1. Onibi

    Onibi GBAtemp Regular
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    Why the hell not esp. if any TZ / CFW is released why hold that back. It just makes the whole thing more complicated and less comfortable :O?
     
  2. TotalInsanity4

    TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord
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    It's possible that they're holding out on Nintendo "patching" the wrong thing
     
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  3. Onibi

    Onibi GBAtemp Regular
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    I would get that they wanna make sure that the HW rev. landing is really fixing it. Beyond that I see no reason.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Ok get then getting back to the original branch off point:
    I think we should have something like a TZ (or even bootrom) low level flash mode which protects from bricks. Since now we came to the conclusion that we can mess with the trust chain ... somehow :D

    Also, let's flash sysNAND (emuNAND still makes sense, to run an OFW and a CFW side by side)
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
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  4. Zulnoth

    Zulnoth Member
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    The reason given for this is that Tegra x1 is not limited to Nintendo hardware, it's not a fully custom SoC, so this exploit would(and has been proven to) work on other tegra x1 based devices. From an ethical point of view, the hacker that would be most likely to release this (reswitched: ktemkin) doesn't want to release it.
     
  5. Onibi

    Onibi GBAtemp Regular
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    Thanks for the explanation. However, I very much disagree with the flawed idealism here (and I am not fully convinced that ethics really has anything to do with it):

    - First of all, the Tegra is not very widely used and was by no means a commercial success outside the switch.
    - Second, it's like saying: "Uh meltdown is bad, let's not release it". What do they think the governments or blackhats do? They are going to look into it, find the bug, abuse it, and instead of it being widely known, people are not going to expect it. Terrible ethics. At least after a release, the issue and danger is more widely known.
    - Third, the bootrom or TZ bugs are defeating hypervisors- and TPM-like mechanisms, thus releasing the devices to their owners (removing corporate oversight). When has that become unethical? What flawed hacker logic is that? Tell them to read more Stallman and less lobby whitepapers.
    - Lastly, we are going to see a hardware implementation of it anyway. At which point ktemkin has threatened to release it. Worst case, no TX modchip will come because of this and another hacker will eventually sit down, find and release it. Or it will get leaked by somebody who has had enough of the hold-back game.

    Basically, there is no ethics in holding back knowledge. Knowledge will find it's way, and specifically in this case there is no purpose to hold it back as the Terga was not a commercial success otherwise. Not to mention that this is defeating technology that prevents owners from using their device fully. It will come out either way and in the meantime everybody is held hostage to ktemkins will and threat. All this is doing is creating a stall so that nothing can be released by anybody who wants to make a bit of money with it. I find that even more unethical.

    And we are sitting on or asses, ready to develop, learn and have fun with the OS, not even being able to play. Ethics? Read more nietzsche, scene! Read more Stallman! And stop picture and video releasing (ego boosting).

    (Fail0verflow started all this criminally stupid self-promoting pointless BS.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  6. Zulnoth

    Zulnoth Member
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    Whilst i hear your opinions, unfortunately it doesn't matter what you consider ethical or unethical. Ktemkin did the work required to find the exploit, what they decide to do with their knowledge is up to them. If you want to develop and release an exploit, go right ahead.

    Regarding your "waiting to develop" point - bootrom execution is not required to develop. Homebrew is out right now for 3.0, you can develop away. Furthermore, when SciresM is done with his CFW - your development will be able to work on 1.0-4.1 too! Great deal, hey?
     
  7. Onibi

    Onibi GBAtemp Regular
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    I have no interest in developing an exploit when four hands full of people likely have them. Too much work for potentially no reward. People could release something any day, while I would take forever to even get into the details. And I think exactly this is keeping others from doing it as well. (Also exploits are not really my cup of tea. Not interested in them, at all.)

    However, my point was that these people can not argue ethics with such a flawed logic.

    Concerning "knowledge is theirs". If you disregard ethics, I agree, you can do whatever you want as long as it benefits you. If however they claim to have ethics, I disagree.

    It is unethical:
    - Keeping knowledge hostage and locked away as property is never right under any hacker or open mentality. It is the essence of selfish. That's what corporations are based on but not societies.
    - It does not benefit society. They have attained their abilities from others (society), not contributing back is effectively stealing (same selfishness that people dislike in copyright infringement, and that is hurting - if anybody - investors not society).

    I and many others likely are not on a 3.0.0 switch. We are skeptic to upgrade to have a limited development console and hurt our low-level chances in the process. Thus we are stalled, fractured and unmotivated. What we need is an open system and more traction. I truly belief that the switch scene can be one of the biggest, but all this holding back and stalling is just keeping a movement from happening. Without more people, we have less knowledge shared, less development, less users for developed stuff and thus ultimately less motivation.

    For me that goes double, as I am interested in system level development and only really motivated if I can do this with others (since this is my personal time) and can tackle problems with them and learn with them. I don't want to be part of a small group on a discourse server (that in addition then mostly communicates privately). I would like to see a community on github.

    It is less of a question of "can you write user-space programs in C", because I can do that any day on any of my computers. It is a question of "are you motivated by the community and the technology to do so".
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
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  8. salamandrusker

    salamandrusker GBAtemp Regular
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    lately I'm seeing people who had great knowledge break the chain of trust not the device but the people ... what is the use of having an exploit but I can share it with anyone? Would not it be better to say that it is impossible to do it and not go around? if there is a risk of bricks and warns there is no one left injured but if you get more people can take advantage of their devices is welcome the work of someone who did it, perhaps in the future another contribution what is owed. Motivation is lost when there is speculation and little movement. The best option is a modchip, I prefer to pay for something solid and real to the non-ethics of a few. Executer Team you can now get the modchip that you are going to cover and win the trust of all
     
  9. Deathscreton

    Deathscreton GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    Watch out with all that logic there bud, you might offend someone with that train of thought.
     
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  10. Kafluke

    Kafluke GBAtemp Guru
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    If/when they release, you can trust it will be a solid product with constant updates. In the words of many, "This isn't some internet troll. This is Team Xecuter. If you don't know who they are do your fracking (I'm paraphrasing) homework!"
     
  11. SciresM

    SciresM Developer
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    Hey, all:

    I don't really think this is the thread to talk about exploit release schedules/TX stuff -- everyone who follows my advice on not updating will be able to use Atmosphere, in time -- my work is meant to be released. I think further discussion can be held in other threads.

    Also, I'll be back to regular dev schedule very shortly -- the past week I've been highly preoccupied with some other, unrelated stuff, but that's finally winding down :)
     
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  12. Natehaxx

    Natehaxx GBAtemp Maniac
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    we know you gonna deliver once the time is right michael
     
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  13. mastermx

    mastermx Advanced Member
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    This is so exciting. Thank you for the amazing work SciresM. This is going to be awesome and open up doors of modding possibilities!

    So glad I stuck to firmware 2.3. The switch has been collecting dust since BOTW came out! XD
     
  14. Earth4Heaven

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    Thanks for the update Michael. Can't wait to watch github like its the superbowl again. A big thanks to TuxSH as well.
     
  15. TheCyberQuake

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    Hey @SciresM, just curious and want to put a community debate to rest. Does fusee gelee exploit rely on patchable exploits? As in even though the main vulnerability isn't patchable, are the requirements to get there and exploit it with software patchable?
    Many people in the community seem to be updating against your recommendation because "we have bootrom exploit" and seem to be thinking they will get software bootrom exploit in any firmware, and I believe that to be incorrect.
    Edit: also if that's something that needs to be kept secret for any reason right now then I'm perfectly fine with that. I don't want this to come across as pushing for release or trying to force info out, I'm just trying to clear up community confusion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
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  16. salamandrusker

    salamandrusker GBAtemp Regular
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    Great news from scires, I would like to see hbl can interpret xci under emunand and working from the sd loadiine style. I think that for the beginning this would be fantastic. I would also like to see some modchip, I really like the idea, scires please get something out soon, even if it's beta to go testing
    greetings to all
     
  17. LuigiGold

    LuigiGold Advanced Member
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    Don't wanna be impatient or asshole, but how much is left for the CFW to be released?

    Don't want to press you, much less. Just asking.

    And what's the difference between 1.0.0 and 2.0.0-3.0.0 for being the latter released later (a few months after 1.0.0 release).

    Don't know if I explain myself, I know 1.0.0 is fairly way easier to hack (because jamais vu), but if I had to guess...

    1.0.0: would be released in April.

    2.0.0-3.0.0: would be released in June-July at most.

    3.0.1-4.1.0: would be released in December 2018-January 2019 at most.

    5.0.0 and above: much much later (not counting TX), it would be released during 2019 or even later.

    That's what I think they'll be released, but, of course, you and your team can do whateverr you want, I don't want to press you, really. I appreciate your work.

    Greetings.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
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  18. Zulnoth

    Zulnoth Member
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    Read the thread dude. it's written everywhere. There's no time frame set. It's a small team, and there's a LOT to do. it'll be done when it's done.
     
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  19. LuigiGold

    LuigiGold Advanced Member
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    Read the message dude. I'm just guessing (also you're right, it'll be done when it'll be done, not faster and not longer).

    Greetings.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  20. Zulnoth

    Zulnoth Member
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    Dude, i don't intend on coming across sassy, it's just tiring reading you guys asking this non stop.

    These people have jobs, and lives. This is a hobby, and a massive task/undertaking. It will be done when it's done. Could they give you an estimate? probably. But they won't and why would they bother? So much can happen between now and completion, so many different things could derail them, and then they would have ppl whining. When there's so much to do, why even try give an estimate. We'll probably know a week or two before it drops if we're lucky and that's enough.
     
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