God trying to pwn self?

[deathfisaro]

Pre-Script: I'm looking forward for a logical discussion, not a zealot explosion. Although if the latter happens, that'll take out some questions in my mind.

To be on the same page, let's ASSUME God exists and God created people, regardless of your religion or the lack of.

If you look at Genesis1:27, it says "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him"


Take one:

Okay, so it looks like God created me, but I'm an atheist. Why the hell did he create me as an atheist?
I mean, who intentionally train their pets to disobey their masters? Who intentionally create machines that will reject human control and revolt against the creators?
If he didn't make me an atheist, I wouldn't question his existence. But God himself created people that way and the world is suffering religious conflicts.


Take two:

Picking on the short phrase "in his own image, in the image of God".
Well, he created imperfect people. He created Nazis, terrorists, Bush, trolls, software pirates and such. Wait, since God created man in his own image, does that make God a Bush family Nazi terrorist who pirates games and trolls on message boards?
Pick up the atheist theme from take one, God doesn't believe in the existence of himself so I don't believe in him? Dang I feel like I just took the red pill.

 

[raulpica]

All those things happen because he created us with Free Will.

So there are people like that because they're free to be like that.

He created us in His own image giving us the possibility of choice. We can be good people or bad people, it's all up to us.

EDIT: Wrong Wiki link.

 

[moozxy]

The bible says those imperfect things you mentioned only came into this world after the Original Sin, before that everything was perfect.

 

[lagman]

You can't shouldn't try to debate religion in logic terms, because religion is based in faith, no logic:
Resurrection, Virgin birth,etc, etc.

 

[deathfisaro]

Why did God set a trap if he knew some of his creations will go against his rules?

I didn't finish reading the bible so fill me in. (That is, if the Bible explained why)

 

[raulpica]

Why did God set a trap if he knew some of his creations will go against his rules?

I didn't finish reading the bible so fill me in. (That is, if the Bible explained why)

Because he wanted to see if His creations were obedient and had faith in Him or not and if they were worthy of all the things that He gave them.

Uh, or something like that.

That's the story, and now we're mortals >_>

 

[acky]

If I recall correctly, satan was like fk this, then he left God to make his own army to fight in the apocalypse. Satan later reads the bible and finds out he's gonna get pwned in the final battle so all he's trying to do now is take down as many of us as he can with him. So basically our free will is letting us decide if we're with god or with satan.

 

[deathfisaro]

Because he wanted to see if His creations were obedient and had faith in Him or not and if they were worthy of all the things that He gave them.
So like, he created perfect man. Added free will to make man imperfect, then wanted to test out if his creation is perfect, and since then everything went haywire? I don't understand his mindset but I'm no deity either, so I'll let that slip.

QUOTE(raulpica @ Jul 20 2008, 04:34 PM) That's the story, and now we're mortals >_>

Not only are we mortals, we wear clothes now.

 

[raulpica]

Because he wanted to see if His creations were obedient and had faith in Him or not and if they were worthy of all the things that He gave them.
So like, he created perfect man. Added free will to make man imperfect, then wanted to test out if his creation is perfect, and since then everything went haywire? I don't understand his mindset but I'm no deity either, so I'll let that slip.


Well, he wanted to test out if they were faithful to him. They instead went for the tentation (damned satan-snake!), and yep, now we die, get ill and much much other

QUOTE(raulpica @ Jul 20 2008, 04:34 PM)

That's the story, and now we're mortals >_>

Not only are we mortals, we wear clothes now.

Yeah

 

[Tanas]

If God really did exist, he would be charged for crimes against humanity.

 

[Gman 101]

If I recall correctly, satan was like fk this, then he left God to make his own army to fight in the apocalypse. Satan later reads the bible and finds out he's gonna get pwned in the final battle so all he's trying to do now is take down as many of us as he can with him. So basically our free will is letting us decide if we're with god or with satan.

Yep. That pretty much sums up the current situation.

Gah stupid Eve. If only she didn't fall for the damned snake. It's a good example that women can be bad for us

 

[Tanas]

I think that I'd choose the lesser of the two evils...

 

[Mangofett]

One thing I've wondered always... this is what my catholic school has taught me so far in religion class/mass.

1) God is infinitely powerful.
2) God loves everything and everyone, including Satan.

So someone asked, "why do people, such as atheists go to hell?" the reply was something like "because their heart is too dark to accept God's love".

But God is supposedly infinitely powerful, and loves everyone. So, he wouldn't want any of his beloved children to suffer for eternity, until the end of time, endlessly, without a break, right? So can't he use some of his power to make use understand his love?

Why is it our instinct to reproduce and proliferate (constantly for some), yet the bible forbids adultery? Did cavemen get married and stay with only one partner? Doubtfully.

 

[Joey R.]

One thing I've wondered always... this is what my catholic school has taught me so far in religion class/mass.

1) God is infinitely powerful.
2) God loves everything and everyone, including Satan.

So someone asked, "why do people, such as atheists go to hell?" the reply was something like "because their heart is too dark to accept God's love".

But God is supposedly infinitely powerful, and loves everyone. So, he wouldn't want any of his beloved children to suffer for eternity, until the end of time, endlessly, without a break, right? So can't he use some of his power to make use understand his love?

Why is it our instinct to reproduce and proliferate (constantly for some), yet the bible forbids adultery? Did cavemen get married and stay with only one partner? Doubtfully.

1. Well, He loves everyone, but He is really pissed at everyone at the same time. And I don't know if He really is that powerful... I mean... Can He do a square with three sides? Even if he could, that would not be a triangle, nor a square. It would be something in-between, but there could be no "triangular square". Everything that goes against the very definition of itself cannot be made, even by God. For example, he cannot create someone more powerful than Himself, even though that means He is not omnipotent... clearly, a logical contradiction. But this is religion, what would you expect of it?

2. Technically speaking, cavemen didn't exist, according to most the of the biggest branches of Catholicism. At least, they don't mention them. If they do, however, they are accepting that "something" must have evolved from them to get what we are now, and we all know that evolution is a no-no in religion. Unless, of course, theologists don't consider cavemen as "human beings", but in that case none of these rules could be applied to them...

 

[Tanas]

If life was created, and not simply the result of undirected unconscious evolution (as seems sensible), this is surely the worst possible way to have created life. It appears very much that life cannot survive without causing suffering for other life. A god could not have created a more vicious cycle if it tried: Tying the very existence of life with the necessary killing of other life is the work of an evil genius, not of an all-powerful and all-loving god.

 

[deathfisaro]

I'll make things complicated by introducing other religions with their own heaven.

If you go to religion A's heaven, technically that's part of religion B's hell, and vice versa.
Like, I'll be damned for worshipping other gods and sent to hell, but the gods I worship will send me to their heaven and stuff.

Assuming, multiple religions do not share their heavens (or the heaven).
Not all religions acknowledge the existence of other religions' deities and sharing a heaven can lead to heaven-residents mingling with other religions' heaven-residents thus getting introduced to the concept of existence of their gods which are supposed to be non-existent in your religion.


Me believing in God and going to Heaven doesn't stop Shiva from destroying the heck out of heaven and killing me (again), no?

 

[yuyuyup]

Before and after I masturbate I pray to my lord El Diablo

 

[Gman 101]

I'll make things complicated by introducing other religions with their own heaven.

If you go to religion A's heaven, technically that's part of religion B's hell, and vice versa.
Like, I'll be damned for worshipping other gods and sent to hell, but the gods I worship will send me to their heaven and stuff.

Assuming, multiple religions do not share their heavens (or the heaven).
Not all religions acknowledge the existence of other religions' deities and sharing a heaven can lead to heaven-residents mingling with other religions' heaven-residents thus getting introduced to the concept of existence of their gods which are supposed to be non-existent in your religion.


Me believing in God and going to Heaven doesn't stop Shiva from destroying the heck out of heaven and killing me (again), no?

Yep. Except, in Islam (from what I understand), you go to hell after you die and it depends on how long you stay in hell, unless you commit Jihad which means you go straight to heaven with 70 virgins (or 40?) waiting for you.

 

[martin88]

I'll make things complicated by introducing other religions with their own heaven.

If you go to religion A's heaven, technically that's part of religion B's hell, and vice versa.
Like, I'll be damned for worshipping other gods and sent to hell, but the gods I worship will send me to their heaven and stuff.

Assuming, multiple religions do not share their heavens (or the heaven).
Not all religions acknowledge the existence of other religions' deities and sharing a heaven can lead to heaven-residents mingling with other religions' heaven-residents thus getting introduced to the concept of existence of their gods which are supposed to be non-existent in your religion.


Me believing in God and going to Heaven doesn't stop Shiva from destroying the heck out of heaven and killing me (again), no?

Yep. Except, in Islam (from what I understand), you go to hell after you die and it depends on how long you stay in hell, unless you commit Jihad which means you go straight to heaven with 70 virgins (or 40?) waiting for you.

So Islam do encourage terrorism? I see.

 

[Mangofett]

I'll make things complicated by introducing other religions with their own heaven.

If you go to religion A's heaven, technically that's part of religion B's hell, and vice versa.
Like, I'll be damned for worshipping other gods and sent to hell, but the gods I worship will send me to their heaven and stuff.

Assuming, multiple religions do not share their heavens (or the heaven).
Not all religions acknowledge the existence of other religions' deities and sharing a heaven can lead to heaven-residents mingling with other religions' heaven-residents thus getting introduced to the concept of existence of their gods which are supposed to be non-existent in your religion.


Me believing in God and going to Heaven doesn't stop Shiva from destroying the heck out of heaven and killing me (again), no?

Yep. Except, in Islam (from what I understand), you go to hell after you die and it depends on how long you stay in hell, unless you commit Jihad which means you go straight to heaven with 70 virgins (or 40?) waiting for you.

So Islam do encourage terrorism? I see.

No... some crazy extremists interpreted it that way.