Liberal indoctrination in universities?

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by Superbronx, May 9, 2019.

  1. zomborg

    zomborg Makin Temp great again

    Member
    4
    Apr 17, 2015
    United States
    No. 3: Conservatives and progressives have a different view of “We the People.”

    Whether it’s the Second Amendment, immigration, or putting limits on abortion, if we the people don’t pass laws progressives approve, they turn to judges, executive orders, and government bureaucrats behind closed doors to overturn the will of voters.

    Whatever one may think about the wisdom of hiking the minimum wage, banning plastic straws, or removing controversial historical monuments, conservatives believe voters closest to the issues should be the ones making such decisions for their communities—not lawmakers in Washington or a panel of judges fives states away.

    To sum it up, conservatives believe in individual rights, not special rights. Conservatives believe in allowing Texas to be Texas and Vermont to be Vermont. And conservatives believe we the people can vote with our feet about where we want to live and what laws we want to live under.
     
    CORE and Superbronx like this.
  2. cracker

    cracker Nyah!

    Member
    8
    Aug 24, 2005
    United States
    Exactly what I was getting at. It's like clumping everyone that believes in a god together. It lacks so much insight into the particular aspects of what each individual believes and tries to fit everyone into a binary (or very narrow) political stance.
     
    GreatCrippler likes this.
  3. GreatCrippler

    GreatCrippler Greatness Fallen

    Member
    6
    Mar 27, 2010
    United States
    Grand Junction, Colorado
    Two separate points here.

    M.A.G.A.: This has serious racist connotations. Not by design, but by evolution of perception. This was a simple campaign slogan. The problem is in who has adopted it, not the phrase itself. Redneck racists wear MAGA hats, and tell people to go back where they came from. It's just a simple phrase, but the connotation has definitely become negative, and racist. Certainly not universally, but it is a common perception of the phrase.


    Trump being racist: My personal opinion is that the only color the man specifically cares about is green. I don't know him, or his heart. He may be a racist, he may not be at all. Barring him coming out in a white hood, or dropping N-Bombs it's speculation.
     
    Ryccardo likes this.
  4. Xzi

    Xzi A terrible fate fills you with determination

    pip Contributor
    19
    Dec 26, 2013
    United States
    Spiraling Out
    He said racist, not anti-Semitic. It's quite clear to everyone that Trump is in full support of Netanyahu's Israel. Not that that's necessarily a good thing.

    Trump's also the one that started the entire bullshit birther campaign, and opened his campaign for president by talking for like half an hour about how terrible Mexican people are. He's not exactly been subtle about how much he dislikes brown people.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, May 13, 2019
  5. WD_GASTER2

    WD_GASTER2 I tinker and code.

    Member
    6
    Jun 17, 2018
    France
    if we replaced all the stuff EL Number 45 has said about minorities and he replaced it with "white people" the very same people that give him a free pass would be having mental breakdowns in anger.

    Also yes colleges tend to be more liberal but that is partially by design. Constantly trying to being exposed to new ideas and challenging old ones as opposed to encouraging long held beliefs is supposed to be the point of college.
     
    Last edited by WD_GASTER2, May 13, 2019
    Ryccardo likes this.
  6. Maluma

    Maluma GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    6
    Sep 26, 2016
    United States
    So in other words the media made up that MAGA is racist,and ignorant people passed on the message so that a large percentage of the populace believes that the MAGA slogan is racist.You can't just chose the meaning to a slogan that you did not create,the creator of the slogan gets to chose what their words meant.CNN does not get to decide what Donald Trumps words mean.

    Jews are not white.If you are anti-Semitic you are a racist.White supremacist hate Jews more than any other race of people,that is a fact and anyone that has actually researched the subject can attest to that.Saying Trump is racist is nothing more than a lie that ignorant people repeat.When said ignorant people are asked to cite examples of Trump being a racist, they can never actually produce an example.America needs to become a truly fair nation where everyone has equal opportunity.Liberals treating minorities like little kids is not conductive to that ideology.Instead of identity politics,everyone should embrace being an American first and foremost instead of identifying by their race.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Except that these aren't long held beliefs.Being a moral degenerate and justifying it has existed ever since the sky is blue.
     
    Ryccardo, Superbronx and zomborg like this.
  7. WD_GASTER2

    WD_GASTER2 I tinker and code.

    Member
    6
    Jun 17, 2018
    France
    Did you just call all liberals "Moral Degenerates"?
    damn dude i didnt know you knew me "A Liberal" so intimately.

    for the sake of discussion, what does it take to be a "Moral Degenerate"? it sounds subjective.
     
    Last edited by WD_GASTER2, May 13, 2019
  8. Maluma

    Maluma GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    6
    Sep 26, 2016
    United States
    Reread what I wrote.I never said all liberals were moral degenerates.
     
  9. Skelletonike

    Skelletonike ♂ ♥ Gallant Pervert ♥ ♀

    Member
    7
    GBAtemp Patron
    Skelletonike is a Patron of GBAtemp and is helping us stay independent!

    Our Patreon
    Dec 26, 2008
    Portugal
    Steam City
    Last year this BS movement was created at the university I frequent "He for She". An entirely BS movement that was loud and annoying and even though most people weren't in it's favour, they managed to get their complaints heard by the administration.
    Because of that total BS movement, my English class, which was the most advanced level in the university, and should be teaching useful stuff, became entirely pointless, focusing on bloody pronouns, how to avoid using he or she. The cherry on top was that we had to watch feminist movies and read feminist books and make our presentations based on that crap.

    Luckily the teacher was a good old fashioned Brit and had no problems with my trashing the books and films. Well, that kinda made me the black sheep of the class though...

    I still don't understand how the best university in my country can allow such BS movements to screw up the curriculum.
     
    Ryccardo, Superbronx and zomborg like this.
  10. Xzi

    Xzi A terrible fate fills you with determination

    pip Contributor
    19
    Dec 26, 2013
    United States
    Spiraling Out
    You're fucking kidding me, right? No examples? Trump literally has an entire Wikipedia page dedicated to the many examples of his racism:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump

    Not to mention I just gave you two very specific examples: his birther campaign against Obama (which he never admitted he was wrong about), and his announcement speech as a candidate for president. There's no way to justify this shit without being massively hypocritical.

    Never gonna happen as long as we continue to elect racist old fogeys with 1950s mentalities. Same reason we can't get anything squared away properly in the tech sector.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, May 13, 2019
  11. Maluma

    Maluma GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    6
    Sep 26, 2016
    United States
    The Wikipedia link is a perfect example of rhetoric,all it proves is that the founder of wikipedia is liberal(which they are,feel free to research).You can't just post a link from a blatantly biased source and spout it off as evidence that Trump is racist.

    Let's use common sense and reasoning here.Would a racist person let their daughter reproduce with a Jewish man and even have fond feelings for said man to the point where he serves in the administration?Would a racist man let his son marry a partially Jewish woman?Would a racist man let his other daughter(Tiffany Trump) date a Middle Eastern Brown man from Nigeria?Any man with common sense can answer these questions correctly.

    Xzi,are you of White European descent?
     
    CORE and zomborg like this.
  12. Ev1l0rd

    Ev1l0rd (⌐◥▶◀◤) Developer - noirscape

    Member
    10
    Oct 26, 2015
    Netherlands
    Site 19
    Firstly, the term "indoctrination" carries the fact that the question you are asking is gonna be a loaded one.

    If I say yes, you get the ability to say "look! the left is all about indoctrination!", if I say no, you get the ability to say "look! there is an inherent bias but it's not discrimination because I say so". It's an uneven playing field.

    The only way for me to properly acknowledge this? Outright deny the question it's merits on which it's asked.

    Here's the thing. Universities and specifically research and education published is, in and of itself, not automatically "liberal" or right wing or anything specific. It's purely data gathering and drawing conclusions from them and then publishing those in magazines for review for your peers and if it's peer reviewed, it's accepted (fun random fact: this entire process in and of itself is very exploitative due to the way these magazines work).

    That said, when you examine... well, literally any part of science, education or anything, it tends to be left leaning, simply because a lot of right wing arguments or anything aren't grounded in science, but are mostly based on a model[1] created in the 18th century in the wake of the French Revolution (which is where conservatism has it's roots) of how humanity acts and Christian religion.

    The issue is that religion has no grounding in universities when it comes to any serious research, and the model proposed by conservatism[1] is considered flawed by modern day standards and in a number of cases these days has actively run against things promoted by research.

    So... it's not that Universities are "indoctrinating liberal thinking", it's more that as we progress as a society and continue research into subjects, that we start to see the flaws that conservatism holds and how it has little grounding in what we understand about humanity today[2].

    As to why conservative thinking still persists (because if it's becoming increasinlgy ungrounded, a logical man would say that it should lose favor)? The thing is that... scientists and people with educations to this degree typically don't enter politics and if they do, they have a bad habit of refusing to speak in absolutes[3]. Combine that with the fact that in politics, those with the loudest voice get the most voters as opposed to those with meritorious arguments (and conservatives tend to be able to inflate this voice with money), and conservatism as an idea still exists and sadly will still be perpetuated[4].

    Sorry for kinda going off on a tangent here, but I really wanted to try my best to cover as much of the argument here as I can.

    [1]: This is a long argument but the short version is that conservatism is an attempt to maintain the classic "nobleman and servant" structure that was rampant before the 18th century, by sorting people with social status based on their income in classes. Coincidentally, the two original thinkers of conservatism and nearly all thinkers that helped define the ideas afterwards into what we know as conservatism today were either nobility or really in the upper class.
    [2]: Something which is often denied or put into muddied waters by conservatives who see this as a threat to their understanding of the world works or (in the case of those who benefit the most from conservatism) see this as a threat to their social position. Usually, these arguments tend to be flawed (ie. incorrectly drawing correlation with causation) or outright refusing to acknowledge a basic understanding of the idea proposed (ie. The Green New Deal, which maliciously was taken out of context and added upon by conservatives to slander it, while the actual plan was nearly nothing like the original idea). A large number of right wing think tanks rely on these two tricks.
    [3]: This is changing, but is still the reason a lot of pseudoscience tries to wedge its way in.
    [4]: As to why it'll persist in the next generation: YouTube and a number of anti-science content creators on said platform being the main reason. Core example being Sargon of Akkad, someone whose appeal/target age range is edgy teenagers and regularly spouts anti-science and outright inane view points. (Although he's currently under flak as well for suggesting that he'd rape an MP).

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view

    Wikipedia aims to have an as neutral possible POV, something which I'm both in favor and critical of. The being in favor part of it comes from the fact that it manages to properly show all sides of any argument. The not being in favor part is that it cares zero on someone's academic degrees in any subject, which causes academics to be forced to argue with JohnnyWithABigDick who totally believes that the moon landing was staged in Hollywood and that the earth is flat.

    Oh boi. Let's pick this one apart.

    First you need to understand that racists (or homophobes or transphobes or pick really your category of hateful thought) often see there to be two categories of whatever minority they despise. The "bad" ones and the "good" ones. The "good" ones are those who they see an anecdotal relationship with, either by introduction through friends and family or in some other form, and the "bad" ones who are literally everyone else. The racism part comes from the rethoric they use when talking about the "bad" ones.

    Secondly, humans aren't entirely logical beings. We have a word for that. It's called hypocrisy. Curiously, a lot of racists tend to be highly hypocritical.
     
    Last edited by Ev1l0rd, May 13, 2019
    Heichart, Codemastershock and cracker like this.
  13. Xzi

    Xzi A terrible fate fills you with determination

    pip Contributor
    19
    Dec 26, 2013
    United States
    Spiraling Out
    There are 223 sources in that Wikipedia article, it's largely irrelevant how you believe Wikipedia itself leans politically.

    Again, nobody said he's anti-Semitic or a Nazi, despite the fact that he does have some fascist tendencies. He's racist toward anyone of a darker skin tone. Jews are "white enough" for him. And Trump is oblivious to the fact that Tiffany even exists.
     
  14. Maluma

    Maluma GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    6
    Sep 26, 2016
    United States
    You picked nothing apart,you just completely ignored that I stated that the Wikipedia owners are strong liberals.The second part of your argument is preposterous,people pick good and bad people regardless of race.I understand perfectly well,you fail to understand that race has absolutely nothing to do with people deciding that certain people are good and certain people are bad.Race isn't even a factor in making this distinction.Racism is all about believing that one race is superior to another.People that are racist believe in racial purity and would NEVER want to have mixed grandchildren as it goes COMPLETELY against the ideology.How is this for picking your argument apart?

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    It's not what I believe.It is a fact that the founders of Wikipedia are liberals,you stating that it is my opinion is completely disingenuous of your part and downright dishonest.Have you actually researched people with racist beliefs or are you just going to parrot what you heard in a lecture or saw on CNN?You also never answered my question when I asked if you were of European descent.


    https://www.conservapedia.com/Examples_of_Bias_in_Wikipedia.
     
    Superbronx likes this.
  15. Ev1l0rd

    Ev1l0rd (⌐◥▶◀◤) Developer - noirscape

    Member
    10
    Oct 26, 2015
    Netherlands
    Site 19
    And linking a site called "Conservapedia" is an unbiased source?

    It's creator is a Young Earth Creationist and promotes right-wing extremist ideas and pseudosciene.

    The perceived "liberal bias" the site was founded on was because Wikipedia uses C.E (Common Era) as opposed to A.D. (Anno Domini). The site actively promotes creationism, is anti-sex education and supports anti-vaxx beliefs.

    I showed the part of their policy that is used to make sure that they don't let a bias involve their judgement of content. Specifically, Wikipedias policy is to outright refuse taking a stance at all on any kind of subject, preferring to attribute statements to people rather than specifying them as fact.

    And for a quick record, I quickly read through the references (aka sources list) of this article. I'm... mainly seeing accurate sources here.
     
    Xzi likes this.
  16. Maluma

    Maluma GBAtemp Advanced Fan

    Member
    6
    Sep 26, 2016
    United States
    There is liberal bias in wikipedia.I posted that link to show you that wikipedia has a liberal bias but you don't really need that link at all.You just need common sense which unfortunately is something that too many people lack these days.If you seriously believe that wikipedia isn't biased just because the owners stated that was the case,then I really can't say anything to convince you otherwise.If you really believe that there are humans that are unbiased,then I wish you the best in your life.Bottom line is that wikipedia is owned by strong liberals,I can't force you to accept this fact regardless of what I tell you.I'm not going to waste any more of my time trying to get you to accept that wikipedia has leftist bias.If you tell me the sky is red,I can't force you to believe the sky is blue.When all is said and done,you can't tell someone something that they don't want to hear.
     
    Superbronx likes this.
  17. Xzi

    Xzi A terrible fate fills you with determination

    pip Contributor
    19
    Dec 26, 2013
    United States
    Spiraling Out
    No, that's 100% what you believe. Anybody can edit Wikipedia, all they require is decent sourcing.

    No research is required to recognize racism, especially when it's as blatant as Trump's examples.

    Logically, if a conservative site is calling another site liberal, the latter site is more likely to be centrist.

    My family's ancestors came from all over, but yes, mostly Europe. And yes, I'm white. Not that it's relevant.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, May 13, 2019
  18. omgcat

    omgcat GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    3
    Feb 15, 2009
    United States
    unless both sides are really able to tackle accepting other worldviews, there won't be any logical discussion in this thread. As someone going to university in the bay area, you might assume that my college has a huge liberal bias, but honestly it comes right down to the professors and students. i have had professors from both sides of the political spectrum, from my hard core conservative US history professor (presidential greatness from 1800-1990 hist 200), to the hard core libertarian CS professor (computer architecture CS321, OOP CS331, discreet math for CS 341) to the hard core liberal (humans and sex bio 333, ceramics 1 ART100, operating systems CS441, Systems programming CS351, compiler design CS 310). almost all of the people i run into asking the question of whether universities are indoctrinating people into the left-wing haven't been to university themselves or are solely consuming one political side of information. one of the best classes i have taken so far in university was Ancient and medieval philosophy, my teacher was a mystic with a fantastic view of how to teach philosophy and religion. i wrote my paper specifically on Plato's allegory of the cave and how the media, our family, and tech search algorithms are sealing ourselves in a cave of misinformation, and once you are there, it can be painful to try and get out. i fear that far too many people on this forum have sealed themselves in a cave of ignorance and are struggling to get out.



    go look around on duckduckgo or any search engine that doesn't track your clicks and alters your search results based on previous searches and selections. google, yahoo, bing, ect, all track what you click and give you more of what you click(things that agree with your world view) and less of what you don't click(anything that goes against it). this is why most anti-vax and conspiracy theory users feel so certain about their position and information, because it envelops them without them knowing it. they get upset when presented opposing viewpoints.
     
    Heichart and Xzi like this.
  19. CORE

    CORE 3:16

    Member
    5
    Jul 15, 2018
    United Kingdom
    I like how this thread has become another Orange Man Bad Thread.

    However Oranges have good properties including Vitamin C.

    C. For Conservative :D

    F***sake you would find fault if he had a fear of Spiders STOP TRUMPS HATEFUL ARACHNOPHOBIA TOWARDS VENOMOUS SPIDERS.

    Wikipedia is full of it Trump racist for questioning Obamas Birth Certificate
    No it not about his Race or Skin Colour it his Citizenship.

    Dont forget to Add he eats @ McDonald's and cant hold a bottle of water properly.

    Liberal Liars as usual Twist Narratives and spin Hypocrisy they look in the mirror and pretend it a Conservative looking back at them.

    GodBless You All You Are So Lost.
     
    Last edited by CORE, May 13, 2019
    Superbronx likes this.
  20. Superbronx
    OP

    Superbronx GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    2
    Apr 30, 2019
    United States
    Mount Everwhite
    Hey, yes sorry, I've been away for a while. I meant to post more of the article I found in Boston magazine. It pretty much reads word for word what you posted. Even after you posted it, I'm not so sure anybody actually took the time to read and comprehend it.
    Now, after seeing all of the liberal side of things here in this thread, I've only noticed 2 or 3 members weighing in for the conservative side. Here's looking at you Maluma, zomborg and Core.

    One of the areas I think may be the source of the problems in today's world, especially in America, is that those who profess to be liberal or progressive are not. Let's take a look:


    What is Liberalism? Modern American Liberalism is not the same as classical (Jeffersonian) liberalism. In fact it is almost the exact opposite. Modern American liberalism is:
    1. The (mistaken) belief that the restriction of Individual Liberty and private property rights can improve society through government efforts to design and manage economic and social structures.
    2. The (mistaken) belief that a mob of men can better manage society than core values that protect the individual and his property and enforcement of laws that ensure equal protection of citizens while limiting government and allowing individuals to protect themselves.
    3. The (mistaken) belief that social safety nets imposed on the populace are more compassionate than allowing the individual freedom to fail (or succeed) from one’s life decisions.
    4. The (mistaken) belief that involuntary re-distribution of wealth is moral.

    Classical (Jeffersonian) Liberalism (Which is modern conservatism) is a belief in the superiority of the American core values:
    1. Individual Liberty
    2. The right to self protection
    3. The protection of private property rights
    4. Equal protection under the law
    5. Limited government (Self reliance)
     
    Last edited by Superbronx, May 13, 2019
    Skelletonike and zomborg like this.
Loading...