Golden Rules for games with 3D visuals

Discussion in '3DS - Games & Content' started by spiritofcat, Sep 22, 2010.

Sep 22, 2010
  1. spiritofcat
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    Member spiritofcat GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    I'm really excited about the visual potential of the 3DS with its 3D with no glasses technology.
    However, as someone with a fair bit of experience in viewing and producing 3D images, there are some basic rules that seem obvious to me, but that I suspect developers will take a while to figure out.

    1. The HUD must always be closer to the viewer than any other 3D element.
    I've already seen this rule broken when I tried out the Avatar game for 360 on a 3D TV. The mini-map in the bottom right of the screen was not always closer than the ground 'behind' it. This resulted in the mini-map sometimes appearing to be in a sort of cave within the ground.

    Here's an example of Rule 1 being broken:
    [​IMG]

    And here is how it should be done:
    [​IMG]


    2. Any 3D element that extends beyond the edge of the screen must be positioned behind the surface of the screen, never in front!
    I noticed this one in the Avatar game too. If a 3D element such as the ground is positioned so that it pops out of the surface of the screen, then when it meets the side of the screen it will be chopped off sharply, or appear all flickery and bad. In Avatar the ground did this and so it looked like we had a slab of ground sticking out the front of the TV but it ended where the TV ended.

    Here's an example of Rule 1 being broken:
    [​IMG]

    And here is how it should be done:
    [​IMG]

    3. Do not use Depth of Field blur effects.
    In natural 3D vision both depth and focus are controlled by the viewer. In a 3D image though, focus cannot be changed. Any depth that the viewer can direct their eye to need to be rendered in sharp focus or it confuses the eyes.

    That's all I can think of right now. Feel free to suggest more of your own and I'll update the list.
    Also, I'll try to provide some examples of each rule using my own 3D photographs.
     
  2. campbell00

    Member campbell00 GBAtemp Regular

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    This is certain, but anyway:

    All Launch games will use 3-d. whether it enhances gameplay or not.
     
  3. dsfanatic5

    Member dsfanatic5 Team ICO Freak

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    Even though I haven't played a game in 3-D, I've though about these downfalls. I would only hope that a developer could aknowledge something that doesn't look right, and not include it in the final game. I'm convinced that games produced by Nintendo will make smart use of the 3-D, and not display such glitches as the OP is concerned with.

    I can bet, however, that there will be a great deal of shovelware at some point, so expect to see lazy use of the 3D in some games.
     
  4. spiritofcat
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    Member spiritofcat GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    I know James Cameron's Avatar: The Game didn't get great reviews, but I wouldn't call it shovelware either.
    It was published by Ubisoft and was being used as a demo to show off 3D TV technology. You'd hope that somewhere along the line someone would acknowledge that something didn't look right and fix it before publishing, but no such luck in this case...
     
  5. dsfanatic5

    Member dsfanatic5 Team ICO Freak

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    Perhaps not shovelware, only because of the source material, but don't forget that most games based on movies are rushed pieces of crap. I would expect poor game design from Avatar: The Game, regardless of how great the movie was (opinion). They spent years making the movie, and probably less than a year rushing the game out to coincide with the movie's release.

    Like you said, they obviously didn't fix it before publishing, and I would expect the same to happen for many titles on the 3DS. Some developers know how to utilize the technology to it's full capabilities, and others make poor use of it, resulting in a game that feels like it's a decade behind the times. Resident Evil 4 made the Gamecube feel like a next-gen system. Metal Gear Solid (PSone) made the Dual Shock controller the most innovative gaming device in decades. Then look at all the crappy games made for those systems that failed to be innovative, or make good use of the technology at all. This happens with every game system, and will happen with the 3DS as well. We can only look forward to the quality games that define the system, and justify its design and intentions.
     
  6. cosmiccow

    Member cosmiccow Original Hippie

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    I can't wait to see 3DS games in action, though I expect 3D will be used badly by a lot of games just to have it in there.

    Even for major releases like the launch titles from Nintendo and big third party names I have my concerns about the 3D effects. I am somehow expecting that I cannot really enjoy the 3D for more than an hour at a time before getting eyestrain or headache.

    Yes I was watching Avatar (2,5 hours) without problems in the cinema. The only visual drawback came from the edges/nose area of the 3D glasses. So the 3DS gets rid of all the problems with glasses but instead you are focusing on a much smaller area which you are tilting and moving in your hands, all affecting the effect - even if only slightly.

    Aside from that I hope developers really think about using the effect and not throwing it in there just for the heck of it.

    In particular I am also looking forward to seeing games that are not 3D at all but using the new processing power and GPU.

    It's all just speculation but I am sure the 3DS and its games will be worth it. In the end (or "worst case") we could always use the slider to turn the 3D effect down or off.
     
  7. lostdwarf

    Member lostdwarf GBAtemp Maniac

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    another major thing is depth of field which the 3ds has an effect for... again watching Avatar my mind nearly exploded trying to make the blurred part of the image in focus... NO BLURRING PLEASE especially depth of field blurring, with the 3D we will be able to see whats behind what so no need to cause a ton of eyestrain with stupid blurry background/clear foreground and vice versa. IT HURTS MY EYES!
     
  8. Saddamsdevil

    Member Saddamsdevil GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    If it is 3D there should NEVER be DOF blur. Your eyes should naturally blur everything not in focus if you're looking at a 3d object... jeez, you'd THINK they'd figure this out =/
     
  9. Veho

    Global Moderator Veho The man who cried "Ni".

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    That doesn't happen with 3D screens, only with actual 3D objects. The depth of field blur happens when the eyes focus on a closer object and the background objects are out of focus. The eyes focus at a certain distance. With a 3D screen, the entire screen is at the same distance from your eyes, so everything is in focus. You have to introduce some blurring to emulate the depth of field effect, otherwise it looks weird. Of course, some people take it too far.
     
  10. Fat D

    Member Fat D GBAtemp Maniac

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    Actually, real-life 3D has an advantage there, as the blurring is based on the actual distance from the eye (and therefore also happens when using a monocular viewer, such as keeping one eye closed or watching through a camera), not the triangulated distance you get from stereoscopic vision. The Avatar game might be a case of trading realistic looks for playability - A compromise made far too often in the world of HD visuals.
     
  11. spiritofcat
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    Member spiritofcat GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    The blurring in the Avatar movie irritated me a bit too. The problem is that with a 3D image you're given the choice of what depth to look at, but the actual focus (sharp vs blurred) is controlled by the film-maker. In real life both depth and focus are controlled by your own eyes.
    So yeah, I'd say that's a good rule 3. Don't use depth of field blurring.
     
  12. Jamstruth

    Member Jamstruth Secondary Feline Anthropomorph

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    All games on the 3DS will use 3D. 3D never really enhances anything its its an added effect. My brother says the 3D effect having a slider so it can be turned off is stupid since if that's there you can't really design games with 3D in mind. The thing is that if its already using a 3D environment it doesn't matter. The 3D is an added effect that will never enhance gameplay in the slightest, just make it look nicer.
     
  13. Fat D

    Member Fat D GBAtemp Maniac

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    Actually, working depth perception will help you judge distances along the Z-axis better, although if it is as radical as Nintendo propaganda claims remains to be seen.
     
  14. Snorlax

    Member Snorlax POSTMODERNISM

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    With no DOF blurring, Avatar would've looked like shit.
    However, that being said, I'm agreeing that it's sometimes used in excess.
     
  15. chartube12

    Member chartube12 GBAtemp Addict

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    3d being turned off is stupid? If nintendo removed the ability to turn the 3d off, I would never buy a 3ds. 3D gives me very bad headaches. I will be having the 3D off at all times!
     
  16. monkat

    Banned monkat I'd like to see you TRY to ban me. (Should I try?.

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    Also - I can't see 3D. My left eye is basically decoration. I have 0 depth perception.
     
  17. Supervlieg

    Newcomer Supervlieg Member

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    These make sense. Id like to add this one:

    3d should always go into the screen (like looking through a window), and only loose objects that dont touch the edges of the screen may extent towards the viewer.
     
  18. spiritofcat
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    Member spiritofcat GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Yep, I agree. That kind of fits in with what I'm saying in Rule 2 anyway.
     

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