Hacking Gateway's Diagnostics might be one of the bricking causes

[gamesquest1]

And hey, don't get me wrong, we all appreciate your effort. I would love to front page or sticky this, trust me! You guys aren't the only ones who wanted to do so, but it's just not concrete yet where we can definitively say, this is a confirmed issue that is causing bricks.

.....and never ever ever ever will be

 

[bkifft]

*sigh*

Please look at this from our perspective. If we front page speculation it degrades portal quality. This isn't how journalism works. Things that end up on the portal are press releases.

http://gbatemp.net/threads/rumor-sony-set-to-reveal-ps4-vr-headset-at-gdc-2014.362407/ <- speculation.
http://gbatemp.net/threads/list-of-playstation-now-beta-titles-leaked.361602/ <- speculation.
http://gbatemp.net/threads/upcoming-psvita-slim-unveiling-in-the-west-possibly.361251/ <- speculation
http://gbatemp.net/threads/this-monday-miiverse-nnid-for-3ds-incoming.358798/ <- speculation
http://gbatemp.net/threads/rumour-ps4-assembly-line-reportedly-sabotaged-by-foxconn-interns.357887/ <- speculation

Just quoting other sources doesn't make them facts imho (even if they prove to be right afterwards).

Misinformation.
Where's your evidence to back that up? Where's the code snippet that says so?

Here's the point we're trying to get across:
...and Ryukouki is entirely correct. Correlation does not equal causation - just because two events occur together does not mean that they're in any way connected. We know that the Diagnostics Tool may have something to do with the bricking and that using it may be a bad idea - that's all we know, and may isn't "fact". We're trying our earnest not to be a rumour mill, which is why the news that was frontpaged was that 2.0B2 occasionally bricks consoles, and that's because it's factual information.

We're still waiting for Gateway's response on the matter, once we have that, perhaps we'll see a frontpage post about the debacle. Until then, the official stance is "don't use 2.0B2". At all. The reason why that's the case is that if we do say "oh, 2.0B2 is eh-o-kay if you don't use the Diagnostics Tool" and someone does brick their system in another unrelated way, it's our fault. We did it, because we posted unearnest information on the frontpage and led our user to believe that he or she was safe when in fact he or she was traversing a minefield. We can't have that, we want all our Tempers safe and sound.

But why wasn't "don't use 2.0B2" frontpaged prominently then? All i could find was

The issue has since become more isolated and down to the b2 firmware, so if the user should become concerned a recommendation is to simply not use the b2 firmware or the 3.1-3.2 firmwares for the R4i/3DSLink.

(http://gbatemp.net/threads/update-3ds-flash-kits-and-bricked-nintendo-3ds-reports.360576/).
That sentence (besides being hidden in a wall of text) doesn't say "don't use 2.0b2", it says "if you doubt GW or are a scaredy-cat , use an older version". That doubt gets nullified by

We can confirm that NO Gateway user had any issue with their console or their Gateway card.

in the verbatim copied quote of GW's statement.

 

[Foxi4]

*Snip!*

Spoiler

C'mon, man... those are huge red letters...

Spoiler

Same thing in Devin's review in the Review Center.

 

[bkifft]

C'mon, man... those are huge red letters...

k, if the repost of said item (haven't seen it) just doesn't show up in the frontpage news history: mea maxima culpa.

edit: as not everyone checks the frontpage every day it might still be a good idea to ensure that said warning shows up in the frontpage news history.

 

[gamesquest1]

I don't think it was Proven at that point it was speculation, so I think what the staff are saying is "preventative speculation is ok, but speculation that could encourage users to make a bad decision isn't". Which is fair enough, I don't want to encourage people to use b2, just alert them to my preventative speculation if they do decide they want to use b2

Basically if it has the potential to backfire on them, they don't want to take the risk


And while we are on the subject the warning should be updated XD, there is a way to recover them thanks to Bkifft ....we wouldn't want to share disinformation....it worse than misinformation

 

[bkifft]

And while we are on the subject the warning should be updated XD, there is a way to recover them thanks to Bkifft

That info was frontpaged (and even showed up in the history).

 

[Ryukouki]

Spoiler

C'mon, man... those are huge red letters...

Spoiler

Same thing in Devin's review in the Review Center.

It's clearly not big enough. Might have to make it bigger. And no. I am not going to begin unrelated news articles with a Gateway snippet just for you guys. Not checking the front page isn't on me, it's like trying to pin something on me because my article was made under the Temp Light theme when the dark theme kids can't read.

 

[Foxi4]

It's clearly not big enough. Might have to make it bigger. And no. I am not going to begin unrelated news articles with a Gateway snippet just for you guys. Not checking the front page isn't on me, it's like trying to pin something on me because my article was made under the Temp Light theme when the dark theme kids can't read.

Now, now - let's not exaggerate here.

The point here is that the only thing we could do to satisfy the "need" for information about this 100% would be to leave a huge, permanent sticky on the top of the frontpage with all the information about bricks that's been gathered so far, and that's not convenient to anybody. It would make navigation difficult and it would prevent people from reading about actual, new and exciting news because the headlines would be pushed to the bottom of the page - we don't want that.

GBATemp.net is slowly progressing towards becoming a gaming and homebrew news portal, and that's a good thing. We want to provide our users with exciting developments from the industry as well as the scene, but we're only human. We do our best to keep the frontpage both consistent and readable and we believe that we've done enough to inform our users about the dangers involving the use of Beta firmware.

We sincerely appreciate the research done by gamesquest1, it sheds a new light on the matter and narrows down the issue, but we simply don't have evidence to support:

• A) That there's actually bricking code in the Launchers, because we don't have the source code or any snippets of it
• B) That this issue is related to the alleged bricking code and not a separate glitch altogether
• C) That it was put into the firmware deliberately and not by accident
• D) That it's the sole reason for the bricks

We're at the stage of gathering information about the issue and we'd like to see what the Gateway Team has to say. As a News outlet, we need to remain impartial, we can't put water on a rumour mill, however legitimate the rumour seems to be. We want to have statements from both sides and we sincerely encourage further research into the matter. I, for one, would like to see if the same issue occurs on different Gateway firmwares. Does the same thing happen in 1.2 or 2.0B1? I'd like to know, because if it does, the whole thing might be a separate glitch altogether. Those concerns, among others, are the reason why we're not posting this on the frontpage yet. Once we're better-informed, we'll consider improving upon more all-encompasing articles. Believe me when I say that when the word from Gateway's out, we'll be the first to frontpage it. In other words...

Keep Calm and Carry on GBATemping, people!

 

[gamesquest1]

Does the same thing happen in 1.2 or 2.0B1? I'd like to know, because if it does, the whole thing might be a separate glitch altogether.

thoroughly (well about 40 times) tested diagnostics mode on b1, with 0 bricks, haven't made it past 7 tries with B2 before the console bricks, its usually 2-4

and 1.2 doesnt have a gateway menu to run diagnostics mode, only the LED sequence

 

[Foxi4]

thoroughly (well about 40 times) tested diagnostics mode on b1, with 0 bricks, haven't made it past 7 tries with B2 before the console bricks, its usually 2-4

and 1.2 doesnt have a gateway menu to run diagnostics mode, only the LED sequence

Good to know, noted.

 

[bkifft]

It's clearly not big enough. Might have to make it bigger. And no. I am not going to begin unrelated news articles with a Gateway snippet just for you guys. Not checking the front page isn't on me, it's like trying to pin something on me because my article was made under the Temp Light theme when the dark theme kids can't read.

So in other words: once a piece of news is pushed from the real frontpage (as in http://gbatemp.net/?page=1) it's the users fault for not checking it every five minutes?

I mean i just checked the complete history from now till 2013-06-01 (at the time of writing this post http://gbatemp.net/?page=43) and the only brick related news entries that showed up were "DIY unbrick possible" (2014-01-26), "GW repairs in case legit should brick (which it can't)" (2014-01-17) and "3DS flashcarts can brick the console" (2014-01-14).


The only big red GW related letters i could find were

PLEASE NOTE THAT YOU MUST STILL HAVE A CONSOLE ON THE 4.1-4.5 FIRMWARE.

which were in the 2.0b2 release announcement (2013-12-24) (which incidentally doesn't contain a "don't use 2.0b2"),

AT THIS TIME, PLEASE NOTE THAT Pokemon X/Y and Animal Crossing: New Leaf DO NOT WORK! ONLINE PLAY IS ALSO CONFIRMED NOT WORKING AT PRESENT!

in the 2.0b1 release announcement (2013-12-1).

So, without wanting to sound to passive aggressive, am I blind or do I simply not get how a news system is supposed to work (in other words "PEBCAK")?


p.s.: while checking the frontpage backlog i stumbled over this nice statement from GW (2013-11-01):

[Talking about bad quality clones] It will inevitably fail and brick over time with or without updates as it is using our software which was not designed for their hardware.

Shamed be he who thinks evil of it...


edit: Just to clarify: My intention is not to get an "as long as you don't run the diagnostics you'll be fine", but an "even unaltered legit GW can brick, here's the video", in other words warning those who don't read reviews (why should they, they've already bought it) or this subforum.

 

[Ryukouki]

So in other words: once a piece of news is pushed from the real frontpage (as in http://gbatemp.net/?page=1) it's the users fault for not checking it every five minutes?

I mean i just checked the complete history from now till 2013-06-01 (at the time of writing this post http://gbatemp.net/?page=43) and the only brick related news entries that showed up were "DIY unbrick possible" (2014-01-26), "GW repairs in case legit should brick (which it can't)" (2014-01-17) and "3DS flashcarts can brick the console" (2014-01-14).

I feel like maybe we're misunderstanding each other. Or it's me. I'm not trying to say it like that at all, lol.

 

[jrr6415sun]

We sincerely appreciate the research done by gamesquest1, it sheds a new light on the matter and narrows down the issue, but we simply don't have evidence to support:

• A) That there's actually bricking code in the Launchers, because we don't have the source code or any snippets of it
• B) That this issue is related to the alleged bricking code and not a separate glitch altogether
• C) That it was put into the firmware deliberately and not by accident
• D) That it's the sole reason for the bricks

)

It's pretty easy to see that the brick code is in the launcher because it bricks on 2.0b2 and not 2.0b1. If it was something besides the launcher it would brick on both versions. Of course you can't prove that it's there on purpose however if you just use common sense you can make a pretty good educated guess on the answer. I think many people on here have said its hard to write code that bricks it "on accident"

 

[Foxi4]

It's pretty easy to see that the brick code is in the launcher because it bricks on 2.0b2 and not 2.0b1. If it was something besides the launcher it would brick on both versions. Of course you can't prove that it's there on purpose however if you just use common sense you can make a pretty good educated guess on the answer. I think many people on here have said its hard to write code that bricks it "on accident"

Ah, yes "pretty educated guess", "common sense" and "news" don't go together. Those are all assumptions. We're warning people about the possibility of getting their systems bricked with 2.0B2, but we're not willing to post theories that may or may not be true - proof has to be conclusive or it's no proof at all.

 

[gamesquest1]

i think someone hasn't seen tabloids
some times news doesn't even need a shred of proof, its just a matter of what will sell the most papers

 

[tbgtbg]

This is the equivalent of saying that eating posionous fish is alright if you cook them properly. It is alright, sure... until one day you just have poor luck and something goes terribly wrong.

I never thought anyone would bring up fugu in a gateway brick thread.

 

[Foxi4]

i think someone hasn't seen tabloids some times news doesn't even need a shred of proof, its just a matter of what will sell the most papers

Yes, well, we're not a tabloid and we're not like that. The Mag Staff has no intention of posting "imaginary news" like tabloids do.

 

[F417H]

So, still not willing to sticky... So it's up to the community that cares to bumpity bump?

 

[bigusheadus]

I wouldn't get too eat up about it, you've seen the response since yesterday. A video like that and they still take the apologist line.

 

[Jean Karlo]

Ah, yes "pretty educated guess", "common sense" and "news" don't go together. Those are all assumptions. We're warning people about the possibility of getting their systems bricked with 2.0B2, but we're not willing to post theories that may or may not be true - proof has to be conclusive or it's no proof at all.

But Foxiii.. *says it in a little lid voice* This is not a theory.. If you run diagnostics on b2 of gateway you'll eventually get bricked ....

Anyways i see the point of the staff... They need something more "concrete" for a lack of a better word...
Plus, anyone who needed to see this already saw it.. Members will spread the word I'm sure...