Hacking BootMii: Differing Opinions

[bfandango]

I recently bricked a Wii after softmodding it. I used BannerBomb + HackMii but the tutorial I used said to skip the BootMii installation, so I did. I later broke the system menu by doing the wrong thing, and because I don't have BootMii I'm pretty much screwed.

I posted here and the GBATemp users were (largely) helpful and informative. (Thanks btw!) Some users commented that any tutorial that tells you to skip BootMii installation when you have the opportunity to install it is making a big, big mistake. That makes sense to me, since I would have been able to save my Wii if I had it.

So today I was looking around for some better quality tutorials than the one I started with, including this very nice GBATemp one. However this tutorial at WiiBrew.org says, in big bold letters!

10. The Homebrew Channel should install and the installer should report a success. If you'd like, you may also install DVDx if you are planning on using homebrew that needs it. Do not install BootMii if this is your first time using any homebrew software! It is for advanced users only.

Am I taking crazy pills here? Why would WiiBrew advise anybody to skip this? If you have the boot files on your Wii, you'll see a pretty menu at startup time. If you remove the files or use a different SD, the drive will blink its LEDs a couple of times before loading the system menu. How is that for advanced users only? Isn't this totally irresponsible to be advising users to do?! I'm curious what GBATemp has to say about this.

 

[Smiff]

agreed its confusing, luckily none of the wad installs i did bricked my wii before i installed bootmii as boot2.
that was probably written when bootmii was new?

 

[bfandango]

agreed its confusing, luckily none of the wad installs i did bricked my wii before i installed bootmii as boot2.
that was probably written when bootmii was new?

I know what you mean. The wiki article was last updated on May 31st, not too long ago.

 

[WiiPower]

Sorry, i have to apologize that my guide does not really advise you to install BootMii as boot2 if you have the chance to do it. But before you modify the system files in any way, it's logical to inform yourself about the possible consequences if it.

My guide and the guide at WiiBrew are intended for HOMEBREW. I bet you bricked by an attempt to get backups working or to customize your system menu. The 2 guides are not about that, and that is why brick prevention is not a big topic in them, there is only few homebrew with brick danger, and most if not all of them tell you about it, and that you should have some brick prevention.

So if you want to blame somebody else than yourself, blame the one who wrote the softmodding guide you followed...

 

[FAST6191]

In my opinion Wiibrew and the people behind it are somewhat more cautious than those who write tutorials and the like for GBAtemp and similar sites. This is a good thing in that it means stuff is usually well tested and based in sound science but in other ways it limits their stuff to less noticeable (but no less or often more fundamental) things.
For instance bootmii changes the way the wii works while changing the health screen to a picture of something else does nothing special but both can screw up a wii.

In this case I think it is a case of intent, Bootmii (when installed as boot2) represents a fundamentally different way of doing things (all wii code at present aside from bootmii and things that have started using this) rely on IOS modules (custom or otherwise). This shift has yet to happen though and the main people that care about such things are the more advanced users and developers, those just jumping into homebrew tend not to be in this category.
A secondary reason might be that being as low level as it is means a bootmii caused brick (which is hard but not impossible to do and as mentioned by them it is still beta code with likely more than a few bugs lurking) is going to be next to impossible to fix.

However one of the niceties about being such a low level is that it also affords serious recovery/backup abilities as you have seen. As we play around with things that can brick a wii if you are not careful this recovery optional is very useful, the developers probably did not intend for or envisage this hence their remark.

 

[m00k]

just a little add

bootmii is still in beta, because of this they advise only advanced users install it.

I dont think they were trying to confuse, just emphasis that bootmii has had limited testing.

Im sorry for your loss

 

[bfandango]

Sorry, i have to apologize that my guide does not really advise you to install BootMii as boot2 if you have the chance to do it. But before you modify the system files in any way, it's logical to inform yourself about the possible consequences if it.

My guide and the guide at WiiBrew are intended for HOMEBREW. I bet you bricked by an attempt to get backups working or to customize your system menu. The 2 guides are not about that, and that is why brick prevention is not a big topic in them, there is only few homebrew with brick danger, and most if not all of them tell you about it, and that you should have some brick prevention.

So if you want to blame somebody else than yourself, blame the one who wrote the softmodding guide you followed...

My purpose for this post was not to blame anybody but to figure out this apparent contradiction from two reputable and respected sources. The users here told me that any tutorial skipping BootMii was dead wrong. OTOH most of the users here are probably going way beyond loading and running HomeBrew apps "out of the box." And I now understand that modifying boot2 is by far the most dangerous step in the process, and actually the only one that could potentially brick anything in the softmod process. So it makes sense that you would advise first-time HBC users to skip that part.

I definitely don't blame anybody for my wii getting killed, I did that myself and anybody who wants to mod a system has to accept that possibility. On the contrary I appreciate all the work everybody on the scene has put into this, and how helpful the community is.

On the other hand, two weeks ago I was a newb, and I didn't know there was a distinction between homebrew, backup loaders, CSMs or anything else. So I wouldn't have known that the tutorial I followed had left me exposed if I went outside of "vanilla" HBC use. So maybe that would be a helpful warning to include in your tutorial - something like "HBC is a relatively safe environment for running custom software on your Wii. However if you get into SoftMii, CSMs, [etc etc] or other risky activity, your first step should be to install BootMii or Preloader to protect your Wii from getting bricked." Or not

It's your tutorial and you provide it free of charge, so thank-you for that.

WiiPower, thanks for clearing that up it's helpful.

- fandango

 

[Smiff]

respect to fandango for the good attitude. i hope you find a way to recover your wii? i think if/when i brick mine i'll be a lot less cool..

 

[Slimmmmmm]

respect to fandango for the good attitude. i hope you find a way to recover your wii? i think if/when i brick mine i'll be a lot less cool..

I agree, very cool attitude.

Once there is a sys menu > 4, you might be able to sort it all then. Fingers crossed it's soon

 

[ether2802]

Well the thing is that you don't need BootMii to install HBC and play with HB apps, but to use some heavy HB tools and region-sysmenu-IOS changers you definately need to install it, and bootmii isn't really needed at all for normal users, ironically it is just needed for fella' that follows dangerous tools from the TT enemys...!!

 

[fogbank]

And I now understand that modifying boot2 is by far the most dangerous step in the process, and actually the only one that could potentially brick anything in the softmod process.

In my opinion you have that backwards. The concept of modifying boot2 is potentially dangerous, and yes if you bricked your Wii during the installation of BootMii you would have a very bad brick, but the HackMii installer and BootMii itself have had much more development time by skilled coders than any softmod "pack" or "guide" you will find here. If anything is more likely to brick your Wii it is "softmodding" by altering IOSes, installing custom system menus, and even messing with cIOS.


QUOTE(bfandango @ Jun 8 2009, 07:55 AM) "HBC is a relatively safe environment for running custom software on your Wii. However if you get into SoftMii, CSMs, [etc etc] or other risky activity, your first step should be to install BootMii or Preloader to protect your Wii from getting bricked."

That you got right

 

[codone]

I agree, like they said -- Installing Bootmii as boot2 (and doing a NAND backup) is about the single most important thing you can do, and should (have been) done immediately to preserve the state of the Wii as it is NOW. Then you can install IOSs, install WADs, do anything you please, since you are 100% safe. I would be very nervous messing with a Wii that didn't have Bootmii (as boot2) installed.

Team Twizzlers are very trustworthy coders, and, its been out for about a month now so countless thousands have installed it -- not one mention of a brick on installation that I've seen. I waited a week before I installed it, in case there might be problems.

I know all I'm saying is too late to help you now. I'm Sorry to hear about your brick..!

 

[PKGINGO]

I don't know what version of the system menu you were on, hopefully 3.2. If you were, then, you still have hope.

http://savemii.net/

I would get a modchip installed and run a homebrew tool if you installed a bad file or an update disc to restore the system menu.

If you just tried to modify the system menu, you actually shouldn't even need a mod chip. Just wait for a newer revision of the system menu to come out, however, if you banner bricked, and your not on 3.2, theres not much you can do that I know of, other than installing bootmii via a flasher.