London Terror Attack(s)

[smile72]

But but but religion has nothing to do with it.
Can I call you a racist now in return?

No, I'm just saying a possible reason could perhaps be for the abscence of religion or the homogeneous nature of Japan. You should remember even among other Asian nations that Japan is incredibly unique. For its personality, its culture, and such. So thats why I used the term possible. And stop blaming Islam its tiring.Christian terrorism happens too. Just ask Oregon. And may I ask have you even lived in Japan for any period of time?

 

[Ritsuki]

But but but religion has nothing to do with it.
Can I call you a racist now in return?

I don't understand your point of view, if religion has nothing to do, why even bring Japan into this discussion ? If you could clarify what you mean, that would be nice

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No, I'm just saying a possible reason could perhaps be for the abscence of religion or the homogeneous nature of Japan. You should remember even among other Asian nations that Japan is incredibly unique. For its personality, its culture, and such. So thats why I used the term possible. And stop blaming Islam its tiring.Christian terrorism happens too. Just ask Oregon. And may I ask have you even lived in Japan for any period of time?

A bit off topice, but as a big fan of Japan, I understand why foreigners has this perception of Japan. For a long time Japan was secluded (well, it's an island after all ) and they had really bad experience with the first foreigners in the past. Thing is, Japan is not racist as we think, actually it's more like a very very very shy country, and very traditional. But it's not that they don't like strangers, they're just super suspicious of anyone who isn't japanese

And please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

 

[smile72]

I don't understand your point of view, if religion has nothing to do, why even bring Japan into this discussion ? If you could clarify what you mean, that would be nice

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A bit off topice, but as a big fan of Japan, I understand why foreigners has this perception of Japan. For a long time Japan was secluded (well, it's an island after all ) and they had really bad experience with the first foreigners in the past. Thing is, Japan is not racist as we think, actually it's more like a very very very shy country, and very traditional. But it's not that they don't like strangers, they're just super suspicious of anyone who isn't japanese

And please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

No, you are correct Japan is not racist...well most Japanese are not racist...Most Japanese are quite reserved and as such a lot of foreigners tend to view Japanese as overtly friendly when they are just being polite. It really means nothing its secondhand to them. Its part of their personality.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

No, I'm just saying a possible reason could perhaps be for the abscence of religion or the homogeneous nature of Japan. You should remember even among other Asian nations that Japan is incredibly unique. For its personality, its culture, and such. So thats why I used the term possible. And stop blaming Islam its tiring.Christian terrorism happens too. Just ask Oregon. And may I ask have you even lived in Japan for any period of time?

So again, religion has something to do with it by your own admission.
Can I please call you a racist now? If not, why not?

I have not been in Japan. Maybe my view is biased. It is based on a documentary I watched and articles like these:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...rveillance-japan-muslims-160629040956466.html

I will stop talking about Japan if you stop talking about Islam. Have you read the Quran, Sunna and Sira?

So I officially take back the claim that Japanese authorities monitor Muslims more than those of other countries. I apologize for making that claim.

My argument is as follows: Countries with a low or non-existent Muslim population are not (or much less) plagued by Islamic terrorists.
Can we agree on that?

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I don't understand your point of view, if religion has nothing to do, why even bring Japan into this discussion ? If you could clarify what you mean, that would be nice

Certainly, Sir. The first post quoted the mayor of London who has said that terrorism is "part and parcel" of living in a big city. I countered this claim by saying the biggest country in the world, Tokyo, does not have a problem with Allahu Akbar screaming, throat cutting, cartoonist killing "incidents".

 

[smile72]

So again, religion has something to do with it by your own admission.
Can I please call you a racist now? If not, why not?

I have not been in Japan. Maybe my view is biased. It is based on a documentary I watched and articles like these:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...rveillance-japan-muslims-160629040956466.html

I will stop talking about Japan if you stop talking about Islam. Have you read the Quran, Sunna and Sira?

So I officially take back the claim that Japanese authorities monitor Muslims more than those of other countries. I apologize for making that claim.

My argument is as follows: Countries with a low or non-existent Muslim population are not (or much less) plagued by Islamic terrorists.
Can we agree on that?

Nope we cannot because the reasons at least about why Japan has a low crime is not related to that and I have read portions of the Qaran. I haven't had time to read the whole book yet. Im sorry about that. The police might monitor some Muslim residents of japan but...we should mention that this one of the darker sides of Japan and this IS NOT one of the reasons why we are so safe. However yes I would like to stop talking about Japan as its tiring as I came in here to discuss the London attacks but person after person keeps mentioning Japan.

 

[MionissNio]

So again, religion has something to do with it by your own admission.
Can I please call you a racist now? If not, why not?

I have not been in Japan. Maybe my view is biased. It is based on a documentary I watched and articles like these:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...rveillance-japan-muslims-160629040956466.html

I will stop talking about Japan if you stop talking about Islam. Have you read the Quran, Sunna and Sira?

So I officially take back the claim that Japanese authorities monitor Muslims more than those of other countries. I apologize for making that claim.

My argument is as follows: Countries with a low or non-existent Muslim population are not (or much less) plagued by Islamic terrorists.
Can we agree on that?

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Certainly, Sir. The first post quoted the mayor of London who has said that terrorism is "part and parcel" of living in a big city. I countered this claim by saying the biggest country in the world, Tokyo, does not have a problem with Allahu Akbar screaming, throat cutting, cartoonist killing "incidents".

Nope we cannot because the reasons at least about why Japan has a low crime is not related to that and I have read portions of the Qaran. I haven't had time to read the whole book yet. Im sorry about that. The police might monitor some Muslim residents of japan but...we should mention that this one of the darker sides of Japan and this IS NOT one of the reasons why we are so safe. However yes I would like to stop talking about Japan as its tiring as I came in here to discuss the London attacks but person after person keeps mentioning Japan.

If you read the Quran I highly recommend reading the interpretation of these verses and discussing them with Imams as well.

 

[theoldbucwild]

Bwahahahah! Christianity... BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHA! Yeah right.. Like that's -any- better.

how many problems have Christians made? What about Jews too? It's not like everyday there is a new Muslim attack. Religion of Peace right?

 

[Ritsuki]

Certainly, Sir. The first post quoted the mayor of London who has said that terrorism is "part and parcel" of living in a big city. I countered this claim by saying the biggest country in the world, Tokyo, does not have a problem with Allahu Akbar screaming, throat cutting, cartoonist killing "incidents".

Thank you, that actually makes way more sense to me now

My argument is as follows: Countries with a low or non-existent Muslim population are not (or much less) plagued by Islamic terrorists.

What do you mean by low ? 10% ? Less ? More ?

Well in a sense you're right, the less muslims there is, the less islam related crimes there will be, but that's a valid point for any group of people lol

 

[MionissNio]

how many problems have Christians made? What about Jews too? It's not like everyday there is a new Muslim attack. Religion of Peace right?

Hmm I'm a Muslim and it really concerns me when did Islam become religion of peace? Infact no group in the world is for peace, infact peace itself is a human construct.

 

[theoldbucwild]

Hmm I'm a Muslim and it really concerns me when did Islam become religion of peace? Infact no group in the world is for peace, infact peace itself is a human construct.

I hear it all the time.

 

[MionissNio]

I hear it all the time.

No it's not you it's everywhere and I'm seriously concerned did Muslims start this or who did?

 

[theoldbucwild]

No it's not you it's everywhere and I'm seriously concerned did Muslims start this or who did?

Well it really all started:

http://www.crf-usa.org/america-resp...rom-1945-to-the-death-of-osama-bin-laden.html

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

The police might monitor some Muslim residents of japan but...we should mention that this one of the darker sides of Japan and this IS NOT one of the reasons why we are so safe.

Sorry for bringing this up again but I'm confused.
Did you call me racist for implying that Japanese authorities monitor Muslims (a) or for implying that Islam has something to do with ISLAMIC/ISLAMIST terror attacks (b).
If a: Then why do you seem to agree with me all of a sudden even though I took back that claim for lack of knowledge?
If b: Islam is not a race, it's an ideology. White Muslims can be just as radical.

Nope we cannot because the reasons at least about why Japan has a low crime is not related to that

So there would be no more terror attacks if there were 10mio Sunnies living in Japan as opposed to the current 60.000?
Is that what you're saying?
Do you believe in logic?
I don't mean this as in insult. I have actually read about a female professor who does not.

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What do you mean by low ? 10% ? Less ? More ?

Well in a sense you're right, the less muslims there is, the less islam related crimes there will be, but that's a valid point for any group of people lol

Well it's obvious but many people would deny that. I think smile72 might be one of them.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Amen to that,amigo

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Using religion for an excuse for murder is just downright idiotic...people make their own choices,their holy book of choice does not do it for them...

Someone with logic?! For shame!

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun"

#religionofpeace #notallmuslims #yallwhitetrash #ireadthequranandthereisnothingaboutkillingpeople

Ah time to woop some ass.

So lets discuss this shall we?

As you guys may have noticed in this verse of the quran Vipera left out an untranslated word "fitnah" which literally means torture/persecution.
So to summarise:
The verse is (or more aptly was) calling muslims to fight those who would persecute them and try to kill their people. So you're telling me fighting aginst persecution is wrong? Good to know.

 

[smile72]

Sorry for bringing this up again but I'm confused.
Did you call me racist for implying that Japanese authorities monitor Muslims (a) or for implying that Islam has something to do with ISLAMIC/ISLAMIST terror attacks (b).
If a: Then why do you seem to agree with me all of a sudden even though I took back that claim for lack of knowledge?
If b: Islam is not a race, it's an ideology. White Muslims can be just as radical.


So there would be no more terror attacks if there were 10mio Sunnies living in Japan as opposed to the current 60.000?
Is that what you're saying?
Do you believe in logic?
I don't mean this as in insult. I have actually read about a female professor who does not.

Again you bring up Japan...again we are a unique case I never called you a racist.. I said what you said was racist and that was that Japan is safe because they are not afraid to be called racists thats not true. We are safe due to a complex number of reasons. Not one of which is due to a lack of Muslims. All I can say is I dontt think there would be any difference in attacks even if we had a larger Muslim population although i do think 10,000,000 is quite exaggerated as that would make Japan almost 10 percent Muslim and again we arent even 3 percent of any religion except Shinto and Buddhism.Now can you drop it about Japan and if you wanna discuss about Muslims and large cities please talk about Singapore then, they are a beautiful city state and they are 15 percent Muslim. Move on.

 

[Vipera]

Ah time to woop some ass.

So lets discuss this shall we?

As you guys may have noticed in this verse of the quran Vipera left out an untranslated word "fitnah" which literally means torture/persecution.
So to summarise:
The verse is (or more aptly was) calling muslims to fight those who would persecute them and try to kill their people. So you're telling me fighting aginst persecution is wrong? Good to know.

Shirk and kufr, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allaah)” [al-Baqarah 2:193]

Ibn Katheer said: this means shirk (worshipping others besides Allaah).

Try again.

It's also ironic that the muslim guy wants to be violent towards others. Whatever you say dude, just don't blow up on me (heh).

 

[Pacheko17]

This is what happens when you keep bringing incompatible people in, EU...
Stop it already god dammit, innocent people are dying because of your bullshit cultural enrichment.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Try again.

It's also ironic that the muslim guy wants to be violent towards others. Whatever you say dude, just don't blow up on me (heh).

Thats an incorrect quote.
Here's what fitnah really means:
Sahih International: And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- îaram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

Pickthall: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

Yusuf Ali: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

Shakir: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

Muhammad Sarwar: Slay them wherever you may catch them and expel them from the place from which they expelled you. The sin of disbelief in God is greater than committing murder. Do not fight them in the vicinity of the Sacred Mosque in Mecca unless they start to fight. Then slay them for it is the recompense that the disbelievers deserve.

Mohsin Khan: And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

Arberry: And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them -- such is the recompense of unbelievers --

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=2&verse=191
These are the most notable translations and they all use persecution.

Also notice the quran end the 3 lines with Az-Zalimun. This further strengthens my point as Az-Zalimun translates to:
the wrong-doers, az-zâlimûn, who injure, who are unjust, who oppress, who wrong themselves

Edit: Thought I'd go into further detail just to bury your argument:

Notice all of them say:
"drive them out from whence they drove you out"

Does this not show clear evidence of retaliation?
Seeing as how it's calling muslims to fight those who fought them out of their homes.

They also say:
"and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you"

Which is literally saying, do not fight them unless they fight you. So I must thank you for proving to me that Islam calls for self defence just like any other self respecting ideology.

This is what happens when you keep bringing incompatible people in, EU...
Stop it already god dammit, innocent people are dying because of your bullshit cultural enrichment.

Erm, these guys weren't immigrants, it was homegrown terror actually, so maybe learn something before you start claiming crap like that?

 

[deinonychus71]

I so wish religions would stop being a thing at all. I am so tired of hearing religious fights while there's so many things more important in our lives and the future of our planet than cults... and while so many of us DO NOT ACTUALLY GIVE A SHIT ABOUT RELIGION.
Damnit our populations are fighting against each other for spiritual bullshit.

And please, stop turning it into a Christian/Muslim/Jew war, there is nothing more idiotic than blaming a whole culture for the stupidity of extremists.
Christianity had its troubled times as well, a religion by its essence (can't be proven) serves as the perfect excuse to commit atrocities.

This isn't about Christians versus Muslims, this isn't about Western Countries versus Arab Countries, this is about sane people versus psychopaths.

EVERYTIME you segregate people you play the game of these psychopaths.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

I so wish religions would stop being a thing at all. I am so tired of hearing religious fights while there's so many things more important in our lives and the future of our planet than cults... and while so many of us DO NOT ACTUALLY GIVE A SHIT ABOUT RELIGION.
Damnit our populations are fighting against each other for spiritual bullshit.

And please, stop turning it into a Christian/Muslim/Jew war, there is nothing more idiotic than blaming a whole culture for the stupidity of extremists.
Christianity had its troubled times as well, an ideology by its essence (can't be proven) serves as the perfect excuse to commit atrocities.

This isn't about Christians versus Muslims, this isn't about Western Countries versus Arab Countries, this is about sane people versus psychopaths.

EVERYTIME you segregate people you play the game of these psychopaths.

Fixed that for you

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Well it really all started:

http://www.crf-usa.org/america-resp...rom-1945-to-the-death-of-osama-bin-laden.html

I'd argue it started when Bush decided to invade Iraq which I think we can all agree, was a stupid decision.