Hacking Devolution - Even better than the real thing?

[wiismodrome]

As most of you probably know by now, tueidj has written a Gamecube loader for USB and SD which runs Gamecube games in Wii mode. Among other things, this allows Devolution to take advantage of the Wii's superior hardware features. In many ways, the Wii is "Gamecube 1.5", as it uses very similar core hardware which is clocked 50% higher, with the addition of built-in Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, and USB 2.0 support . The Gamecube's PowerPC CPU runs at 486 MHz - the Wii's CPU at 729 MHz. Gamecube's Broadway GPU runs at 162 MHz - Wii's Hollywood at 243 MHz. Theoretically, this should offer a significant performance advantage.

Something I've noticed when running certain games in Devolution is that gameplay seems to be smoother in Wii mode than when playing from disc. As an example, when playing in GC mode from disc, XGRA: Extreme G-Racing Association exhibits a somewhat erratic frame rate, which is especially noticeable when there is a lot of action on screen; yet while running at the faster Wii clock rates in Devolution the game plays very smoothly, without obvious hiccups. I've encountered similar behavior in Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit 2. I'm thinking that the faster CPU/GPU speeds in Wii mode allow Devolution to run Gamecube games even better than in a real Gamecube.

Anyone else experienced similar results when playing games using Devolution?

 

[Dork]

Loading times are a hell of a lot faster in Super Smash Bros. Melee.

 

[the_randomizer]

Oh, so then does that mean Crash Bandicoot the Wrath of Cortex wouldn't have a sporadic framerate, either?

 

[OriginalHamster]

tueidj does what Nintendon't

 

[the_randomizer]

tueidj does what Nintendon't

Precisely. He has done some insane programming for the homebrew scene.

 

[JoostinOnline]

That's one of the best things about USB/SD backup loaders. Reading from the disc is slower than from USB/SD.

 

[tueidj]

Oh, so then does that mean Crash Bandicoot the Wrath of Cortex wouldn't have a sporadic framerate, either?

Wrath of Cortex apparently runs too fast according to the wiki. Normally this means the cpu timer is being used as a base for frame generation rather than the actual video hardware (which is pretty poor programming and why it isn't seen very often). Maybe they don't use a timer at all and just render as fast as possible.

 

[SifJar]

Wrath of Cortex apparently runs too fast according to the wiki. Normally this means the cpu timer is being used as a base for frame generation rather than the actual video hardware (which is pretty poor programming and why it isn't seen very often). Maybe they don't use a timer at all and just render as fast as possible.

Is there any way to fix something like that or will that game just never work properly with Devolution?

 

[tueidj]

It's fixable, other games like Killer 7 and Smuggler's Run: Warzones had similar issues. Also any game that uses BINK video would play cut scenes too fast if a certain patch wasn't used, there's quite a lot of those.

 

[wiismodrome]

Assuming that frame rates are actually better/more stable in Devolution, this would also give it a bit of an advantage over DIOS MIOS, at least for games that struggle to keep consistent frame rates. Some games already run at a locked 60 FPS, so they probably wouldn't see much, if any, change.

Is there any software control of CPU/GPU clock rates outside of BC/MIOS?

 

[crono141]

It would be nice to get the widescreen patch supported in devolution too.

 

[tmv_josue]

Oh, so then does that mean Crash Bandicoot the Wrath of Cortex wouldn't have a sporadic framerate, either?

Wrath of Cortex apparently runs too fast according to the wiki. Normally this means the cpu timer is being used as a base for frame generation rather than the actual video hardware (which is pretty poor programming and why it isn't seen very often). Maybe they don't use a timer at all and just render as fast as possible.

Freekstyle is another game it goes a little faster than normal.
But I did not report, because I like

Is there any software control of CPU/GPU clock rates outside of BC/MIOS?

AFAIK no, I only remember a version of Waninkoko's cMIOS that had an easter egg in it allowing run a few titles to overspeed.

 

[wiismodrome]

Maybe Devolution needs a Turbo option.... for those who like to go fast....

 

[SifJar]

AFAIK no, I only remember a version of Waninkoko's cMIOS that had an easter egg in it allowing run a few titles to overspeed.

That was just loading MIOS directly instead of loading BC and allowing it to load MIOS (it's BC that changes clock speed etc.). crediar had released a video of it long before Waninkoko added it (and it was in cIOS, not cMIOS; don't think Waninkoko even made a cMIOS, but by the time cMIOS would have been loaded it would have been too late as BC would have already changed the clock speed), and many people could have done it (by my understanding, it was literally a case of loading MIOS, which would take only a few lines of code). Obviously without the additional patches etc. of Devolution, the games didn't run properly so there wasn't a huge amount of point in it.

EDIT: crediar's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlzVpo5IPdM

 

[tmv_josue]

Yes, I know crediar showed the video long before than waninkoko but never provided any tools to do it (AFAIK), the fact is that only with the Wanin's cIOS (thanks for the correction) is possible to do it.

And I know that devolution patches the games to function properly but it would be a nice feature.

 

[SifJar]

Yes, I know crediar showed the video long before than waninkoko but never provided any tools to do it (AFAIK), the fact is that only with the Wanin's cIOS (thanks for the correction) is possible to do it.

And I know that devolution patches the games to function properly but it would be a nice feature.

Well as I say, it should be pretty easy for someone who knows what they're doing; loading a particular title isn't hard by my understanding.

 

[wiismodrome]

If anyone knows of specific GC games with frame rate problems please post them in this thread and I'll see if I can test them in Devolution for comparison.

 

[Maxternal]

Wrath of Cortex apparently runs too fast according to the wiki. Normally this means the cpu timer is being used as a base for frame generation rather than the actual video hardware (which is pretty poor programming and why it isn't seen very often). Maybe they don't use a timer at all and just render as fast as possible.

This reminds me of a previous statement by you

Anyone who creates a game that ignores vsync should be banned from ever developing games again.

 

[wiismodrome]

Regarding vsync/tearing, I recently came across this post from one of developers of Metal Arms: Glitch in the System:

Tearing
----------
Yes, we decided to allow the tearing to achieve a smoother game. The alternative would have been to limit the game to 30FPS even in areas where it could have run at 60, or to suddenly drop the frame rate from 60 down to 30 whenever the frame rate dropped just slightly below 60. In my opinion, the tearing is the lesser of the evils and in all of our focus testing, it was never noticed. But it's obviously more noticeable to some players than others.

Different games use different solutions. Halo limits their frame rate to 30 and avoids the tearing. Jak & Daxter 2, Simpsons Hit & Run, and Metal Arms allow the tearing to achieve the maximum frame rate possible. Prince of Persia flips between 60 and 30. There is no ideal solution and it all comes down to personal preference. So, in our future games, we're looking for ways to allow the player to select which method to use. That will make everybody happy! Not sure if it'll be allowed by the console manufacturers, but we're going to give it a shot

From my own testing, the game plays fairly smoothly in Devolution, with some minor frame rate drops in certain situations. I'm going to play through again from the disc (in GC mode) for comparison.

 

[gbatenp]

What about Gc tech demo. It has some framerate drops, specially on wireframe mode and with AA turned on, it would be a good test. Is it possible, or will be possible, to run this demo?

And a stupid question about the program... it's even possible to run original GC games from their discs?? Just to try if it runs better.