DSi incompatible with existing flash carts?

Rock Raiyu

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TrolleyDave said:
Kokorazashi said:
skyman747 said:
The SD Slot opens up too much, and with Flashcarts being blocked, CFW's are going to be developed much Faster.

Not to mention SD Cards are cheaper than MicroSD. 16GB Class 6 $40. MicroSD 16GB class 2 $90.

Dude, you can only use standard SD cards, not SDHC cards. So only 2GB allowed. But that isn't really a problem seeing as I can fit like 18 games on 2GB all of which are pretty good. They could possibly however, hack the firmware to read SDHC cards like what a few hackers did to the Wii (I can't remember what exactly it was called) to allow it to read SDHC cards. It was on the front page, Google it.

According to the manual it's SDHC. It's somewhere in this thread I think, or it could be the one in the Hardware and Utilities section.
Yeah, on the actual box it says SDHC support so it handles 2GB+ space. and thats good cause SD cards are really cheap these days.
 

aaron_McNiven

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Meh... who cares really, im 100% sure within a few weeks there will be a new flashcart for it.
I wonder how much bigger the roms will be ... ...
unsure.gif
 

tatumanu

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Theres only one good thing about the dsi in my view ... and that is good nintendo kick ass games to help sell it! And since all dsi games (except the download shop ones) will be compatible on the normal ds or ds lite it will keep my interess on the platform. Just hope a hacker manages to make it possible to play download shop games compatible with the older ds ... id like to play megaman 9 on my ds !
tongue.gif
 

PanzerWF

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Time to stock up on DS and DSL.

I bet you DSi sales will be horrible if it truly is incompatible with flash carts.

Nintendo has just dug themselves into their own grave.

Mark my Halloween-tastic words.
 

Dylan

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PanzerWF said:
Time to stock up on DS and DSL.

I bet you DSi sales will be horrible if it truly is incompatible with flash carts.

Nintendo has just dug themselves into their own grave.

Mark my Halloween-tastic words.

Idiot. As if the majority of DS owners all have flash carts. Maybe put down your DS for a minute and you might learn a few things.
 

PW1337

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There's still a long way before the DSi makes here to the US. Probably by then, someone will come out with a way to use flashcards, or a new flashcard compatible with the DSi might be around.

Anyways, which do you think will be hacked first, the DSi or the PSP 3000?
 

Joe88

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PW1337 said:
There's still a long way before the DSi makes here to the US. Probably by then, someone will come out with a way to use flashcards, or a new flashcard compatible with the DSi might be around.

Anyways, which do you think will be hacked first, the DSi or the PSP 3000?
if I had to make a choice then the psp
alot of people are still hard at work on it
 

openchip

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ViRGE said:
Raven Darkheart said:
come on now
when the ds came out it took em at least a year to come up with a slot 1 solution that was stable
so we shouldnt panic yet
A lot of that time was spent just reverse engineering the handheld to understand how it worked. The Slot-2 solution was actually pretty crude, it didn't take very long because it wasn't based on any kind of advanced understanding of the hardware. Boot the DS with a real game, then throw it an instruction to a memory address that should not have worked if the DS firmware was written correctly in the first place (which is why Nintendo fixed it with later firmwares). The advantage now is that we have a good understand of the hardware and while the DSi changes some things, the specs of Slot-1 and the main CPU will not have changed. We know how to patch games on the fly to deal with the additional delays of NAND flash, and to intercept calls to read/write savegames. And if my understanding of modern flashcards is right, we even know Nintendo's original DS game signing key. It shouldn't take a year, the hardware has been developed, it'll be a matter of what mechanism is blocking current carts, and finding a vulnerability to bypass it. Nintendo has proven to be poor at correctly implementing security measures in the past.

It will be interesting to see if the speculation about a white-list are true. If Nintendo is smart they've added an additional game signing key (one we don't know) to new titles, and this is where the white-list would make sense. I can't imagine this holding up for very long though, it relies on the cart not lying. Since these are active devices, lying is very easy to do. We can't fake being a new game that the DS doesn't know about (due to new keys) but we could fake being an old one, albeit at the risk of starting an arms race with Nintendo in future firmware updates.

I would not be surprised if this new blocking mechanism made it in to the DS Lite eventually though. Clearly it's to Nintendo's advantage to break old flash carts in both the DSi and the older DS Lite.

On that note however, I sincerely doubt we'll see a SD hack on the DSi's SD card slot. What makes the DS unique is that it's meant to execute games coming from fast ROM memory, and while this isn't quite as literal as it was with the GBA (which had virtually no RAM because of the ROM), it still holds true. For SD flash carts, timing hacks had to be developed to trick the DS in to putting up with the fact that reads from NAND flash are not as fast as they are with the original ROM (If Openchip is still here, he could probably say a great deal more about this). This is part of the reason why every flash cart has a small processor on it, because it needs to constantly intercept things. Making the DSi read from its own SD slot means that we won't have that processor and we can't execute games simply by throwing the bootup routine a new address that points to the SD slot. The firmware itself would need to be modified to perform what the flash cart processor currently does, and I'm not sure that would work for any number of reasons. Not the least of which includes if we can even write custom firmwares, or if it's possible to shoehorn one of the ARM processors in to doing this without throwing off other timings or slowing down the DS. Getting current flash carts working on the DS will probably be far easier than going to the next level and executing games from the SD slot.

I'm around maybe I am
smile.gif


some clarifications:
1) not all flash cards have an processor, there i no direct need for one
2) SD cards are FASTER then DS ROMs, not slower
.

It would be VERY surprising if DS titles would have any access to the DSi hardware.
More likely that titles starting in DS mode will lockdown the DSi to DS mode very
much the same as GBA titles on DS lockout DS hardware. And DSi titles as signed.
So the chance is real that the SD/Camera/Wifi will never be accessed by any homebrew.

Of course it is possible that N wasted many man years of development
and made another easy hack target device.
 

Miles

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PW1337 said:
Anyways, which do you think will be hacked first, the DSi or the PSP 3000?

Early model PSP-3000s can already run the Pandora hack, but you'd need a custom firmware that works with the new screen, mic, etc.
The problem is that there are only a few of them, and the rest won't be hackable due to Sony having a IPL check that only allows their own signed IPLs.
This means that Pandora's battery is dead, and there is next to nothing we can do about it.
 

Pazuzu

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If they're running DSiWare to have full games downloadable to the SD card, surely there'll be some way to disguise ROMs as downloaded DSiWare games, like with installing channels on the Wii? I'm thinking of the first incarnation of popstation, where PSX ISOs were generally disguised as Hot Shot Golf 2.

Since DSiWare is entirely based off running games through the SD card slot, there have to be some provisions in either the firmware or the hardware to accommodate SD booting.
 

11gardir

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First, Nintendo is only going to lose a few thousand sales to flashcart owners, so don't expect them to back down.

Second, seeing as we won't be getting DSis for 8months-1year, there's not much point in worrying - it will be up to the japanese owners in the next few weeks to crack the console, but we actually can't be affected by it until then.

So just be patient...
 

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