Hacking Gateway's Diagnostics might be one of the bricking causes

[cloud1250000]

Well, that was a pretty bad analogy, but whatever. I apologize. You are probably right. The diagnostics test of the gateway firmware just happens by chance to reprogram the eMMC controller and set the NAND to 0 bytes. The code for this also just happens to be there by chance.

as foxi4 said, it may be due to a problem with the diagnostic function... Also, yeah, there's probably a bricking code in gateway, but my point is why it would trigger? (the point with the knife... anyway )

Just one question - is the diagnostic tool specific to the Gateway and unavailable on the clones? Because if that's the case then it doesn't explain clone bricks, which could mean that this is actually an unrelated glitch of the tool itself. Maybe it performes writes into NAND instead of reads for some reason? Who knows, who knows - it's in the realm of possibilities.

 

[Nightwish]

soo wiiubricker, if someday, the police go to your house, and found someone dead killed with a knife, the police will automatically blame you because you had knife in your kitchen?

A lot can happen and unless it's all clear well.. we can't accuse anyone.

Err, yes? The police isn't terribly worried whether they get the right person, only that someone goes to jail.

 

[cloud1250000]

well normally there's an investigation no? Looking for evidences? (well in my country there is.)

 

[Foxi4]

Err, yes? The police isn't terribly worried whether they get the right person, only that someone goes to jail.

Perhaps in Portugal, but definitely not worldwide. In most places around the world, the police investigates whodunit since the culprit might've simply left the weapon at the scene of the crime. You're merely a suspect until you are proven guilty or not guilty, but that's besides the point.

 

[CraddaPoosta]

Err, yes? The police isn't terribly worried whether they get the right person, only that someone goes to jail.

Someone has been playing WAY too much Phoenix Wright.

 

[Nightwish]

It's not like there's ample written, audio and visual references of innocents going to jail and terrible mistakes before and during a trial... Of course there's an investigation, but they quickly make up their mind and don't go out of their way to look for other possible suspects.

Again with the double post... Sorry.

 

[F417H]

Their next move is to pull 2.0b2 from the site. Regardless of 2.0f this is pretty serious.

- I've emailed them asking them to take 2.0b2 down in light of this.

 

[gamesquest1]

the nand isn't actually reprogrammed to 0 bytes....its issued a lock command, still not a function that happens by accident but a trigger that shouldn't of triggered the code might accidentally trigger that function...........like if you place a knife somewhere stupid and then accidentally knock it into someone else....yeah its mostly your fault for putting the knife their in the first place, but the actual result was an accident

all that has been "proven" so far is that gateway put the knife in a stupid place, as of yet i dont think anyone has any proof they actually did it to stab anyone

 

[jrr6415sun]

Please do not spread misinformation. The video confirms that the diagnostics tool is likely to be one of the causes, but it doesn't conclusively show that Gateway firmware 2.0B2 is safe to use in any other circumstances. It may or may not brick your system and still isn't recommended to use, period. Not running the diagnostics tool might help, but it definitely isn't the go-to 100% surefire method of avoiding bricking.

I'm not entirely sure if this thread has any discussion value as a separate entity - the issue is being discussed in the thread you linked to in the OP and I honestly think that it might as well stay there so that the readers get the full extent of the information gathered.

Well he has shown that he ran it normally 200+ times and never got a brick, yet 50 diagnostics got 5 bricks. It's not guaranteed to be safe, but it is much safer than running diagnostics.

Not everyone reads every post to see what the contents are so I'm sure there are people that would benefit from this posts information

Just one question - is the diagnostic tool specific to the Gateway and unavailable on the clones? Because if that's the case then it doesn't explain clone bricks, which could mean that this is actually an unrelated glitch of the tool itself. Maybe it performes writes into NAND instead of reads for some reason? Who knows, who knows - it's in the realm of possibilities.

Yes that does explain it.. Since gateway intentionally bricks clones, there must be something in the diagnostics that is making the gateway think it is a clone

 

[bigusheadus]

I understand you're whole 'Don't double-thread'... But surely this topic merits being stickied all the same? /most brick reports from legit GW users have used the Diag tool shortly before brick. Although none of us can say it's 100% the only thing bricking the devices in the code, surely if it's affecting /most people it deserves to be made known for people they stand a *higher* risk if they use the Diag.

As much as we here at GBATemp know 2.0b2 is not safe... Newcomers may not know of the dangers considering it's still up as the main FW on GW's site stating it's 100% safe to use.


Well done to gamesquest1 for finding this, it had been speculated on previously but no one has really been active on identifying the causes due to the effort of Pi and having to own additional hardware.

People on forums have always been more concerned with scorning people than helping them. This could genuinely save peoples' consoles yet insignificant stuff like double posts trump anything worthwhile.

 

[Qtis]

People on forums have always been more concerned with scorning people than helping them. This could genuinely save peoples' consoles yet insignificant stuff like double posts trump anything worthwhile.

It's not the double posting, it's that the information is already in one way out another available in stickies. Also adding information to the existing stickies is a better idea than making a ton of them on top of the ones already there. 2.0b2 is already said to be unstable.​

​

Adding the OP's information from this thread to the other one to which the OP is linking to would be a better option in many cases. Otherwise the original gateway thread would have exploded into hundreds of threads discussing the same issue/topic.​

Edit: the information is already in the first post on the other thread.

 

[F417H]

It's not the double posting, it's that the information is already in one way out another available in stickies. Also adding information to the existing stickies is a better idea than making a ton of them on top of the ones already there. 2.0b2 is already said to be unstable.

Adding the OP's information from this thread to the other one to which the OP is linking to would be a better option in many cases. Otherwise the original gateway thread would have exploded into hundreds of threads discussing the same issue/topic.

Edit: the information is already in the first post on the other thread.

Was just gonna quote a part of this but hey -

Yes the info is in other threads... None of which clearly label the issue to users or will get their attention unless digging through lots of pages.
Yes there is another thread relating to this... It won't stay on the front page for long, and it still doesn't outline the main issue discovered with the latest firmware.
Yes 2.0b2 is buggy, it's still the only touted FW on GW's site though.

... Something this big deserves a sticky no?

 

[Runehasa]

Stickied or Front paged in my opinion. Flame me if you like for double posting but if this saves the life of at least one 3DS I say it was worth it

 

[Ryukouki]

*sigh*

Please look at this from our perspective. If we front page speculation it degrades portal quality. This isn't how journalism works. Things that end up on the portal are press releases.

 

[Foxi4]

Well he has shown that he ran it normally 200+ times and never got a brick, yet 50 diagnostics got 5 bricks. It's not guaranteed to be safe, but it is much safer than running diagnostics.

Not everyone reads every post to see what the contents are so I'm sure there are people that would benefit from this posts information

Misinformation.

Yes that does explain it.. Since gateway intentionally bricks clones, there must be something in the diagnostics that is making the gateway think it is a clone

Where's your evidence to back that up? Where's the code snippet that says so?

Here's the point we're trying to get across:

*sigh*

Please look at this from our perspective. If we front page speculation it degrades portal quality. This isn't how journalism works. Things that end up on the portal are press releases.

...and Ryukouki is entirely correct. Correlation does not equal causation - just because two events occur together does not mean that they're in any way connected. We know that the Diagnostics Tool may have something to do with the bricking and that using it may be a bad idea - that's all we know, and may isn't "fact". We're trying our earnest not to be a rumour mill, which is why the news that was frontpaged was that 2.0B2 occasionally bricks consoles, and that's because it's factual information.

We're still waiting for Gateway's response on the matter, once we have that, perhaps we'll see a frontpage post about the debacle. Until then, the official stance is "don't use 2.0B2". At all. The reason why that's the case is that if we do say "oh, 2.0B2 is eh-o-kay if you don't use the Diagnostics Tool" and someone does brick their system in another unrelated way, it's our fault. We did it, because we posted unearnest information on the frontpage and led our user to believe that he or she was safe when in fact he or she was traversing a minefield. We can't have that, we want all our Tempers safe and sound.

 

[Subtle Demise]

The only thing the videos prove is that Gateway's diagnostic mode sucks and should never be used, but we knew that when they first released the "feature"

 

[Ryukouki]

Okay you guys! Now that I am no longer stuck on my phone, I'll leave a proper rebuttal.

The main argument you guys are throwing at me is to throw this topic and other related issues either on the portal or sticky them on the forums. Here is where this goes wrong. Threads like this are created very frequently. People use this site like a help desk and create a topic regarding these issues. That isn't a problem. For me, in an ideal world, I would like to have these stickies updated in real time with factual and accurate information. But that simply cannot happen because humans, like you or me, have to modify the post to make it reflect the most accurate information.

Looking at this topic, despite the video proof, at the end of the day it is still nothing more than speculation that the diagnostic code has proven issues. Correlation does NOT equal causation. gamesquest1 has touched the tip of an iceberg here on this issue, and it has led to some results. But at the end of the day, it's still a statistical test that isn't accurate because so far, nobody has come up with any direct evidence within the coding that says definitively that the Diagnostic Tester is the problem. It doesn't matter if you get fifty more people getting this exact result. It's just a number and speculation. Doesn't matter if you even shut off your 3DS 100 times, 200 times. It's still a speculative piece of evidence. The only ones who can confirm this are the Gateway team themselves, and so far they have been very clammed up about this information. It's not enough for me or any of the reporters to act off of. When the reasoning and rationale is provided by the Gateway team is provided, it will end up on the front page by me. You guys should know that by now. I do what I do for each and every one of you. I only ask that you guys not treat us reporters and staff members like nobodies for our decisions. While I might personally be swayed, it's not justifiable enough to post it on the portal just yet. If I had to post every itty bitty bit of speculation on the front page, there would be no other news getting exposure, and it'd probably do nothing more than get all of us to step down and say, screw it, someone else can do this. I get it, its a hotly debated issue that people think warrants attention. At the end of the day, it is not your decision. It's not your choice, nor is it his, his, or that guy over there in the peanut gallery. The ones that post things to the portal are usually going to be myself or another reporter.

A note regarding speculation. If you want to see what happens when I include speculative information in a stickied thread, look at my Comparison of 3DS Flashchips Thread. It went well, until the bricking fiasco began. And then you guys started to treat me like a tool. I did my best to provide that information to you guys. I started adding the speculative information that some people posted. I caved in a little bit to the pressure. I made note that it was speculative. This is what I saw shortly after:

"Ryukouki, you're not doing your job." "Ryukouki, your information needs this bit of speculation added." "Ryukouki, you added speculative information on the Gateway, what about us with the R4?!" "Ryukouki, FUCK YOU because you didn't get the information posted fast enough." "Slow to approve, quick to deny." "I'm reporting you to the staff because you're not posting accurate information." "*Some kind of threat here*" "Ten minutes ago, this team posted this snippet! Why the fuck is it not front paged!?"

I made the judgment call to revise the entire purpose of the thread for only factual information from that point forward. My point here is that speculation isn't good enough. Whatever I do, it will not satisfy everyone here. I get that. I want to get information that's reliable for everyone as soon as possible. I always strive to do that. At the end of the day, I want everyone here to be safe when using their equipment. So, please! For your sake, and for the sake of my Reporter colleagues, stop pushing the issue of sticking this and that. Information will be provided on the portal whenever we hear of something.

I'll also requote this bit from Foxi4 here:

The reason why that's the case is that if we do say "oh, 2.0B2 is eh-o-kay if you don't use the Diagnostics Tool" and someone does brick their system in another unrelated way, it's our fault. We did it, because we posted unearnest information on the frontpage and led our user to believe that he or she was safe when in fact he or she was traversing a minefield. We can't have that, we want all our Tempers safe and sound.

True statement. If something goes wrong that isn't related to diagnostics, it's on me or whoever reports it. It's unearnest, and at the end of the day, we want to give you guys the earnest information.

 

[Foxi4]

*Snip!*

Calm down, Ryu. You shouldn't have to post things like that, there's no reason to make personal remarks about "caring" on either of the sides of this argument - we know that you have exams, we know that it's probably tough on the affected users as well. We should all take a chill pill.

Fact of the matter is, this is a staff decision and it's non-negotiable, end-of. We've provided sufficient reasoning and we continue to officially discourage the use of 2.0B2 in any shape or form and reverting to previous firmwares, we do so in the Gateway 3DS's review by Devin. This does not limit to the Diagnostics Tool, it concerns the entirety of the firmware, and we do so for the sake of the safety of our users, end of story.

 

[gamesquest1]

I have no problem with it not getting stickied, I think most people at this point have seen it, the youtube video has over 2000 views, the only point I wanted to prove once and for all is that b2 CAN brick your 3ds, as upto this point even that was still classed as speculation by some, you should note though that just because gateway says something isn't true doesn't mean it isn't true.....this is the perfect example, so going to the front page with news from gateway could also be classed as spreading misinformation, such as their comments that using only un modified launchers is safe.

I'm not trying to make your job harder, in fact me doing all these tests was intended to try help out and stop all the "show me proof" post that where happening, no matter how you look at it, at the very least I have proven running an un modified launcher is not 100% safe like gateway claim! and I'm sure most people will be able to see the statistical relevance of the results I had.......but yeah as you have stated even if I am correct! it's impossible to prove and staying on b1 is the best option but people are able to make up their own minds on wether they want to risk it based my statistical theory, it's up to the end user to make up their own decision on if the added features are worth the chance, all I am doing is highlighting my finding so people know that running diagnostics seems to make the bricking 99 x more likely, and so far I haven't found any proof it will randomly brick,

 

[Ryukouki]

I have no problem with it not getting stickied, I think most people at this point have seen it, the youtube video has over 2000 views, the only point I wanted to prove once and for all is that b2 CAN brick your 3ds, as upto this point even that was still classed as speculation by some, you should note though that just because gateway says something isn't true doesn't mean it isn't true.....this is the perfect example, so going to the front page with news from gateway could also be classed as spreading misinformation, such as their comments that using only un modified launchers is safe.

I'm not trying to make your job harder, in fact me doing all these tests was intended to try help out and stop all the "show me proof" post that where happening, no matter how you look at it, at the very least I have proven running an un modified launcher is not 100% safe like gateway claim! and I'm sure most people will be able to see the statistical relevance of the results I had.......but yeah as you have stated even if I am correct! it's impossible to prove and staying on b1 is the best option but people are able to make up their own minds on wether they want to risk it based my statistical theory, it's up to the end user to make up their own decision on if the added features are worth the chance, all I am doing is highlighting my finding so people know that running diagnostics seems to make the bricking 99 x more likely, and so far I haven't found any proof it will randomly brick,

And hey, don't get me wrong, we all appreciate your effort. I would love to front page or sticky this, trust me! You guys aren't the only ones who wanted to do so, but it's just not concrete yet where we can definitively say, this is a confirmed issue that is causing bricks.