Gaming Backwards compatibility is a "must"

[TheDarkGreninja]

Firstly, starting your argument with stating the idea of a second screen is not helping you, as that goes along with the whole "Wii U is a dual-screen experience; Switch is a single-screen experience", but assuming what you meant to say was that it was a side effect of needing a screen for off-TV play... no. No, it is not "quite obviously" a side effect of that; that is, once again, just you projecting your opinions onto Nintendo. There's much more tech involved to get all of those other features working than just a screen which, if anything, would imply the capability for off-TV play is the side effect here.

Look all the technology involved is obviously there for off screen play and doesn't mean a dual screen experience, with the tech being wifi streaming as well as a touch screen, these two pieces are key to off tv play. You point out games that came out much later in the Wii U's lifespan when you look at even Nintendo land the gamepad just acts as the console itself and is a generic second screen. This was mainly used for multiplayer. Of course, there were a few cool things like the octopus game but this was a small thing (being able to see the back and the front) We saw even more use of the gamepad more interestingly much later down the line as Nintendo themselves had to get their heads around this console (star fox zero, guard and Kirby and the rainbow curse.) But when we look at games like Pikmin which was mostly a single screen experience and this was one of Nintendo's earliest first party titles. You could say that this was because they didn't want to use the Wii u gamepads features, but then we create an issue, was this console ever really meant to be a dual screen experience? I highly doubt it.

 

[Saiyan Lusitano]

It would be cool but because the hardware's different Nintendo won't be able to offer native BC, they will however have VC 3DS and VC Wii U so you'll be able to buy them again if you want.

I'm fine with it. I keep my Nintendo consoles.

EDIT

make the wiiu touch screen controller compatible problem solved

Nintendo doesn't even sell the Wii U GamePads separately (maybe in US bot not Europe). If you want one, either buy off the eBay marketplace or buy a Wii U console bundle.

I'm planning on buying the Wind Waker HD Premium Wii U Bundle if retailers decide to sell for a reasonable price (somewhere around £99-150).

 

[grossaffe]

Look all the technology involved is obviously there for off screen play and doesn't mean a dual screen experience, with the tech being wifi streaming as well as a touch screen, these two pieces are key to off tv play. You point out games that came out much later in the Wii U's lifespan when you look at even Nintendo land the gamepad just acts as the console itself and is a generic second screen. This was mainly used for multiplayer. Of course, there were a few cool things like the octopus game but this was a small thing (being able to see the back and the front) We saw even more use of the gamepad more interestingly much later down the line as Nintendo themselves had to get their heads around this console (star fox zero, guard and Kirby and the rainbow curse.) But when we look at games like Pikmin which was mostly a single screen experience and this was one of Nintendo's earliest first party titles. You could say that this was because they didn't want to use the Wii u gamepads features, but then we create an issue, was this console ever really meant to be a dual screen experience? I highly doubt it.

No, it is not obviously for off-TV play. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, that does not make it so. Off-TV play is the easy default thing to do with it when you can't come up with any other use for it in your game, therefore there were a lot of games making use of it that way. That does not mean that is what it was intended for, it only says that's how it wound up being used often. Just because every game does not make use of the dual screen capabilities does not mean that wasn't the intent of the console.

And no, all the technology involved is not for Off-TV play. The only technology involved for Off-TV play is the screen that streams video from the console. Having it be touch-sensitive is not necessary for Off-TV play since a TV is purely an output device; adding touch-sensitivity adds an input feature beyond what you get on a TV. The Gyroscopes, again, have nothing to do with Off-TV play, but they do enable the tablet to have the world you view through it to pan with your movements; something that goes beyond going off-TV.

I also only mentioned one game that came later in the console's life span, but that doesn't mean it was the only game I could have named that made use of touch features. Nintendo Land, again, made use of the touch aspect. New Super Mario Bros. U made use of it for a different kind of multiplayer experience where the player with the gamepad could conjure platforms out of thin air to help or hurt the other players. It clearly had uses in asymmetric gameplay, which had previously been experimented with back in the Gamecube/GBA connectivity era with Pacman VS.. If this was not the intent of the Wii U, they would not have made a point of trying to get Wii U owners to own Nintendo Land that shows off the consoles many features that go beyond Off-TV play. The point was to show gamers and developers the new gameplay possibilities that it opened up.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

No, it is not obviously for off-TV play. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, that does not make it so. Off-TV play is the easy default thing to do with it when you can't come up with any other use for it in your game, therefore there were a lot of games making use of it that way. That does not mean that is what it was intended for, it only says that's how it wound up being used often. Just because every game does not make use of the dual screen capabilities does not mean that wasn't the intent of the console.

And no, all the technology involved is not for Off-TV play. The only technology involved for Off-TV play is the screen that streams video from the console. Having it be touch-sensitive is not necessary for Off-TV play since a TV is purely an output device; adding touch-sensitivity adds an input feature beyond what you get on a TV. The Gyroscopes, again, have nothing to do with Off-TV play, but they do enable the tablet to have the world you view through it to pan with your movements; something that goes beyond going off-TV.

I also only mentioned one game that came later in the console's life span, but that doesn't mean it was the only game I could have named that made use of touch features. Nintendo Land, again, made use of the touch aspect. New Super Mario Bros. U made use of it for a different kind of multiplayer experience where the player with the gamepad could conjure platforms out of thin air to help or hurt the other players. It clearly had uses in asymmetric gameplay, which had previously been experimented with back in the Gamecube/GBA connectivity era with Pacman VS. If this was not the intent of the Wii U, they would not have made a point of trying to get Wii U owners to own Nintendo Land that shows off the consoles many features that go beyond Off-TV play. The point was to show gamers and developers the new gameplay possibilities that it opened up.

You obviously don't understand.
1. Touch sensitivity? That's a feature that was added for navigation as well as a few gamepad features. You point out NSMBU but to use those touch controls you'll probably be looking at the gamepad the most as the tv becomes irrelevant. Just look at SMM that entire game was made for the tablet and the TV was useless.
2.Gyroscope? That was obviously there for the fact that it was cheap for it to be there and was a useful mechanic in games.
3. The intent was quite obviously for users to play the games on the tablet and get an HD experience on the console. We see very few games take control of the dual screens, the only ones I can think of are splatoon and a few games in Nintendo land as well as star fox guard. We base assumptions on likelihoods, and we can quite clearly see Nintendo didnt want to go through with a dual screen experience, they wanted the wii u gamepad to be its own entirely seperate experience.
And look here, when we see nintendo try to make an actual dual screen experience it ended up being horrible just look at star fox zero. The wii u gamepad was always meant to be its own experience away from the TV.

 

[Foxi4]

Native BC is completely useless and ends up holding the hardware back unless cleverly implemented. Emulation is acceptable though, and I expect the NX to have a vast VC library. personally VC is not my thing though - I buy new consoles to play new games, not old ones that I can cheaply and easily get on legacy systems.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Native BC is completely useless and ends up holding the hardware back unless cleverly implemented. Emulation is acceptable though, and I expect the NX to have a vast VC library. personally VC is not my thing though - I buy new consoles to play new games, not old ones that I can cheaply and easily get on legacy systems.

Well the switch most definitely wont be able to emulate the Wii U but the GC and Wii are a possibility.

 

[Foxi4]

Well the switch most definitely wont be able to emulate the Wii U but the GC and Wii are a possibility.

I wouldn't bet on anything beyond the N64, Nintendo likes their VC near-perfect, with a couple of exceptions. I also wouldn't bank on the Switch's processing power before we get the official specs sheet, we don't know how much the SoC was scaled back to accomondate Nintendo's needs. Everything is a big "maybe" right now.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

I wouldn't bet on anything beyond the N64, Nintendo likes their VC near-perfect, with a couple of exceptions. I also wouldn't bank on the Switch's processing power before we get the official specs sheet, we don't know how much the SoC was scaled back to accomondate Nintendo's needs. Everything is a big "maybe" right now.

Well at worst case its a few A57 chips which are faster than jaguar so thats not an issue, at best theyre denver which are probably the best CPU's on the market. And i doubt nvidia would make a product without their flagship chips.
I should point out that the X1 was capable of running dolphin with a few minor hiccups so if nintendo optimise this thing well with a custom pascal chip I'd this is within a chance for GC and possibly wii although wii will be harder.

 

[Foxi4]

Well at worst case its a few A57 chips which are faster than jaguar so thats not an issue, at best theyre denver which are probably the best CPU's on the market. And i doubt nvidia would make a product without their flagship chips.
I should point out that the X1 was capable of running dolphin with a few minor hiccups so if nintendo optimise this thing well with a custom pascal chip I'd this is within a chance for GC and possibly wii although wii will be harder.

It's not a matter of what cores they use but how they're clocked. It's supposed to be a console with a focus on portability - they will downclock them in order to maximise battery life. There's also the question of how many cores the GPU will include. The whole architecture is scalable, there's no guarantee of performance just based on the rumoured chip - we need to see the actual implementation. This is a tablet, not a standard box with a proper cooling system and direct access to mains power. If you don't know what I mean, compare the benchmarks of the Pixel C and the Shield TV - you'll see a performance gap despite the fact that both run on the X1. You'd also have to define what you mean by "faster than Jaguar", that's a very vague description.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

It's not a matter of what cores they use but how they're clocked. It's supposed to be a console with a focus on portability - they will downclock them in order to maximise battery life. There's also the question of how many cores the GPU will include. The whole architecture is scalable, there's no guarantee of performance just based on the rumoured chip - we need to see the actual implementation. This is a tablet, not a standard box with a proper cooling system and direct access to mains power. If you don't know what I mean, compare the benchmarks of the Pixel C and the Shield TV - you'll see a performance gap despite the fact that both run on the X1. You'd also have to define what you mean by "faster than Jaguar", that's a very vague description.

Quick note on my A57 statement, its faster than jaguar in terms of executing code. When i said the X1 can run emulators i was specifically talking about the google pixel c. Right now I think the rumoured specs are wrong simply based on many other reports by WSJ's Takashi Mochizuki saying the switch will use a pascal chip. I'd say around 300 CUDA cores although... Anyways, the console can quite easily overclock when docked, another rumour is that the dock has additional power but you and I have already taled about this so theres not much point bringing it up.

 

[Foxi4]

Quick note on my A57 statement, its faster than jaguar in terms of executing code. When i said the X1 can run emulators i was specifically talking about the google pixel c. Right now I think the rumoured specs are wrong simply based on many other reports by WSJ's Takashi Mochizuki saying the switch will use a pascal chip. I'd say around 300 CUDA cores although... Anyways, the console can quite easily overclock when docked, another rumour is that the dock has additional power but you and I have already taled about this so theres not much point bringing it up.

Overclocking is not an option inside the dock because it's not the power supply that's the main issue here, it's the thermal profile. You can't magically cool the tablet "better" when it's docked. It's feasible if the Switch runs at stock values of the X2, or even just at performance comparable to the X1, but we need to see it first to make a judgement call.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Overclocking is not an option inside the dock because it's not the power supply that's the main issue here, it's the thermal profile. You can't magically cool the tablet "better" when it's docked.

Im sure the cooling is pretty good. And we did see pretty large cooling vents on the top of the console.

 

[Slartibartfast42]

Why would you even want BC? Your Wii U and 3DS won't stop working. They have full piracy, the Switch won't. Why would you want to have buy games again for the Switch when you can get them for the WiiU/3DS for free? I'd rather save all my video game money to buy new Switch games.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Why would you even want BC? Your Wii U and 3DS won't stop working. They have full piracy, the Switch won't. Why would you want to have buy games again for the Switch when you can get them for the WiiU/3DS for free? I'd rather save all my video game money to buy new Switch games.

Some people dont own wii u or 3ds.

 

[GilgameshArcher]

No its not a must. Its a possibilite only...

 

[sarkwalvein]

Some people dont own wii u or 3ds.

They can buy one.

 

[Foxi4]

Honestly, I've owned a PS4 since launch and not once, not one single time did I feel the "need" for it to have BC. Since buying it I played a grand total of two PS3 games, and I just dusted my PS3 to play them - it's not a big deal. I'm fine with emulation, but making BC a priority is weird to me. Here I am, dropping 200-300 bucks on a brand-spanking-new system, I can't wait to play... old games on it? Okay. A Gamecube costs next to nothing and Wii's are even cheaper, what's even the point? I already played the old games, can I just have the new ones?

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Overclocking is not an option inside the dock because it's not the power supply that's the main issue here, it's the thermal profile. You can't magically cool the tablet "better" when it's docked. It's feasible if the Switch runs at stock values of the X2, or even just at performance comparable to the X1, but we need to see it first to make a judgement call.

That's not necessarily true, if the bottom is vented as well you could theoretically have blower-style cooling going straight through the tablet

Not necessarily the best solution, but it's possible

 

[Foxi4]

That's not necessarily true, if the bottom is vented as well you could theoretically have blower-style cooling going straight through the tablet

Not necessarily the best solution, but it's possible

It would improve airflow to some extent, but at that thickness it's hard to even shove a heatsink into the case, so I'm not sure how you imagine it'd improve cooling in any significant way. For active cooling to work you need a surface to radiate heat with, just blowing air directly onto the chip and crossing your fingers won't do much. I sincerely doubt Nintendo would implement a weird fan like that, it's far more likely that the vents are there to allow some airflow and the SoC just sits there bare like in every other tablet.

Just to explain how little space is available, here's a teardown of the Pixel C tablet, featuring the Tegra X1:

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Google+Pixel+C+Teardown/62277

The majority of space is taken by the battery because driving a beast of a CPU and a screen that size takes a whole lot of power. if you think there's ample space for an elaborate cooling solution, you're dreaming. The best you can count on is that the back of the case will be covered with a thin heatspreader, that's it. Forget about any form of airflow, those things are tightly packed, and the Switch will be no different.

 

[KingVamp]

It would improve airflow to some extent, but at that thickness it's hard to even shove a heatsink into the case, so I'm not sure how you imagine it'd improve cooling in any significant way. For active cooling to work you need a surface to radiate heat with, just blowing air directly onto the chip and crossing your fingers won't do much. I sincerely doubt Nintendo would implement a weird fan like that, it's far more likely that the vents are there to allow some airflow and the SoC just sits there bare like in every other tablet.

I also doubt a fan in the console even if it turns on only when dock, but I don't think it is an impossibility. A lot of people around the web seem to be so sure it is a fan in there, tho.