl+OMxmMZ/sdMP0QLqM0+ImeeMxmMxI7Z/9k= http://data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4...NNNRsALSfl+OMxmMZ/sdMP0QLqM0+ImeeMxmMxI7Z/9k= http://data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4...NNNRsALSfl+OMxmMZ/sdMP0QLqM0+ImeeMxmMxI7Z/9k=

http://data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4...NNNRsALSfl+OMxmMZ/sdMP0QLqM0+ImeeMxmMxI7Z/9k=

Yeah, that doesnt look so happy to me.

Also, those pictures are complete bullshit. It would also seem you got both from the same guy on Twitter, I wouldnt consider that all that credible when these pictures are from some guy on the internet. I bet you cant even provide evidence that this is actually Syria.

So now I ask you to provide evidence for your bullshit claims.

Edit: I must thank you though, you've just shown me that your news is alt-right conspiracy theories:
https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/871030622889889792

BS? Not really. You just prefer to ignore the reality and be pro-terrorism as by the looks of it.

Looks like religion is working out great for them /s

Europe needs to be more culturally enriched.

 

[Joe88]

there's police who don't even carry guns so they're as pointless or even more than a regular citizen. On the off chance, a citizen might carry a weapon for self-defence so he/she could be more useful than a police officer and attempt to save his/her life from the attackers.

don't worry, UK police are highly trained to deal with these situations

 

[Saiyan Lusitano]

don't worry, UK police are highly trained to deal with these situations

Fucking pointless police officers. They are a disgrace to themselves, to the career they're on and for the people.

 

[rileysrjay]

don't worry, UK police are highly trained to deal with these situations

Ever heard of a taser?

 

[Saiyan Lusitano]

Ever heard of a taser?

How dare you! That would hurt the... students.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

BS? Not really. You just prefer to ignore the reality and be pro-terrorism as by the looks of it.



Europe needs to be more culturally enriched.

You can claim whatever. It's obvious you would rather believe in fiction rather than fact.
And how am I pro-terrorism? But sure, that's easily believable when you would rather delusion yourself than accept being wrong.

 

[Pacheko17]

Thats an incorrect quote.
Here's what fitnah really means:
Sahih International: And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- îaram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

Pickthall: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

Yusuf Ali: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

Shakir: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

Muhammad Sarwar: Slay them wherever you may catch them and expel them from the place from which they expelled you. The sin of disbelief in God is greater than committing murder. Do not fight them in the vicinity of the Sacred Mosque in Mecca unless they start to fight. Then slay them for it is the recompense that the disbelievers deserve.

Mohsin Khan: And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

Arberry: And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them -- such is the recompense of unbelievers --

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=2&verse=191
These are the most notable translations and they all use persecution.

Also notice the quran end the 3 lines with Az-Zalimun. This further strengthens my point as Az-Zalimun translates to:
the wrong-doers, az-zâlimûn, who injure, who are unjust, who oppress, who wrong themselves

Edit: Thought I'd go into further detail just to bury your argument:

Notice all of them say:
"drive them out from whence they drove you out"

Does this not show clear evidence of retaliation?
Seeing as how it's calling muslims to fight those who fought them out of their homes.

They also say:
"and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you"

Which is literally saying, do not fight them unless they fight you. So I must thank you for proving to me that Islam calls for self defence just like any other self respecting ideology.



Erm, these guys weren't immigrants, it was homegrown terror actually, so maybe learn something before you start claiming crap like that?

Still islamic terrorism.
If the immigrants never came in, that wouldn't have happened. They are importing this ideology.

Or are you going to defend Islam and call it a religion of peace?

 

[deinonychus71]

Still islamic terrorism.
If the immigrants never came in, that wouldn't have happened. They are importing this ideology.

Or are you going to defend Islam and call it a religion of peace?

No. Many of these terrorists are not refugees/migrants but are instead born in the country.
How many times does it have to be said... this issue is more complex than just closing the borders getting guns and everything will be fine.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Still islamic terrorism.
If the immigrants never came in, that wouldn't have happened. They are importing this ideology.

Or are you going to defend Islam and call it a religion of peace?

I'm not saying it's not.
How the hell do you come to that conclusion? You lack so much knowledge that I just feel sorry for you. Ever heard of the internet? Ideology need not be imported physically just read on the internet, that's easily enough to delusion somebody. Just look at @saiyan Luistano. This is the same guy that got salty because he's a flag worshipper.

 

[DrayanoX]

The problem isn't Islam, it's ISIS. And no, ISIS isn't Islam, they pretend to be but they aren't.
If governments really wanted to stop ISIS, then they should just stop buying their cheap oil and selling them weapons.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

I'm not sure if you're suggesting this but if you're saying Islamophobia doesn't exist at all then you must also accept that neither does anti-Semitism, racism, sexism, homophobia or xenophobia.

I'm afraid I have been called all of these despite none of them being true. lol
Name-calling is the easiest way of shutting somebody up without confronting his/her arguments.
There is genuine racism and xenophobia (I have experienced it personally and it hurts!) but by overusing these terms, they lose all of their meaning.

Now, are you willing to suggest there is no such thing as an irrational, hatred filled, fear of Islam?

I would have been killed for what I'm writing in sharia-governed countries. So yes, I fear Islam and this fear is not irrational. Neither can I openly say these things without the likelihood of being attacked in my own country (with a Muslim minority). Just look up the Egyptian (and former Muslim Brotherhood member) Hamed Abdel-Samad. He is under constant police protection in Germany.

Of course, it is completely rational to criticise a religion and I'll have you know that it is completely within the rights of non-Muslim to criticise Islam and for any Muslim to suggest otherwise, they've obviously learnt little about the past of Islamic society.

There have been times of moderate Islamic rulers like e.g. in Bagdad (including drinking alcohol etc) but when push comes to shove Muhammad and his companions always trump any other Islamic government. I'm thankful for your view, but would you honestly dare to say these things in majority-Mulim countries? I mean lecturing them about it. You would be afraid of being called an apostate or hypocrite.

"they need the enlightenment/critical thinking"
You might need to elaborate on this too seeing as how I don't quite get how you get from having terrorists to "all muslims need to think differently"

It's a mindset in a large part of the Islamic world. Look at historical research... people are afraid to even touch the subject. Not only did the Muslim world not have Feuerbach and Voltaire but there is also the fact that many Muslims take criticism of Islam personally. It's not surprising, seeing how "Islam" is submission (and the Quran says you can't have real faith until you fully submit to Muhammad and his decisions). Religion should not have political power over people.

............. .......... ............... .......... ............... .......... ...............

Agreed with all of this. But that doesn't change the fact that segregating them like some people do in this thread and pretty much everywhere, does absolutely nothing good.

Are you saying that if we were to openly blame Islam (instead of protecting it from criticism) for the problem of terror attacks, then more and more Muslims will join ISIS or blow themselves up?

 

[deinonychus71]

Are you saying that if we were to openly blame Islam (instead of protecting it from criticism) for the problem of terror attacks, then more and more Muslims will join ISIS or blow themselves up?

Instead of straight up blaming Islam, which does absolutely nothing but create tensions with people who were actually okay with us, we have to include them as part of the solution against ISIS, again these X % of "compatible" muslims are our best allies again islamism and we need to work with them.

 

[death360]

don't worry, UK police are highly trained to deal with these situations

Wow wtf is that real I doubt that would happen in the u.s. it be more like shoot first ask questions later.

 

[Deleted-355425]

Wow wtf is that real I doubt that would happen in the u.s. it be more like shoot first ask questions later.

We need some US police over here in the UK.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Firstly, I'd like to thank you for being one of the few people on this thread who is respectful enough and calm enough to debate your points.

I'm afraid I have been called all of these despite non of them being true. lol
Name-calling is the easiest way of shutting somebody up without confronting his/her arguments.
There is genuine racism and xenophobia (I have experienced it personally and it hurts!) but by overusing these terms, they lose all of their meaning.

I agree.

I would have been killed for what I'm writing in sharia-governed countries. So yes, I fear Islam and this fear is not irrational. Neither can I openly say these things without the likelihood of being attacked in my own country (with a Muslim minority). Just look up the Egyptian (and former Muslim Brotherhood member) Hamed Abdel-Samad. He is under constant police protection in Germany.

And that's an issue with these countries that do not correctly follow the teachings they follow so dearly. I urge you not to conflate muslim countries and muslims with the religion as that will always lead to bigotry.

There have been times of moderate Islamic rulers like e.g. in Bagdad (including drinking alcohol etc) but when push comes to shove Muhammad and his companions always trump any other Islamic government. I'm thankful for your view, but would you honestly dare to say these things in majority-Mulim countries? I mean lecturing them about it. You would be afraid of being called an apostate or hypocrite.

It is not I who is in the wrong for having this view. Seeing as how it is completely within Islamic law to allow for criticism of Islam.

It's a mindset in a large part of the Islamic world. Look at historical research... people are afraid to even touch the subject. Not only did the Muslim world not have Feuerbach and Voltaire but there is also the fact that many Muslims take criticism of Islam personally. It's not surprising, seeing how "Islam" is submission (and the Quran says you can't have real faith until you fully submit to Muhammad and his decisions). Religion should not have political power over people.

To an extent, I agree with you. But, a lot of the time's that I've seen muslim people choose not to question their religion it is more to do with cultural factors rather than religion. for example, in south-east Asia children are expected not to question their parents and in a lot of cases that leads them to not questioning faith.

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We need some US police over here in the UK.

I didn't know people on the temp were so violent.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

The problem isn't Islam, it's ISIS. And no, ISIS isn't Islam, they pretend to be but they aren't.

Who are you to say that they are not Islamic?
You are not the judge here. They would say the same about you.
Unlike being male or female you can actually "decide" to be Christian, Muslim, Buddhist etc.
Islam is not your based on your opinion but on the Quran and Muhammad.

If governments really wanted to stop ISIS, then they should just stop buying their cheap oil and selling them weapons.

Agreed. Many western governments are part of the problem, not the solution. And of course Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar.[/QUOTE]