Kim Jong Il has Died

[Celice]

but I do say, you all need to rethink good and bad. It is very dangerous not knowing the difference between the two. Freedom and equality will disappear soon after the ability to know right and wrong goes.

We should all reexamine ourselves critically whenever possible. This includes you, as you seem to have a staunch, stubborn view of what both should be.

 

[_Chaz_]

It seems that after a life of being the world's funniest dictator, he will be remembered. And to a couple, not at all because of murder.

 

[Uncle FEFL]

But yeah, I would say "RIP" but I really don't give a shit. Burn in hell ya sick bastard.

Personally, if someone tortures hundreds of thousands of people by making them starve and such, I don't mind at all if that person suffers.

Remind me again why you two are any different, if not worse, from a cruel dictator (philosophically)? Whether innocent or guilty, a humanitarian or tyrant, torture is a heinous punishment--especially one that is for eternity. To wish for any man to suffer is pretty cruel. If this is not your true opinion, then I suggest you control your emotions. If this is, I suggest you reevaluate what the value of life means to you. No one deserves to suffer, especially at the hands of others, no matter what they did.

There were two fronts in WWII,the Eastern and the Western. Without both Germany would not have been toppled. Don't forget Japanese involvement. To look at one slice of the war is the same tunnel vision....

This has got to be the most annoying assumption about WWII.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

Remind me again why you two are any different, if not worse, from a cruel dictator (philosophically)? Whether innocent or guilty, a humanitarian or tyrant, torture is a heinous punishment--especially one that is for eternity. To wish for any man to suffer is pretty cruel. If this is not your true opinion, then I suggest you control your emotions. If this is, I suggest you reevaluate what the value of life means to you. No one deserves to suffer, especially at the hands of others, no matter what they did.

What goes around comes around. I'm not a big fan of "WISHING PAIN ON ANYONE IS BAD" because I do wish pain on people such as this. If you're a religious sort, if someone commits "heinous" crimes such as Kim Jong Il did, why do they get a free pass from people like you since they're just "people" in the end? If I could get a religious free pass then I'd be fucking some shit up right now. If I was a religious person of course.

But I see nothing wrong with wishing the worst on people who deserve the worst. It's not like he was "misunderstood" or "complicated". He was a psychopath and a cruel tyrant.

 

[Veho]

Remind me again why you two are any different, if not worse, from a cruel dictator (philosophically)?

Philosophically, they are wishing torture and suffering to a horrible tyrant. Kim Jong Ill actually inflicted torture and suffering upon thousands of innocent people, and indirectly made the lives of millions more utter shit. I'd say there's a difference there.

 

[Elrinth]

How do you rike dat Hans Brix!

 

[taken]

Remind me again why you two are any different, if not worse, from a cruel dictator (philosophically)? Whether innocent or guilty, a humanitarian or tyrant, torture is a heinous punishment--especially one that is for eternity. To wish for any man to suffer is pretty cruel. If this is not your true opinion, then I suggest you control your emotions. If this is, I suggest you reevaluate what the value of life means to you. No one deserves to suffer, especially at the hands of others, no matter what they did.

What goes around comes around. I'm not a big fan of "WISHING PAIN ON ANYONE IS BAD" because I do wish pain on people such as this. If you're a religious sort, if someone commits "heinous" crimes such as Kim Jong Il did, why do they get a free pass from people like you since they're just "people" in the end? If I could get a religious free pass then I'd be fucking some shit up right now. If I was a religious person of course.

But I see nothing wrong with wishing the worst on people who deserve the worst. It's not like he was "misunderstood" or "complicated". He was a psychopath and a cruel tyrant.

His son is going to be the same, a psychopath and a cruel tyrant.

 

[Celice]

Remind me again why you two are any different, if not worse, from a cruel dictator (philosophically)? Whether innocent or guilty, a humanitarian or tyrant, torture is a heinous punishment--especially one that is for eternity. To wish for any man to suffer is pretty cruel. If this is not your true opinion, then I suggest you control your emotions. If this is, I suggest you reevaluate what the value of life means to you. No one deserves to suffer, especially at the hands of others, no matter what they did.

What goes around comes around. I'm not a big fan of "WISHING PAIN ON ANYONE IS BAD" because I do wish pain on people such as this. If you're a religious sort, if someone commits "heinous" crimes such as Kim Jong Il did, why do they get a free pass from people like you since they're just "people" in the end? If I could get a religious free pass then I'd be fucking some shit up right now. If I was a religious person of course.

But I see nothing wrong with wishing the worst on people who deserve the worst. It's not like he was "misunderstood" or "complicated". He was a psychopath and a cruel tyrant.

The problem is is when people wish the same harm on him (or anyone) that he exacted on other people. One laments the pain inflicted on others and wishes it was prevented--then they somehow accept and embrace that same horror and violence if it is applied to someone else (in this case, the originator). Somehow you go from saying how bad it is what one does, to wishing the very same on someone else.

 

[ferofax]

Oh, so that's why i'm so ronery...

 

[Uncle FEFL]

What goes around comes around. I'm not a big fan of "WISHING PAIN ON ANYONE IS BAD" because I do wish pain on people such as this. If you're a religious sort, if someone commits "heinous" crimes such as Kim Jong Il did, why do they get a free pass from people like you since they're just "people" in the end? If I could get a religious free pass then I'd be fucking some shit up right now. If I was a religious person of course.

But I see nothing wrong with wishing the worst on people who deserve the worst. It's not like he was "misunderstood" or "complicated". He was a psychopath and a cruel tyrant.

You don't understand. If you were to watch a video of a tyrant being tortured, how do you think you would react? Would you laugh at his pain? Would you sympathize? Would you like to be the one inflicting the suffering?

And if it were the tyrant torturing a "threatening" scientist?

No one is deserving of their life being taken away, especially through torture or other forms of punishment that inflict prolonged psychological and/or physical suffering. I think prisons should exist, but not as they are now (speaking for US prison system only).

I'm an atheist, if you were trying to imply that I am devoutly religious.

Philosophically, they are wishing torture and suffering to a horrible tyrant. Kim Jong Ill actually inflicted torture and suffering upon thousands of innocent people, and indirectly made the lives of millions more utter shit. I'd say there's a difference there.

I understand the difference in action, which is why I stated that I was only talking about philosophical differences. What truly separates people who wish to inflict pain to those that actually inflict pain? Given the opportunity, wouldn't those who wish to do it, do it? Just as those who actually did inflict suffering upon others?

 

[Foxi4]

Are you a Buddhist or anything of the sort?

 

[Uncle FEFL]

No. I merely dislike the suffering of life.

 

[Foxi4]

Interesting.

Well, it's hard to disagree that Mr.Kim here did alot of horrible stuff in his life and I can understand how some people would be delighted in seeing him suffer. Not that it has a point, people simply like the Tooth for Tooth rule since the dawn of time.

I'd much rather have criminals like this work till they die in work camps, but that's me - I'm a horrible person.

 

[Uncle FEFL]

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
--Mohandas Gandhi

The system you mention makes the problem perpetual. As history shows, compassion and sympathy for the fellow human species bring about great strides of enlightenment and social progress.

 

[amptor]

There were two fronts in WWII,the Eastern and the Western. Without both Germany would not have been toppled. Don't forget Japanese involvement. To look at one slice of the war is the same tunnel vision....

And to the last poster, don't forget your country was one of the votes in the 17 unanimous to go back into Iraq based on the Gulf War Armistice.

I aint going back and forth here anymore..but I do say, you all need to rethink good and bad. It is very dangerous not knowing the difference between the two. Freedom and equality will disappear soon after the ability to know right and wrong goes.

Stalin studied the fall of the Napoleon empire and thus was how he was able to defeat Germany.

Russia > * (power wise) and I'm not even Russian saying this. Russia, during WWII, possibly could have taken over the entire planet if they wanted to but Stalin knew better than that and just took what he got after the treaties were signed.

---

 

[Veho]

Philosophically, they are wishing torture and suffering to a horrible tyrant. Kim Jong Ill actually inflicted torture and suffering upon thousands of innocent people, and indirectly made the lives of millions more utter shit. I'd say there's a difference there.

I understand the difference in action, which is why I stated that I was only talking about philosophical differences. What truly separates people who wish to inflict pain to those that actually inflict pain? Given the opportunity, wouldn't those who wish to do it, do it? Just as those who actually did inflict suffering upon others?

Ah, but that's where the important distinction of who's receiving the torture comes into play. Let's rephrase that with just the intent in mind:

They are wishing torture and suffering to a vicious tyrant. Kim Jong Ill inflicted torture and suffering upon thousands of innocent people (and indirectly made the lives of millions more utter shit).

 

[Fat D]

Still, our modern understanding of ethics prohibits torture irrespective of that person's actions. He might have been a vicious tyrant and by no means innocent, but he was still a human.

 

[Uncle FEFL]

Ah, but that's where the important distinction of who's receiving the torture comes into play. Let's rephrase that with just the intent in mind:

They are wishing torture and suffering to a vicious tyrant. Kim Jong Ill inflicted torture and suffering upon thousands of innocent people (and indirectly made the lives of millions more utter shit).

There's some things I would like to ask you:

* What will torturing the tyrant solve? Will it bring back the lives of those he killed? Will it fill the stomachs of the the people he is starving? Will it end the conflicts that he has began? Will it allow social progress to take place once more? Will it restore the destroyed cities? Will it make him beg for forgiveness? And what does that solve, in effect?

* Is there really no other solution to defeat a tyrant than to make him suffer? Is that even a solution?

The fact is, making the tyrant suffer solves nothing--it only allows the observer to stimulate his/her sadistic feelings, and if they truly enjoy watching the tyrant suffer, then philosophically, they aren't very different from the tyrant. They both want their enemies to suffer hopelessly. The tyrant just had the power, and therefore the opportunity, to do so on a large scale.

 

[Giga_Gaia]

Still, our modern understanding of ethics prohibits torture irrespective of that person's actions. He might have been a vicious tyrant and by no means innocent, but he was still a human.

No, a person like that can only be considered a monster and therefore has no rights.

Oh by the way, they should kill his son after making him watch everyone he loves scream and die.

 

[Foxi4]

Still, our modern understanding of ethics prohibits torture irrespective of that person's actions. He might have been a vicious tyrant and by no means innocent, but he was still a human.

No, a person like that can only be considered a monster and therefore has no rights.

Oh by the way, they should kill his son after making him watch everyone he loves scream and die.

...and his son is guilty of what and how?