Let's say I manage to find an exploit on the Switch that allows me to boot the Homebrew launcher and release it to the public. Is this illegal ? Can Nintendo take me to court ?
Is it illegal to hack consoles and release exploits to the public ?
- Thread starter antiNT
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Depends.
Usually hackers disclose the exploit with Nintendo so that Nintendo has time to fix the issue.
If it was truly illegal then no exploits would've been released like they are now.
Usually hackers disclose the exploit with Nintendo so that Nintendo has time to fix the issue.
If it was truly illegal then no exploits would've been released like they are now.
I understand this but you can't sue someone for doing something legal. Hence the question, is it illegal ?
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But if it's legal then you don't have to disclose anything because you know, it's not against the law.
No! You own the device and it is your god given right to install any software you want on it and do any modifications to the device. Imagine if the company you bought your car from said you could modify or fix it, or if your computer manufacturer stop you installing anything but windows.
Thats why I said, depends.
A userland exploit does less damage then a kernel one.
I'm no top tier console hacker so I wouldn't know it ;p
I guess you're better off asking MrNBAyoh or zoogie or smealum for such things.
Depending on what you want to know.
It depends on the country you are in. The DMCA appears to make it illegal. But in court you would be allowed to propose a defense and the court could side with you, which Nintendo may not want to risk suing you.
Other people have released exploits for free, after disclosing it first & have not been sued.
If you try to make money out of the exploit then it could become criminal and you could end up being arrested, like TX.
You are asking the wrong people. Try ask hackers like MrNBAyoh or zoogie or smealum because they knows more and they know better than we are.
From my reading of the leak, Nintendo seems to try the cooperative route first, but if that completely fails, then they are likely to go down with filing a criminal complaint, using whatever laws apply to the person in their country of residence. In essence, the end goal is if possible, prevent the exploit from being released if at all possible, until they have had a chance to fix it.
Are they legal types as well as accomplished code botherers? I have spoke to a few of those and while they generally have the learned by osmosis legal knowledge you get from hanging around in these sorts of circles I did not get the impression they doubled up.
Anyway as above various jurisdictions have various rules on what you are allowed to do.
The baseline for most places is "your device, your rules" and "consoles are just an arrangement of chips". Even without that you get phrases like "substantial non infringing uses" that govern how some courts thing.
However in the US we have various exceptions to that in the form of the DMCA that makes it dubious to bypass technological protections, even if they are fig leaf strong. There are exemptions to it but game consoles* are not explicitly but by exclusion of all else (hack cars, hack phones, hack your computer, to do various things** and all good, seem to take every step to not include game consoles though).
Elsewhere in the world might have more to say here but we rarely see any kind of case. Mod chips occasionally get banned, though most cases you ever see are for people that also load up hard drives/DVDs full of games to send along with them (even if just about every press statement will focus almost entirely on the installing mod chip part of the case where if you read the court transcripts and sentencing parts then it will be the ROMs they care about).
*do bear in mind for purposes of import regulations some of what we know as consoles were PCs (the PS2 was this, though most were probably more familiar with the PS3). Whether we end up with tomato is a vegetable ( https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/149/304/ ), pizza is a vegetable ( https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/pizza-is-a-vegetable ), poker is a sport ( https://tingenwilliams.com/2015/video-games-sport-immigration-law/3904 )... type setups I don't know.
**when I say various things there are limits still, not just "you can do homebrew all you want". https://itlaw.wikia.org/wiki/DMCA_Exemptions_to_the_Prohibition_on_Circumvention is a reasonable start.
You do also have the bigger lawyer collection problem.
Lawyers cost more than your rent to talk to them for a couple of hours, if they have to drag their arses to court to say your honor/worship/Monsieur le président my client is innocent then that rises considerably. Nintendo have likely a team in the company and probably enough money to make an example of all of us in the thread using outside firms and call it a rounding error for their annual budget.
Sony quite famously did this against Bleem -- emulation was never really in question, burying them in lawyer bills however was very effective.
A lot of what was covered above is also more of a defence you get to make in court rather than something that necessarily gets it thrown out before it gets there (technically some of it might if some kind of summary judgment is sought but Nintendo's lawyers will probably not be that stupid and drag things out to the next stage if they want to).
Short version. Your lawyer/solicitor/barrister/whatever is likely ethically bound not to tell you how to dodge the law. However if pressed then keep quiet until it is built out, if you need testers make them trusted, release it anonymous, maybe have a few encrypted archives to dodge automated detection (even with password in NFO/file name) and blast it wide when you do so they can't take it down fast enough. Keep said NFO anonymous (writing styles can be quite distinct), resist the temptation to claim ownership/authorship, try to avoid suspicious timings (if you rock up with a nice use for it 1 hour after the initial release then yeah), use a VPN you paid cash for via an unsecure hotspot without CCTV nearby.
I think there's a lot to be said for anonymous releases, although often ego's and other things get in the way of that
If you have something good which you want to share but are somewhat worried about the consequences drop it anonymously, take a leaf out of the giga-leak's book
If you have something good which you want to share but are somewhat worried about the consequences drop it anonymously, take a leaf out of the giga-leak's book
The topic of console hacking is directly related to you resident country 's laws, in some places might be illegal in other are not.
at least here in Italy, A very Capitalist country, we use to get ownership once we purchase the Switch and we can do whatever we want.
You can also release the exploit to public without getting sued if the source codes don't contain any stolen ones, for example TXOS won't be hunted down by NINTENDO as soon as they operate in China, but if they move to USA then we all knew what happened
But the most important point that crackers are fully aware of Nintondo/$ony are willing to pay for any exploits/flaws whatever they are able to find.
Then THE POINT is why bother release the hacks to those STINGY PIRATES for free when you can get paid? Smart crackers usually signed exclusive deal with said companies that they will release the exploit to public domain months or even years after their exclusive deal expires.
Last edited by leon315,
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