Hacking ktemkin drama

[V-Temp]

Too many assumptions here.

Facts:
This bug was discovered independently by many. It is not discovered only by Scires. So it's not his.
It is indeed inside many open source projects.
It's not a big bootrom bug but it has some very useful uses, which I will not name.
Also, this exploit was kept secret by everyone, for future use.
Hell, even hekate will use it at some point in the future.

Scires pointed this exploit to Kate. And Kate, assuming that it's OK (because it's everywhere), used it as a PoC to a completely different bug about Pixel C to google.
So, Kate is at fault (even though many discovered this) because she basically breached Scrire's trust (she pointed this out to Google without asking him).
(Scires was entitled to this exploit as far as RS is concerned. Because no-one pointed or communicated about this exploit. So every individual thought that this was their exploit. )

It could also provide a lot of money to anyone that wanted to report it (which now can't be done because it is burnt by accident). Of course not 200K$. Come on... max 10K$ (maybe waaay less).
But as I said, no-one wanted to burn it without the need.


Opinion:
Even though Kate is at fault, Scires reacting like this is not mature and he basically loses his right to be offended. This is what happens in the real world. You are the offended but you end up the offender.
So for me, they are both at fault here.
And that's why Re-switch is tearing apart. Because both behaviors were not right for a community and a team.

Can I ask, was this a lesser bug then FG then?

Seems that, either way, it was burned and will probably be fixed in the very near future.

 

[CTCaer]

Can I ask, was this a lesser bug then FG then?

Seems that, either way, it was burned and will probably be fixed in the very near future.

Yes it was a lesser bug.
F-G/Shofel2 is the ultimate exploit right now.

 

[V-Temp]

Yes it was a lesser bug.
F-G/Shofel2 is the ultimate exploit right now.

Thank-yee! Was curious to the impacts on the patched units but if its not as 'ultimate' as FG, and now also burned, then its a sort of a loss for nothing for the scene out of accidental misunderstandings compounding on top of one another.

 

[CTCaer]

Thank-yee! Was curious to the impacts on the patched units but if its not as 'ultimate' as FG, and now also burned, then its a sort of a loss for nothing for the scene out of accidental misunderstandings compounding on top of one another.

Well it might become or it already became (^^) an important bug for the future of Switch hacking scene.
Unfortunately, I can't get into details.

 

[Draxzelex]

*adds CTCaer's name to the list of trusted developers whom have avoided drama*
(please don't let us down)

 

[V-Temp]

Well it might become or it already became (^^) an important bug for the future of Switch hacking scene.
Unfortunately, I can't get into details.

No worries. I get the idea, and since FG got closed a new bug is obviously important (or even still important for old Switches). It just seems that it getting revealed/burned is what set this all off even though it wasn't actually intended to be revealed/burned.

And Nintendo/nVidia wee quick to fix FG, so this is now sure to follow.

 

[Chary]

*adds CTCaer's name to the list of trusted developers whom have avoided drama*
(please don't let us down)

Add them to the list of members you jinxed too now ;O;

 

[ByteBite]

Thanks for the clarification on the nature of this exploit, @CTCaer. Much appreciated.

 

[Quantumcat]

If people can't express their racist and trans-phobic thoughts then we don't have freedom of speech. The fact that there are more modded posts than pages in this thread is proof that we're heavily moderated over here.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to read a thread where people just hurl racial slurs at each other and I imagine neither do you, but lets not pretend we have freedom of speech in this thread.

No one is preventing you from discussing this topic. It just has to be discussed elsewhere - the Politics forum or a blog entry, for example.

 

[LightOffPro]

Too many assumptions here.

Facts:
This bug was discovered independently by many. It is not discovered only by Scires. So it's not his.
It is indeed inside many open source projects.
It's not a big bootrom bug but it has some very useful uses, which I will not name.
Also, this exploit was kept secret by everyone, for future use.
Hell, even hekate will use it at some point in the future.

Scires pointed this exploit to Kate. And Kate, assuming that it's OK (because it's everywhere), used it as a PoC to a completely different bug about Pixel C to google.
So, Kate is at fault (even though many discovered this) because she basically breached Scrire's trust (she pointed this out to Google without asking him).
(Scires was entitled to this exploit as far as RS is concerned. Because no-one pointed or communicated about this exploit. So every individual thought that this was their exploit. )

It could also provide a lot of money to anyone that wanted to report it (which now can't be done because it is burnt by accident). Of course not 200K$. Come on... max 10K$ (maybe waaay less).
But as I said, no-one wanted to burn it without the need.


Opinion:
Even though Kate is at fault, Scires reacting like this is not mature and he basically loses his right to be offended. This is what happens in the real world. You are the offended but you end up the offender.
So for me, they are both at fault here.
And that's why Re-switch is tearing apart. Because both behaviors were not right for a community and a team.

This pretty much says it all.

@CTCaer can you at least give out some hints on how you cannot go into detail about this "new" bug?
If F-G/Shofel2 is the ultimate exploit, what usefulness has this "lesser" one? Will this bug eventually be revealed to the public?

You are free not to answer this of course, i am just really curious.

 

[delete12345]

Thanks @CTCaer for the quick summary.

 

[V-Temp]

This pretty much says it all.

CTCaer can you at least give out some hints on how you cannot go into detail about this "new" bug?
If F-G/Shofel2 is the ultimate exploit, what usefulness has this "lesser" one? Will this bug eventually be revealed to the public?

You are free not to answer this of course, i am just really curious.

Well if FG is patched, and you still have a bug that give you *some* leverage on the system in the patched units, that's a good gain as you still have leverage. But from what I can tell no one expected it to get burned but it did, so now we'll probably see it pop up.

But it getting burned is still a loss as when that gets patched, then you can't do anything anymore from the bootloader angle.

Its still a step down from FG, so patched units are going to still be inferior even with this bug it seems, and who knows what you need for this bug to be useful.

 

[LightOffPro]

Well if FG is patched, and you still have a bug that give you *some* leverage on the system in the patched units, that's a good gain as you still have leverage. But from what I can tell no one expected it to get burned but it did, so now we'll probably see it pop up.

But it getting burned is still a loss as when that gets patched, then you can't do anything anymore from the bootloader angle.

Its still a step down from FG, so patched units are going to still be inferior even with this bug it seems, and who knows what you need for this bug to be useful.

Good point. Didn't thought of that!

 

[jimmyj]

i'm guessing that this exploit was basically the next fg and has now been killed by kate. GREAT

 

[Priyam]

Too many assumptions here.

Facts:
This bug was discovered independently by many. It is not discovered only by Scires. So it's not his.
It is indeed inside many open source projects.
It's not a big bootrom bug but it has some very useful uses, which I will not name.
Also, this exploit was kept secret by everyone, for future use.
Hell, even hekate will use it at some point in the future.

Scires pointed this exploit to Kate. And Kate, assuming that it's OK (because it's everywhere), used it as a PoC to a completely different bug about Pixel C to google.
So, Kate is at fault (even though many discovered this) because she basically breached Scrire's trust (she pointed this out to Google without asking him).
(Scires was entitled to this exploit as far as RS is concerned. Because no-one pointed or communicated about this exploit. So every individual thought that this was their exploit. )

It could also provide a lot of money to anyone that wanted to report it (which now can't be done because it is burnt by accident). Of course not 200K$. Come on... max 10K$ (maybe waaay less).
But as I said, no-one wanted to burn it without the need.


Opinion:
Even though Kate is at fault, Scires reacting like this is not mature and he basically loses his right to be offended. This is what happens in the real world. You are the offended but you end up the offender.
So for me, they are both at fault here.
And that's why Re-switch is tearing apart. Because both behaviors were not right for a community and a team.

Thank you, this should clear many doubts. Can I ask is deja vu still intact?

 

[V-Temp]

i'm guessing that this exploit was basically the next fg and has now been killed by kate. GREAT

Seemingly not the next FG. It was a quirk with some uses as opposed to FG which has ALL of the uses but it wasn't something on the level of what FG can/could do. We don't know what it enables, what conditions need to be met, and so on. For all we know, you needed to sacrifice a goat on the third full moon of the year for maximum benefit.

 

[delete12345]

i'm guessing that this exploit was basically the next fg and has now been killed by kate. GREAT

Hm? I had the impression this was a smaller exploit.

 

[jimmyj]

Seemingly not the next FG. It was a quirk but it wasn't something on the level of what FG can/could do. We don't know what it enables, what conditions need to be met, and so on. For all we know, you needed to sacrifice a goat on the third full moon of the year for maximum benefit.

thankfully I have a spare goat. /s tho I hope this doesn't get patched.

 

[V-Temp]

Hm? I had the impression this was a smaller exploit.

Yup. It may even need FG for full benefit, who knows.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

thankfully I have a spare goat. /s tho I hope this doesn't get patched.

100% will, now that its know.

 

[CTCaer]

*adds CTCaer's name to the list of trusted developers whom have avoided drama*
(please don't let us down)

I can't promise that. I'm human after all.
I normally wait when I have anger to die out and follow a more mature path.

This pretty much says it all.

@CTCaer can you at least give out some hints on how you cannot go into detail about this "new" bug?
If F-G/Shofel2 is the ultimate exploit, what usefulness has this "lesser" one? Will this bug eventually be revealed to the public?

You are free not to answer this of course, i am just really curious.

Sorry, I can't get into details. But you'll see news about it for sure.

i'm guessing that this exploit was basically the next fg and has now been killed by kate. GREAT

Well even though she's an extremely experienced and knowledgeable researcher, she made that mistake. She's human after all. ^^
Life's not good without mistakes, because you never learn.