Hacking Has 'N' given up on the wii?

[XFlak]

Some1 correct me if I'm wrong, but (with the exception of Smash Stack) can't all the exploits that work on 4.3 be neutralized using the same method that prevented the twilight hack from working when SM3.5 was released (I think it was 3.5)? I mean, can't ninty just copy and paste some code (changing title ID or w/e) to prevent users from copying the exploit save games from an SD card to the Wii?

From what I've heard, it's not impossible for them to block smash stack either, but that would involve a fair amount of work, which is why I doubt we'll see that exploit disappear. But I think all the other exploits should be really simple for big N to block, so I wouldn't be too surprised to see another update blocking all existing exploits with the exception of Smash Stack.

 

[WiiPower]

Yeah, those savegames exploits should be blockable quite easy. To block them, so they don't come back, like the twilight hack did, might a bit more complicated, but might be doable for them. Since you can insert the sd card with the exploit after booting SSBB, they need to insert a fix either into the game or the IOS. They haven't patched any games yet via software, and fixing this from the IOS is a bit messy.

If there's an update coming, i only expect them to fix half of the savegame exploits if they fix anything at all.

 

[SifJar]

Yes XFlak, all the other current exploits can be blocked simply by Nintendo adding a couple of title IDs to the black list. And I think 3.4 was the first SM to block Twilight Hack, but then 4.0 was the first to do it properly (3.4 was worked around very quickly). 3.5 was a Korean only System Menu, pretty sure it had no exploit blocks.

Also, I believe Smash Stack would not be possible to be blocked. The best Nintendo could do is patch it in memory before loading, like something like Gecko OS does, right? But the memory is cleared when loading the VC demo games, so you'd just have to load one of them, return to the game, with the patch now cleared from memory, and launch the exploit. (Not 100% sure about this, just repeating what I have heard from more knowledgeable people. It was either giantpune or teuidj that said this IIRC, and they're both pretty clever).

As for whether Nintendo release an update? Meh. The update system in the Wii is severely flawed IMO. The fact that IOS and System Menu are separate, and each IOS is separate, and none of these things rely on each other is enough to ensure it is ridiculously easy to keep old, exploitable IOS when updating (all that is ever truly necessary to run the latest SM is the SM itself and the SM IOS - all the rest is optional). The only IOS you need to install are those that games you have use. You can easily update channels, IOS, SM and other components manually with dop-Mii, essentially allowing you to selectively choose which parts of an update you want and which you don't. With recent versions of dop-Mii, you can auto-install Priiloader after updating SM, meaning you can boot into a SM with patches defeating any exploit prevention etc. immediately. If you keep one exploitable IOS, you can easily install cIOS. If you can get HBC (again, this can be kept via a Priiloader patch), you can install cIOS (via HW_AHBPROT). If you have BootMii (unless Nintendo update boot2 again, it'll stay), you can install HBC via the MINI HackMii Installer, and you can install cIOS. And if you can install cIOS, you can pirate. And if an update doesn't prevent piracy, it is pointless to Nintendo. At this point, there is no need for adding extra features (sales are fine, and at this point, new features are unlikely to cause huge sales spikes). If Nintendo do release an update, it'll be to block most of the current exploits, mainly for appearances sakes.

 

[XFlak]

If there's an update coming, i only expect them to fix half of the savegame exploits if they fix anything at all.Yea, I kinda doubt they'll put out any more updates, just a gut feeling. I mean, it took 2 updates to get the twilight hack blocked... its unrealistic of them to think they can block 5 savegame exploits in one update even if they wanted to... so why bother trying and wasting their time\resources, right?

QUOTE(SifJar @ May 18 2011, 08:43 PM) Also, I believe Smash Stack would not be possible to be blocked. The best Nintendo could do is patch it in memory before loading, like something like Gecko OS does, right? But the memory is cleared when loading the VC demo games, so you'd just have to load one of them, return to the game, with the patch now cleared from memory, and launch the exploit. (Not 100% sure about this, just repeating what I have heard from more knowledgeable people. It was either giantpune or teuidj that said this IIRC, and they're both pretty clever).

It's funny you say that, the only reason I thought it is possible for ninty to fix the smashstack exploit is because giantpune told me so, but he also said it would take a lot of work. In either case, I think its good bet that the smash stack exploit will remain operable throughout the Wii's lifespan.

 

[WiiPower]

[...]
Also, I believe Smash Stack would not be possible to be blocked. The best Nintendo could do is patch it in memory before loading, like something like Gecko OS does, right? But the memory is cleared when loading the VC demo games, so you'd just have to load one of them, return to the game, with the patch now cleared from memory, and launch the exploit. (Not 100% sure about this, just repeating what I have heard from more knowledgeable people. It was either giantpune or teuidj that said this IIRC, and they're both pretty clever).
[...]

Hmm, do PAL and NTSC versions have the demos? I think there was some difference, but i'm not sure. Anyways, you are right, patching the game in memory is pointless if there's a demo you can boot. This should get the IOS to be reloaded(2x actually), as well as the game's main.dol. But patching this via the IOS is still possible, but messy. How much work it would be, i don't know. They would have to ensure that all games that use IOS36 still work fine with their patch, whatever they would do.

 

[Hells Guardian]

besides we bypassed every fw update on the wii with a modified fw or a modified sm installer with in days of a system menu release Ninty is more focused on Project cafe and my guess it will be strrong security like the ps3 "was" the ap on that thing might be too difficult for our current hacking tools

The PS3 security was strong but thats not why it remained unhacked for so long. It remained unhacked for so long because we could already run unsigned code on it through OtherOS but when sony got rid of that feature homebrewers were upset and began working on solutions to make it possible again. the security isn't weak but clearly Sony made a fatal mistake. Either way It's impossible to speculate how or when the "Wii 2" will be hacked However I can safely say that it's very likely that there will never be a game system produced by Nintendo that isn't hacked.

I would say that using a security system where a "random" number is the same number every time is pretty weak man. That most likely could have been found a while back, just no one was really looking.

Agreed, the PS3 only had the illusion of security. Once people started investigating it was clear how poorly designed the security was. Even now, the only reason that current firmwares haven't been hacked is that the people who have broken FW3.60 haven't shared that info out of fear of lawsuits.

On topic: I do believe that nintendo no longer cares about security on the wii. They may make some half-assed effort when Skyward Sword is released, but circumventing it will take a few days/weeks at most.

I have to disagree. the system security was actually quite strong it was a mistake made on sony's part that made the hack this easy. Security systems often fail because of implementation errors that allow a hacker to either bypass or crack the signing (More often Bypassing it) such as the one that cracked the PS3. If not for there mistake Sony's PS3 would have been a bit more difficult to crack....


As for an update even if we do see an update anytime soon I doubt it will be able to stop all exploits.

 

[ThatDudeWithTheFood]

I'd say it has one more update left in it.

Probably nothing significant at all but still.

 

[SifJar]

[...]
Also, I believe Smash Stack would not be possible to be blocked. The best Nintendo could do is patch it in memory before loading, like something like Gecko OS does, right? But the memory is cleared when loading the VC demo games, so you'd just have to load one of them, return to the game, with the patch now cleared from memory, and launch the exploit. (Not 100% sure about this, just repeating what I have heard from more knowledgeable people. It was either giantpune or teuidj that said this IIRC, and they're both pretty clever).
[...]

Hmm, do PAL and NTSC versions have the demos? I think there was some difference, but i'm not sure. Anyways, you are right, patching the game in memory is pointless if there's a demo you can boot. This should get the IOS to be reloaded(2x actually), as well as the game's main.dol. But patching this via the IOS is still possible, but messy. How much work it would be, i don't know. They would have to ensure that all games that use IOS36 still work fine with their patch, whatever they would do.

PAL certainly does, that's the one I have. Dunno about NTSC but I would presume so. Europe rarely gets anything USA doesn't.

 

[mauifrog]

Couldn't the system menu install a SSBB savefile that prevented the exploit, a savefile with a non deletable stages. The system menu could add this savefile or stages to a savefile every time it loaded SSBB, from SM and RM perhaps.

If would be simpler if the system menu simply checked the TMD of say ios254 and 250 at system boot. If the signature is not proper give a nasty error, say error 666 and fail to boot the system menu.

 

[XFlak]

boy am I glad u don't work for nintendo, lol

 

[CarbonX13]

They might push one more out at most, likely extending 3DS connectivity with the Wii. Other than that, probably not much they can add.

 

[WiiPower]

Couldn't the system menu install a SSBB savefile that prevented the exploit, a savefile with a non deletable stages. The system menu could add this savefile or stages to a savefile every time it loaded SSBB, from SM and RM perhaps.

If would be simpler if the system menu simply checked the TMD of say ios254 and 250 at system boot. If the signature is not proper give a nasty error, say error 666 and fail to boot the system menu.

I don't think they can add the ability to check stages with a savegame. But an undeletable stage might be possible, i don't know enough about the stages of SSBB to say something about that. But as long as it's a fixed stage that is always the same, the exploit could be updated to be used for this one too. If that stage would contain some random data and maybe have a random size, that would make things be difficult.

 

[KirovAir]

They probably release some vitality sensor IOS update, and maybe some weak AP fixes.

I find it kinda frustrating that developers always leave the full potential from a console. For example, the Wii has proven to be quite a good mediaplayer (WiiMC). Still, they didn't made any effort to add something like that in the system menu.

 

[Foxi4]

They probably release some vitality sensor IOS update, and maybe some weak AP fixes.

I find it kinda frustrating that developers always leave the full potential from a console. For example, the Wii has proven to be quite a good mediaplayer (WiiMC). Still, they didn't made any effort to add something like that in the system menu.

If by good you mean average than yes, they left it untouched.

Let's face it, the Wii's no dynamite. I have one, most humans have one. The Wii had its success, it was uninteresting for developers, let's just allow it to die peacefuly and prepare for Wii2.

Don't get me wrong - I like the Wii. I just think it's life-cycle ended... a year ago? I'd say we'll get an IOS update when the Vitality Sensor's out (if it's not canned yet) but that's just about it. I hope that the WiiMotes/WiiMotes Plus will be compatible with their next console, I actually *like* those controllers - dividing the controller into two separate pieces is absolutely brilliant IMO, and if the Gyro's were like the ones in Plus, it's be even more of a success than it was. I *still* think that a WiiMote with a Motion Plus add-on and a wireless nunchuck is *better* than a PS Move set thanks to the off-hand gyro which is missing in the Move as far as I know.

 

[Rydian]

Yeah if I was a programmer I wouldn't have any interest in the Wii. Nothing it has has been "new" for a year or two.

 

[Hielkenator]

I think Nintendo doesn't care about Wii anymore they've milked that cash cow almost dry, they just don't care.

Zelda is still coming and Xenoblade.

 

[DeadlyFoez]

I have my doubts that Zelda will come out for the Wii. I bet they will just make it for their next system since it is so close. It's not like that them releasing Zelda for the wii will cause anyone to go out and buy a wii at this point, but them releasing Zelda for their next console will certainly help drive up sales right away and it will help for that console to have a good opening line up of games.... unlike what they did with the 3DS.

 

[ilman]

@Deadlyfoez
Remember when they released twilight princess. It was both for their old and new console.
I don't see why wii won't get it.

 

[WiiPower]

@Deadlyfoez
Remember when they released twilight princess. It was both for their old and new console.
I don't see why wii won't get it.

I think i heard that Skyward Sword is to be released after Ocarina of Time for 3DS(still June?). To me this sounds like an autumn or christmas release. And the Wii 2 will be released April 2012 or later.

All in all, i "fear" that Skyward Sword will get the same treatment as Twilight Princess, and i doubt it will be a Wii 2 exclusive release.

PS: What is the most re-released game of all? Ocarina of Time has a N64, gamecube, wii and 3ds release, which game has more?

 

[Hero-Link]

PS: What is the most re-released game of all? Ocarina of Time has a N64, gamecube, wii and 3ds release, which game has more?

Resident Evil 4.
Gamecube, PS2, PC, Wii, Iphone, Ipad.