Is This The Beginning of The End of Homebrewing/Pirating?

[iggloovortex]

http://exophase.com/21266/sony-wants-to-su...gal-crosshairs/

As most of us should know as avid Homebrewers as such, Sony recently went up against a legal battle with the famed geohot. This somewhat resulted as a win for Sony, as he was made to deliver all his hacking tools and software and such up to a impounding place for a Temporary Restraining Order. geohot is fighting against it currently, but we have yet to find out the results.

And as if that win wasnt bad enough, Sony is now trying to remove all information websites and even videos from youtube that were, and will be made to help people along with their efforts. The sites targeted, if Sony wins, will have to relinquish all server logs, ip address logs and other information, which will then be used to track the major hackers who have made efforts on the PS3 of any kind. This includes our own Waninkoko as well.

So if this all happens, lets say in the next month or 3, and all the hackers and related websites are shut down, Sony wins, and in the end, We All Lose. After that, whos to stop Nintendo and Microsoft from cracking down in the same way? Resulting in the loss of the Microsoft Sites, and maybe possibly even our own beloved GBATemp. . .

If Sony wins, the whole way we go about our internet lives could change in the long term, and tempers, ill be completely honest with you. Im scared. . . I'm legitimately scared. Lets say they decide to go further out into using the ip address logs and such to track us individually, and while not necessarily confiscating our shit, but being able to put a large fine on us for homebrewing/pirating. This would affect me personally as the reason i pirate in the first place is due to the fact that my family doesnt have enough money to spend $100+ a month on video games.

So Lets begin this discussion:
A) How do you feel about Sony's actions, do you agree or disagree?
B) Do you think the other gaming & software companies will begin to do the same?
C) Will you be affected personally by the possible future?
D) Are you scared too? Not necessarily by the same things i am, but about the situation as a whole.

 

[Paralys]

To be honest, anyone who's even slightly worried about the end of Hacking/Modding/Homebrew/Piracy just because a company tries to crack down obviously hasn't been online long enough. Things like this and worse happen constantly and the warez/modding communities stay alive through them. Certain torrent sites (something about pirates that live in a bay or the ability to "hunt" for iso's) have felt incredible pressure from the law but continue to operate with new ones cropping up every day.

Operation Fastlink has busted nearly 100 people (specifically a number of Echelon and Kalisto members) but I assure you that if you look hard enough you'll still find PLENTY of PS2 and Dreamcast ISO's out there. The way you really need to think about it is like this: Your neighborhood probably has police, but will you ever feel safe enough to leave your car doors standing open in a parking lot? Just because the law is enforced and a company cracks down on these things doesn't mean that there's not a plethora of other people who will step up to take their place. So in the end, no worries. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo can put as much heat on the scene as they want to, but we'll all still wake up and download our ROMs, homebrew, and all that other good stuff in the morning.

 

[KingAsix]

To be honest, anyone who's even slightly worried about the end of Hacking/Modding/Homebrew/Piracy just because a company tries to crack down obviously hasn't been online long enough. Things like this and worse happen constantly and the warez/modding communities stay alive through them. Certain torrent sites (something about pirates that live in a bay or the ability to "hunt" for iso's) have felt incredible pressure from the law but continue to operate with new ones cropping up every day.

Operation Fastlink has busted nearly 100 people (specifically a number of Echelon and Kalisto members) but I assure you that if you look hard enough you'll still find PLENTY of PS2 and Dreamcast ISO's out there. The way you really need to think about it is like this: Your neighborhood probably has police, but will you ever feel safe enough to leave your car doors standing open in a parking lot? Just because the law is enforced and a company cracks down on these things doesn't mean that there's not a plethora of other people who will step up to take their place. So in the end, no worries. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo can put as much heat on the scene as they want to, but we'll all still wake up and download our ROMs, homebrew, and all that other good stuff in the morning.

Nicely put my friend. I was thinking the same thing...(just in less words)

 

[iggloovortex]

you make a valid point. and while i will admit i havent been exposed to this level of crackdown beforehand, im looking at the pessimistic side, like WHAT IF Sony and the others actually do manage to track us all back from ip address logs and while not necessarily arrest us, they could fine us. i dont think that it has reached that level before where the mass was being penalized along with the individuals.

 

[SmokeFox]

A) Well, the law is the law, and if Sony or other company can sue someone they are going to sue, just because they can, its hard to say if i agree or disagree, because its the law, and not following the rules are not right.
B)I really dont think so, its Sony style to do this, If Nintendo or other company wanted to do that they had were, the AP is one example of that, they know that hackers exists but they can do better then these easy AP.
C)I guess that yes, because if SOny begin to sue everyone and keep winning the actions, it will supress the hackers to show they development, but they can do the hackl and release on the web without showing who they are.
D)I am not scared, never. I fear for my freedom to hack and make inventions to make the community run better.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

To stop hackers is like to try and stop the sun from being hot. It's never going to happen. Sony can try all they want. There are tons of ways people can hack their console and share it underground. Sony is trying to control the internet, and if they piss off the wrong hackers, they're going to feel a backlash.

but being able to put a large fine on us for homebrewing

Impossible. Homebrewing is NOT illegal.

 

[Sterling]

To stop hackers is like to try and stop the sun from being hot. It's never going to happen. Sony can try all they want. There are tons of ways people can hack their console and share it underground. Sony is trying to control the internet, and if they piss off the wrong hackers, they're going to feel a backlash.

but being able to put a large fine on us for homebrewing

Impossible. Homebrewing is NOT illegal.

It's just there are restrictions and stuff on how much alcoholic content can be in a homebrew. Also, depending on the state, you can't sell your brew unless you have a license and you're subject to taxes as well.

 

[monkat]

It's just there are restrictions and stuff on how much alcoholic content can be in a homebrew. Also, depending on the state, you can't sell your brew unless you have a license and you're subject to taxes as well.

minor pun

 

[mysticwaterfall]

Because you know, the RIAA and MPAA lawsuits against thousands of people certainly put an end to illegal music and movie downloading. Oh wait...

+1 to Paralys. Sony can grandstand all it wants, but it's not going to change anything. If anything, it makes the problem worse for them by pissing people off. But Sony has never really been a company to learn from history.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

To stop hackers is like to try and stop the sun from being hot. It's never going to happen. Sony can try all they want. There are tons of ways people can hack their console and share it underground. Sony is trying to control the internet, and if they piss off the wrong hackers, they're going to feel a backlash.

but being able to put a large fine on us for homebrewing

Impossible. Homebrewing is NOT illegal.

It's just there are restrictions and stuff on how much alcoholic content can be in a homebrew. Also, depending on the state, you can't sell your brew unless you have a license and you're subject to taxes as well.

Last I checked, in Canada, no such rules apply. You can make your homebrew as whatever you want it to be (as long as it doesn't cross any copyright infringements obviously), and you can sell it or do whatever you want with it.

Want to accept paypal cash for a download link? No problem. Want to make it a full fledge game and give it out for free or offer to sell it? No problem.

Big reason why flashcards aren't illegal in Canada, because you can do more than just pirate stuff on them. Judges look at it as, being able to back up your stuff so you don't carry around a clutter, and you can do more with it ala mp3, pictures, movies....

 

[Paralys]

WHAT IF Sony and the others actually do manage to track us all back from ip address logs and while not necessarily arrest us, they could fine us. i dont think that it has reached that level before where the mass was being penalized along with the individuals.

That's not really something that you have to be worried about. Warez aren't treated like drugs, usually only the release groups are targeted and certain prominent individuals in the community (geohot), so if you don't have a lot of status, then it's not really worth their time to go after you since there's a million more like you.

Also, most torrent sites iirc send their logs to /dev/null (thus they aren't kept anyway) and even if they do decide to keep logs, then Sony would have to sue them for said logs, in which case if you look at situations like "that bay with the pirates" that I mentioned earlier, then they usually aren't successful since they're outside of their jurisdiction. If they are successful then at most they're only going to pull the file and maybe poke through the logs before getting rid of them themselves.

And even with all of that considered, even if they did sue you, you couldn't pay the fines. Nor could most of the other people if their families don't have enough to buy a video game. Thus the cost of Sony's lawyers > The money they'd win from a million court cases. They'd effectively make themselves bankrupt trying to sue everyone, and that's not even taking into account the cases they may lose. So you can sleep easy on that.

Argentum VirIt's just there are restrictions and stuff on how much alcoholic content can be in a homebrew. Also, depending on the state, you can't sell your brew unless you have a license and you're subject to taxes as well.

You are my new favorite person

 

[Guild McCommunist]

HOLY SHIT GET THE CANS MARGARET AND HEAD TO THE BUNKER THE END OF DAYS IS UPON US.

Piracy will die when the internet dies or when freewill is killed. No amount of restraining orders or cease and desists will stop piracy. If one site's taken down with hacks on it, then another will pop up.

 

[Slyakin]

I'm not scared. Sony doesn't have that much power. They may have the law on their side, but the internet isn't an open log book. Things are private, and only in few cases can things get REALLY personal.

 

[iggloovortex]

off topic: i feel special. SS, Monkat and Guild all commented in my thread, all i need now is Costello then i can be popular!

I see where most of you are saying that there isnt anything to worry about for homebrew, so lets switch over to the piracy side of it. This site is seen as a piracy forum simply because a large majority of Tempers pirate, while the site itself hosts tutorials and such to help those aspiring. Nintendo following in Sony's footsteps would target us simply because of the information we hold.

*snip*But Sony has never really been a company to learn from history.

Anyone care to elaborate? im a nub when it comes to old news

 

[SmokeFox]

off topic: i feel special. SS, Monkat and Guild all commented in my thread, all i need now is Costello then i can be popular!

I see where most of you are saying that there isnt anything to worry about for homebrew, so lets switch over to the piracy side of it. This site is seen as a piracy forum simply because a large majority of Tempers pirate, while the site itself hosts tutorials and such to help those aspiring. Nintendo following in Sony's footsteps would target us simply because of the information we hold.

*snip*But Sony has never really been a company to learn from history.

Anyone care to elaborate? im a nub when it comes to old news

Wait a second, are you telling me that is a big deal having these guys commenting in your post? What for? You are never going to meet them;

 

[iggloovortex]

i know lol. but they are considered some of the big names of the temp. i discovered in my years as a lurker

EDIT: We should get back on topic

 

[Sterling]

off topic: i feel special. SS, Monkat and Guild all commented in my thread, all i need now is Costello then i can be popular!

I see where most of you are saying that there isnt anything to worry about for homebrew, so lets switch over to the piracy side of it. This site is seen as a piracy forum simply because a large majority of Tempers pirate, while the site itself hosts tutorials and such to help those aspiring. Nintendo following in Sony's footsteps would target us simply because of the information we hold.

*snip*But Sony has never really been a company to learn from history.

Anyone care to elaborate? im a nub when it comes to old news

They have a history of piracy on their consoles, and a history of bad handling.

 

[FAST6191]

Other people have said good things

My opinion

End of it all- not a chance, this feels more like the twice a decade "you guys are getting a bit too big for your boots" routine.

 

[Osaka]

I hear that these hacks for PS3 is causing alot of cheating... If it is I would rather see them go away >.>; I hate cheating o:

What I want to know is whats so good about homebrew? why not just make games for the computer so anyone can play them?

wouldn't it be easier and better if made for computer? o:

 

[ShadowSoldier]

i know lol. but they are considered some of the big names of the temp. i discovered in my years as a lurker

EDIT: We should get back on topic

You're overselling me. I am definitely NOT one of the "big names" of the temp.