4 TB Seagate / DIOS MIOS issues

Discussion in 'Wii - Backup Loaders' started by Elliander, May 4, 2013.

  1. Elliander
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    Elliander GBAtemp Fan

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    I finally managed to get a 4 TB hard drive. I was able to successfully format the entire drive to a single FAT32 partition with a 32k cluster size. I then transferred the contents of my old hard drive to the new one. It was recognized by USB Loader GX without any problems, but when I attempted to play a Gamecube game it says:

    "To run GameCube games with DIOS MIOS you need to use a 512 bytes/sector Hard Drive."

    I also had an issue where EmuNAND games that worked with the previous hard drive no longer worked with the new hard drive. What's weird is that I set up the old drive exactly the same way. I do see an option for 512 in "Fat32 GUI Formatter", but I thought that was cluster size. Does anyone have any ideas?
     


  2. kehkou

    kehkou does what Nintendon't

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    That font color makes hard to read. does it happen if you dual partiton to 2tb with that same drive?
     
  3. Elliander
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    Elliander GBAtemp Fan

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    Font Color? I haven't tried a dual partition yet, but getting ready to re-size the partitions to do that and see if it helps. I am going to create a 1 TB partition with 512 instead of 32k for cluster size this time, but I am not entirely clear on which should be the primary.
     
  4. kehkou

    kehkou does what Nintendon't

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    Im using Dark Tempstyle so it is hard to see the grey letters.
    The primary should be the DIOS MIOS partition.
     
  5. Elliander
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    Elliander GBAtemp Fan

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    When I selected 512 in the FAT32 Formatter it said "You must choose a cluster size bigger than the sector size" so the Sector size is already 512... hmm...

    EDIT: I wonder if it is possible that the problem resulted from using a Quick Format before, but I thought the only consequence of a Quick Format is that it doesn't check for bad clusters. I am doing a full format now though of the 1 TB section and will move all the data to that section and make it primary to see if that fixes it.

    I am really hoping this isn't one of those drives that can only be 512bytes per sector on a logical partition. I know the entire industry is moving away from 512byte sectors. If that is the case the only way for MIOS DIOS to ever work with a 4 TB drive would be to make it possible for it to access logical partitions. Or maybe it just has to be a partition smaller than a certain size in order for it to create 512 byte sectors?

    Anyway, I will try different things out over the next few days and report back either way what happens. This one format is going to take 10 hours by itself and I had it resizing the partitions all last night. If it turns out it doesn't work I could always give the 4 TB to my PS3, but in that case I am not really sure then what the largest size drive is that I should get for the Wii.
     
  6. PsyBlade

    PsyBlade Snake Charmer

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    sector size is a hardware thing
    it can't be changed by any formating/partitioning option

    some harddisks emulate a different sector size in their firmware
    but I have never seen credible claims of one where that setting can be changed
     
  7. Elliander
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    Elliander GBAtemp Fan

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    It can be done with logical partitions, but I have not seen it work with a Primary Partition before.
     
  8. PsyBlade

    PsyBlade Snake Charmer

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    no it can't
    you are probably thinking of something else
     
  9. Elliander
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    Elliander GBAtemp Fan

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  10. PsyBlade

    PsyBlade Snake Charmer

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    that link only talks about alignment
    (if you have a drive that has 4KiB sectors but emulates 512B sectors in firmware you have a align the partitions/filesystems proprerly or performance will suck)

    you don't even have such a drive or dm wouldn't complain
    (yours has 4KiB sectors but does not emulate the old 512B ones

    changing sector size (real or emulated) size is not mentioned at all
    even logical partitions are only a very minor topic
     
  11. Jayro

    Jayro MediCat DVD and Mini Windows 10 Developer

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    4TB is a bit extreme. Use a smaller harddrive. A 750GB should hold all the Gamecube ISOs you could ever want to play.
     
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  12. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    I suppose 4kiB Hard drive emulating the 512B are not exposing the 4KiB to the host.
    When formating a partition, the partition table/header should store 512 as if the drive were a 512 one.

    Maybe you need a specific drive's firmware or application to force it in emulation mode and report 512B instead of 4kiB? but you need to reformat it after doing that.

    If the partition header state that you have a 4KiB sector size, then DIOS MIOS won't work (and USBLoaderGX prevent you from launching the game, as users would only report black screens, errors in DM, etc. while it's not a loader's problem).

    You could "fake" the sector size by editing the boot sector's data manually, but it could not work at all depending on your HDD's firmware handling sector's number.
    When you write a file to the drive, it could detect that the host is trying to write to the second 512B sector, while in reallity it will be written in the "second part of one 4kIB sector" and not in the second 4KiB sector.
    I don't know if I'm writing this easy enough to understand. Your link above explain it.
     
  13. Elliander
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    Elliander GBAtemp Fan

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    Yes, thanks, that's kind of what I was getting at. And those are the kind of write issues I am a bit worried about too. One thing that really bothers me about all this is that I can't find any documentation anywhere about what drives use what sector size. I could easily just give this drive to the PS3 and get a new one for the Wii, but I have no idea how to even know what drives would work. It looks like even smaller capacity drives are going to be changing over, so I hope some day DIOS MIOS will eventually support 4k sector sizes directly.

    Honestly, even 3 TB would be enough, but the price difference between multiple TB drives is too small to justify getting a smaller capacity.

    If the Wii supported a USB hub that might be a good idea, but I already have a 1 TB that works. It's just that I have more than just Gamecube games on there. I have Wii games, movies, and even music videos I make. Having it all together in one place makes it easier when showing new videos to friends before entering them into contests (I won 2nd place at Kawa Kon 2013, btw, so it is kinda important that I have lots of storage space especially when you consider how many renderings I end up with). I thought about using the PS3 instead for the media, and it is a plus that it can handle full HD that the Wii can't, but showtime is really screwy. It keeps spitting out covers that have nothing to do with the video file and changes the names so I can't view the file names anymore. I can't really justify using the PS3 for media when I can't even read the file names correctly.

    I do have an old 3 TB in storage I could reformat, but I am really reluctant to use that one because it failed before which means that the data retention won't be very good. Still, it might be old enough to actually work.
     
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  14. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    Anything above 2TB will use 4KiB sector size.
    Anything bellow should use 512Bytes per sector, but like you said manufacturer now are switching to 4KiB even for smaller HDD size, so you can't be sure.

    Also, I thought PS3 had a HDD size limit too. maybe it's only for internal storage?
     
  15. Elliander
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    Elliander GBAtemp Fan

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    hmm. Yes, that does appear to be the case. I figured that if I divided the sectors per cluster by the cluster size I could see the sector size from the partition info. This new drive is definitely reading as a 4k and doesn't appear to have any virtual layers to it. I took a look at my Hitachi 3 TB HDD that I use with my computer, looked at the partition info and found out that it is also using a 4k which is a shame because if it wasn't I would have been inclined to move all the files from it to the 4 TB and just use the Hitachi with my Wii.

    Given the fact that no one discloses this information when selling hard drives - despite the fact that it can result in compatibility issues with older operating systems too - and considering that even two drives of the same model number could have a completely different sector size (some even have completely different internal parts despite being listed as the same) it is going to be a bigger and bigger problem. If there was some way to know for sure which 4k drives could read as 512 it wouldn't be a problem at all.

    Solid State drives I know already use 4k sector sizes, but they have been displaying as 512 so they might be safe. Though they will probably update the firmware to be in line with the 4k standard. Not that this is really much of an option since they are so much more expensive than magnetic storage anyway.

    The only solution I can really see is to wait until the SD cards are larger and use SD exclusively with DIOS MIOS. Should Wii games and EmuNAND games work from a 4k hdd? Will DIOS MIOS ever with the the newer hdd?

    Well, I had no problems connecting this Seagate 4 TB to the PS3 to play video files during a test, but I didn't try loading games from it. To the best of my knowledge the only limit is that it has to be FAT32. For an internal drive the only real limitations are the size of the drives even available. The largest internal hdd that would fit in a PS3 is 1 TB. There is also a 1 TB SSD that costs around $600 now, but I rarely see it in stock anywhere. I am going to wait until the ssd price comes down before buying a new internal for the PS3 because it will run much cooler.[/quote]
     
  16. Elliander
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    Elliander GBAtemp Fan

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    I went to office depot and bought/returned hard drives. I can confirm at least that the 3 TB and 2 TB Seagate Backup+ uses 4k sector size. I also tested the 2 TB Toshiba and found that it also uses a 4k sector size. I did not test the western digital drives because it's safe to assume they are the same as the Seagates. The store didn't have any size drive larger than 1 TB and smaller than 2 TB so for that I will have to order online. It's very likely though that if even all the 2 TB drives use 4k sector sizes all the smaller drives will too given the way they mass produce the drives.
     
  17. bobmcjr

    bobmcjr GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    My 1TB Seagate Backup+ will not boot dios mios, just a warning before you buy anything
     
  18. tmv_josue

    tmv_josue GBAtemp Fan

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  19. Elliander
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    Elliander GBAtemp Fan

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    Thanks for that tip. When did you buy it?

    My 1 TB WD Passport does support Dios Mios. I tried contacting a few companies already, but so far no one knows what I am talking about.

    *sigh* You know, if there is anything available now, it would have to have been made before 2011. Maybe a refurnished. Sooner or later though it won't be possible to buy any sort of hard drive for DIOS MIOS support unless they update it.

    Do you have any resources like that for Western Digital? Even looking at the detailed articles for their products I can't find anything to indicate sector size.
     
  20. bobmcjr

    bobmcjr GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    I bought mine in February of this year. Its usb 3.0 with the weird looking crimped cable on the other end. When I try to boot it in dios mios, the light (which should always be on, even when it is just plugged into the wii normally) turns off and flashes a couple of times, so I'm assuming the drive isn't turning on. Then when I unplug it and replug it when its on the dios mios black screen, the light does come on for about 5 seconds before turning off again. Normal wii games, mighty channels, and uneek all work so partitioning isn't the issue (I had to repartition it with my fat32 at the front of the drive instead of the back for EmuNAND)