Covid-19 vaccine

[Foxi4]

The vaccine is not even a cure of coronavirus and here comes another one from pfizer soon and a booster. If someone wants to think constant new injections that don't do the job they're supposed to do and were rushed to be approved is in their own best interest then by all means inject yourself on a weekly basis if that's what they tell you to do unlike pro-vaxxers who judge me I'm not going to judge anybody but I'm not taking that shit. I just exercise 5 times a week very intensely and eat healthy. I am going to be 40 in November and feeling great. I see my 93 year old grandma in a nursing home yet I social distance from her when I do and I'm required to get tested in the nursing home to see her anyway and must be negative, so I see absolutely no logic in me taking the vaccine.

Oh, I don't care if you take it or not - it's your body and you can do whatever you want with it. All I'm saying is that taking it is a good idea as it improves your odds, reduces the chances of random mutation and protects third-parties, particularly those who cannot be vaccinated for whatever reason. Ultimately the decision is yours - the vaccine is not a force field, it comes with no guarantee of preventing the virus from spreading, it simply boosts your immunity against it so that if you do catch it, you won't fall seriously ill. You can take a flu shot every season and still catch the flu, the difference being that you're unlikely to end up in an ICU over it. Swings and roundabouts, everybody's different.

 

[Deleted User]

Oh, I don't care if you take it or not - it's your body and you can do whatever you want with it. All I'm saying is that taking it is a good idea as it improves your odds, reduces the chances of random mutation and protects third-parties, particularly those who cannot be vaccinated for whatever reason. Ultimately the decision is yours - the vaccine is not a force field, it comes with no guarantee of preventing the virus from spreading, it simply boosts your immunity against it so that if you do catch it, you won't fall seriously ill. You can take a flu shot every season and still catch the flu, the difference being that you're unlikely to end up in an ICU over it. Swings and roundabouts, everybody's different.

So putting aside that it protects me which I don't buy but ok I'll play along, I'm supposed to play hero for others by reducing their risks of getting it by taking something that has no long term studies done because it hasn't been around long term. Sorry nope again if they're vaccinated they should be protected from me anyway so they should be good just like it's my choice it's their choice to get it or not. If what you say is true and they get it they should be good to go and it doesn't matter what I do. If someone is in a situation that they cannot be vaccinated why are they risking their lives by being out in society anyway? It's being put on me to protect others but that will always point back to the vaccine not working making the whole cycle pointless.

People die of the flu but I've never seen society pressuring them to get a flu shot or you need to get it to protect others.

 

[MiiJack]

Vaccines are just instructions for your body on how to deal with the potential disease you get, not a cure.

 

[Foxi4]

So putting aside that it protects me which I don't buy but ok I'll play along, I'm supposed to play hero for others by reducing their risks of getting it by taking something that has no long term studies done because it hasn't been around long term. Sorry nope again if they're vaccinated they should be protected from me anyway so they should be good just like it's my choice it's their choice to get it or not. If what you say is true and they get it they should be good to go and it doesn't matter what I do. If someone is in a situation that they cannot be vaccinated why are they risking their lives by being out in society anyway? It's being put on me to protect others but that will always point back to the vaccine not working making the whole cycle pointless.

People die of the flu but I've never seen society pressuring them to get a flu shot or you need to get it to protect others.

Well, we have seen several flu epidemics which caused a global panic, but if we set those aside, influenza kills around 290,000-650,000 people annually. So far, COVID-19 has killed 4.48 million people, and it's only emerged to the scene in late 2019. This is only the number of deaths, even more people have suffered other grievous consequences from the virus - it can cause long-lasting or even permanent damage. The stakes are orders of magnitude higher, so social pressure is obviously going to match that. Again, a young person has very little to worry about as far as their personal health is concerned. Over 80% of COVID-19 deaths on record in the U.S. are 65-and-over, and mortality is fairly high, relatively speaking. Their immune systems are just not in the best of shape, even if they are vaccinated, so it's up to us to ensure that they don't get sick, if we can help it. Again, no pressure - as far as I'm concerned you can do what you want. It's simply prudent to get vaccinated, and global data indicates that the jab is safe. Ultimately this is a question of whether you care to chip in on the effort or if you hold the belief that people at risk should simply get the jab themselves. The latter position is flawed in the sense that the jab is, again, not a force field - it boosts your immune system, it does not grant you complete immunity from the virus, which may or may not be good enough depending on how effective your immune system is. If a patient is advanced in age, the answer to that question is "not very effective", there's a reason why the elderly statistically tend to be sickly. I'd reconsider your decision if I were you, but what you do is none of my business - I can only offer explanations and recommendations, I'm not your dad.

 

[subcon959]

Vaccines are just instructions for your body on how to deal with the potential disease you get, not a cure.

I prefer to think of them as a wanted poster so your immune system recognises future threats unless they wear a disguise (mutation)

 

[tabzer]

I prefer to think of them as a wanted poster so your immune system recognises future threats unless they wear a disguise (mutation)

They end up missing the actual virus that doesn't have the same spike proteins, allowing the procreation of variants. All because of a haircut.

 

[Foxi4]

They end up missing the actual virus that doesn't have the same spike proteins, allowing the procreation of variants. All because of a haircut.

This is incorrect. The vaccine is still effective against variants of the virus, although its efficacy is reduced due to minor differences in the make-up of the different pathogens. Coronaviruses are coronaviruses, there's only so much variability to speak of. Similarly, a flu vaccine doesn't just protect you against the latest flu du jour, it protects you against a wide variety of strains, with varying degrees of effectiveness.

 

[tabzer]

This is incorrect. The vaccine is still effective against variants of the virus, although its efficacy is reduced due to minor differences in the make-up of the different pathogens. Coronaviruses are coronaviruses, there's only so much variability to speak of. Similarly, a flu vaccine doesn't just protect you against the latest flu du jour, it protects you against a wide variety of strains, with varying degrees of effectiveness.

AFAIK the vaccine trains the immune system to recognize the spike protein and not the actual virus. You can say what you are saying, but there isn't content there that suggests any cognization beyond. Flu vaccines include the whole specimen.

 

[Foxi4]

AFAIK the vaccine trains the immune system to recognize the spike protein and not the actual virus. You can say what you are saying, but there isn't content there that suggests any cognization beyond. Flu vaccines include the whole specimen.

The spike protein in Delta is already different (by one amino acid) and the vaccine is still effective against it (around 80% last I checked, compared to 96% against the original strain), so there is ample data to support what I'm saying. Claiming that this is not the case is inconsistent with the data we currently have.

 

[tabzer]

The spike protein in Delta is already different (by one amino acid) and the vaccine is still effective against it (around 80% last I checked, compared to 96% of the original strain), so there is ample data to support what I'm saying. Claiming that this is not the case is inconsistent with the data we currently have.

The suggestion that our immune system might be suspicious in constitution is interesting. I don't feed off of polls though.

This is incorrect. The vaccine is still effective against variants of the virus, although its efficacy is reduced due to minor differences in the make-up of the different pathogens.

So, incorrect, but correct. I'll take it.

 

[Deleted User]

Well, we have seen several flu epidemics which caused a global panic, but if we set those aside, influenza kills around 290,000-650,000 people annually. So far, COVID-19 has killed 4.48 million people, and it's only emerged to the scene in late 2019. This is only the number of deaths, even more people have suffered other grievous consequences from the virus - it can cause long-lasting or even permanent damage. The stakes are orders of magnitude higher, so social pressure is obviously going to match that. Again, a young person has very little to worry about as far as their personal health is concerned. Over 80% of COVID-19 deaths on record in the U.S. are 65-and-over, and mortality is fairly high, relatively speaking. Their immune systems are just not in the best of shape, even if they are vaccinated, so it's up to us to ensure that they don't get sick, if we can help it. Again, no pressure - as far as I'm concerned you can do what you want. It's simply prudent to get vaccinated, and global data indicates that the jab is safe. Ultimately this is a question of whether you care to chip in on the effort or if you hold the belief that people at risk should simply get the jab themselves. The latter position is flawed in the sense that the jab is, again, not a force field - it boosts your immune system, it does not grant you complete immunity from the virus, which may or may not be good enough depending on how effective your immune system is. If a patient is advanced in age, the answer to that question is "not very effective", there's a reason why the elderly statistically tend to be sickly. I'd reconsider your decision if I were you, but what you do is none of my business - I can only offer explanations and recommendations, I'm not your dad.

I would actually tell you to reconsider your decision, but that's not possible once you're vaxxed you cannot get unvaxxed and something happens there's nothing you can do about it, although maybe you should eventually say no when they want you to take vaccine #38 and booster shot #17, but again up to you. I can stay healthy by other natural means which is what more people should do. 78% of people who end up hospitalized from covid are obese. This is a low Vitamin D issue that the vaccine does not solve that's why vaxxed are still ending up in the hospital.

 

[leon315]

The vaccines have been demonstrated to be safe and effective, we are probably only weeks away from full FDA approval, and the fact that the vaccines are under emergency use authorization has nothing to do with the willful ignorance and stupidity associated with the aforementioned microchip claims, etc.

Edit: And you also don't seem to know what an ad hominem is.

probably u wouldn't say same thing about Astrazeneca's, just look at many deaths they had those Taiwanense after they've got AZ shots.......

 

[Lacius]

once you're vaxxed you cannot get unvaxxed and something happens there's nothing you can do about it

If you're hospitalized with COVID-19 because you are unvaccinated, a vaccination cannot help you. There is a much higher and substantiated risk of this happening than the vague and imaginary "something might happen later if you're vaccinated."

although maybe you should eventually say no when they want you to take vaccine #38 and booster shot #17

Why? Vaccines are awesome pieces of medical technology that objectively prevent illness and harm. I've probably gotten over twenty flu shots in my life. That isn't a bad thing.

I can stay healthy by other natural means

1. Just because something is "natural" doesn't mean it's automatically better than something "unnatural." That's a naturalistic fallacy.
2. The best way to protect yourself (and others around you) from COVID-19 is getting vaccinated, not "natural means."
3. Living a healthy lifestyle is good, but it isn't going to protect you from contracting COVID-19, it isn't going to prevent you from spreading COVID-19 to other people, and even people who live healthy lifestyles can get hospitalized with COVID-19.

78% of people who end up hospitalized from covid are obese.

Last I checked, approximately 99% of people who end up hospitalized from COVID-19 are unvaccinated.

that's why vaxxed are still ending up in the hospital.

Vaccinated people, broadly speaking, aren't going to the hospital.

probably u wouldn't say same thing about Astrazeneca's, just look at many deaths they had those Taiwanense after they've got AZ shots.......

Like with the J&J vaccine, the AstraZeneca has been demonstrated to be safe and effective. The risk of blood clots is extremely rare, we have mitigations in place to prevent deaths from those blood clots, and the blood clot risks (and others) are far more likely with COVID-19 than with the AstraZeneca vaccine.

 

[Deleted User]

Inventor of Mrna vaccines which is what everyone getting vaccinated is taking regrets taking Moderna in 2020.

 

[Lacius]

Inventor of Mrna vaccines which is what everyone getting vaccinated is taking regrets taking Moderna in 2020.

Robert Malone has consistently peddled unsubstantiated and debunked misinformation about COVID-19. His opinion is irrelevant.

 

[RocaBOT]

Exactly, having done one or two great things in your life does not stop you from talking out of your ass, and most great scientists that are taken to public view for things other than their original work end up doing just that: speaking out of their ass.

 

[leon315]

Like with the J&J vaccine, the AstraZeneca has been demonstrated to be safe and effective. The risk of blood clots is extremely rare, we have mitigations in place to prevent deaths from those blood clots, and the blood clot risks (and others) are far more likely with COVID-19 than with the AstraZeneca vaccine.

the CECC had reported a total of 653 post-vaccination deaths from 10.25 million vaccine doses administered in Taiwan to date

STILL INCREDIBLY HIGH, those people had survive 2020, those people believed that vaccine was supposed to protect them instead it was the vaccine the cause of their death, SMH btw those are vaccines donated from Japan, also Singapore has banned Astrazeneca vaccine too.

The currently only reliable ones are Pfizer, Moderna and Sinovac, the Chinese ones.

 

[RocaBOT]

653 post-vaccination deaths means anyone that died after getting the shot is counted, regardless of the cause of death. Most of them are not linked to the vaccine, and you're literally using those numbers wrongly to instigate fear and distrust in others. Please stop.

 

[Lacius]

STILL INCREDIBLY HIGH, those people had survive 2020, those people believed that vaccine was supposed to protect them instead it was the vaccine the cause of their death, SMH btw those are vaccines donated from Japan, also Singapore has banned Astrazeneca vaccine too.

The currently only reliable ones are Pfizer, Moderna and Sinovac, the Chinese ones.

Correlation does not equal causation. From the CECC:

A total of 145 autopsies of the 653 deceased have been completed so far, with 139 indicating no direct link to the COVID-19 vaccine and six cases still undetermined, according to CECC.

 

[RocaBOT]

I'll even play along : in the same amount of time (5 months, since vaccination started there on a general scale on March 22), and using the death rate from 2019 (pre-COVID-19), around 3200 people died in the same timeframe and were not vaccinated (because COVID-19 was not a thing, and neither were its vaccines).
I will conclude that not being vaccinated from COVID-19 is what kills people, and does so more that the vaccins according to your own logic. What are you going to do with that @leon315 ?

Disclaimer: obviously this argument is as meaningless as the original one from @leon315's post is, this is just an example to demonstrate that this logic is completely flawed. You cannot say "X people died after doing something" or "X people died without doing something" and conclude that this something that was done or not done is the cause of death, that's just ludicrous.