Hacking '3x' drive speed.

[Lumstar]

People forget there ARE other uses for this. It doesn't have to just be piracy.

We could extend the technology to allow homebrew comparable in quality to retail games. Since a dual-layer disc is over 4 times what the SD slot may use.

 

[Saladman]

Marcan, you forgot to say how Waninkoko bricks everyones wii's.... you slipping noncey ?

 

[choupette]

People forget there ARE other uses for this. It doesn't have to just be piracy.

We could extend the technology to allow homebrew comparable in quality to retail games. Since a dual-layer disc is over 4 times what the SD slot may use.

but you have to be honest, 99.9% of people playing around with homebrews do it to play games they didn't pay for.

 

[Foppzter]

I don't get it.
If Waninkoko only code slow and sloopy code, why not produce a better code yourself to prove it?
He can't produce his own code so he combine already existing code? He still did things that nobody had done up til that point. If it is so easy to combine others code, why arn't we seeing more people doing this? We would have more tweaked GeckoOS loaders by now if it was true.

...wait a moment, you are complaining that a first leaked prebeta can't play 100% of all burned games?
Warezkids these days, needs to learn what a beta is...

 

[marcan]

We could extend the technology to allow homebrew comparable in quality to retail games. Since a dual-layer disc is over 4 times what the SD slot may use.
Which is exactly what libdi does, and what we released libdi for.

Which is exactly what you CANNOT do with Waninkoko's copy loader, because it is tailored specifically to retail games and it would be dumb to "de-adapt" it to work with homebrew. You'd end up with a retarded version of libdi.

BUT You said he could not make the loader but yet he did...
He COULD not make a copy loader. Then neimod's IOS toolkit appeared, and he suddenly had all the parts needed

Let's see, recipe for making a copy loader:
- Get the drive to read DVD-Rs without a modchip. Oh, easy, just run DVDX
- Get code to launch Wii games with patches, outside the system menu. Oh, easy, just look at GeckoOS
- Write a compatibility layer to translate Wii DVD calls to DVD-R calls. Oh, easy, neimod gave us the framework for that. He even handily left everything ready to double as a DIP module replacement, even with the right Process ID. I bet Waninkoko doesn't even know he needed the right one, it "just worked" for him.
- Actually make calls to the DVD system. YAGCD has had documentation on those for ages, and there are plenty of examples in Gamecube-land.

Add some glue code, cook for 15 minutes, violate a license or two. Voila, copy loader is ready.

He was missing the IOS part back then, that's why I said he couldn't do it. Now he got it, so he did it. Oh gee, how strange.

You don't seem to get the point. Waninkoko doesn't know how to innovate. He can't reverse engineer. But he certainly can put together premade pieces, change existing code, research existing documentation, and make his stuff sound like a revolution. That's what he's great at. He DEPENDS on many people better than him at this, but he's certainly better at putting things together than the average layperson. He also has terrible judgement. That's what allows him to put this stuff together in ways that most people either can't or won't. The misconception is that people ignore everything he DEPENDS ON and just assume he did everything. He never writes more than ~10% of the absolute code in his apps.

These emu's and such run through your apps and hacks to allow pirated vc games snes,nes,gba,n64 that honest
people pay for from nintendo you have no right to accuse anyone a pirated nintendo console rom on an emu is
just as bad what is the argument about all we did was ask questions about speeds and progress and here you come you ain't cleared nothin up you stirred it up
Honestly, I'm skipping this part of the argument. If you can't see the practical difference between the two things, then nothing I say will change that. Even if I could, it would require such a long reply that you wouldn't read it. So there.

QUOTE(gisel213 @ Oct 6 2008, 10:33 AM) One Last thing savemii dongle hmm what's it for fixing and or recovering bricked consoles right how do they become bricked
hmm unauthorized software from which you and others created jesus give it a rest marcan you are no better

Wait, wait, did I read that right? You're accusing me of creating a (legal) device that helps people fix something?

QUOTE(gisel213 @ Oct 6 2008, 10:33 AM)

All these game systems are made by man and can be undone by man if they are smart enough so let people have fun
and hack like you and bushing did

If only Waninkoko knew how to "hack"... I know this might shock you, but did you ever look around and realize that there are plenty of people actually hacking on the Wii? It's not bushing and I (besides, that's terribly wrong - I wasn't even in the team when this all started. tmbinc and segher deserve way more credit than I do). It's at least 20 people actually doing work behind the scenes. You just don't read about it because these people don't go around posting controversial end-user apps.

 

[Meowayne]

Would you guys please stop feeding the Drama-Llama?

 

[shredman]

seriously, how stupid can people be?!?

marcan, bushing, tmbinc, segher and company deserve the praise for their
work in getting homebrew on the wii to where it is...

i'm sorry that too many fools have little respect for those who are actually
responsible for the software we use - as opposed to those that merely seem
to steal code and let others assume they are some God-like coder...

i'm glad for the responsible way that they have decided to proceed with - in
order to give us schmucks who pay nothing for the privilege - coding new and
useful apps and software. And not merely a tool of piracy...

i'm not sucking up - just giving a little credit where its due...

...Now i'm waiting to be flamed by the cult of Waninkoko followers...

SHREDMAN

 

[Lumstar]

What's this? GBAtemp is being invaded by the nWo? Oh noes!

*Suplexes this thread to get revenge*

 

[atomikramp]

i don't have the necessary stuff to make the test right now,
but maybe someone already tried this out.

what happens if you just
1) open the ISO
2) extract all files

 

[noobwarrior7]

it's interesting, I think marcan does the best job out of anyone in the homebrew scene elaborating on stuff in laymans terms.

 

[Lumstar]

The file system on a real Wii disc is different from standard DVD. An exact disc image wouldn't be viewable in normal software for browsing ISOs, due to the format being unknown to them.

 

[atomikramp]

that's why i said to use trucha signer to extract files.

it works..
i'm doing it right now
but i cant make any test becouse i don't even have a twilight princess game dvd

so i can't install anything to test out stuff.

and about the different filesystem type, this may be the problem after all
reading a different file system structure in a dvd video mode, wich is aspecting to read a standard UDF filesystem.

 

[datahoarder]

This thread is like watching a slow speed car chase...
I'm just throwing this out there, but any developer should know by now that their software has the possibility of being used and abused in a way in which they never meant it to be (oh, duh, kind of like the Wii..)

Kind of a useless battle, what's done is done, there's no use arguing about it, and if you did nothing wrong, there's also no need to defend yourself from it. Once it's out there, there's not much you can do to convince the general public to change their ways, all it takes is one step off the beaten path for things to go awry.

You live and you learn, then fix the things in which weren't ever meant to be, let's stop playing this cat and mouse game of complaining and blaming, and just expand and find a solution already, if it's even worth it.

I might be fueling the e-drama, but it's sort of getting me tired of reading all these posts when nothing really revolutionary is being said, the same old thing reworded. I had to post something on the subject, and may it please be the last time I do.

Thanks Wan, bushing, marcan, etc, etc, anyone who develops something, based on the fact that it's creative, putting all other issues aside. Can we please postpone killing the scene with the drama? Thanks.

 

[Motoko]

that's why i said to use trucha signer to extract files.

it works..
i'm doing it right now
but i cant make any test becouse i don't even have a twilight princess game dvd

so i can't install anything to test out stuff.

and about the different filesystem type, this may be the problem after all
reading a different file system structure in a dvd video mode, wich is aspecting to read a standard UDF filesystem.

go borrow the game, i want to know the outcome

i'm to lazy to do it my self :|

 

[TheWon]

Ah the great debate!
I just wish that the entire Homebrew Community would realize. That they are considered enemies in the eyes of the Gaming world.

Regardless if hombrew is used for new application, emulators, or piracy. Nintendo don't want their devices altered or games played without paying them money.
The freeloader was a simple device that gave poor Europeans a chance to play games. They wouldn't see almost a year after everyone else. . Nintendo killed it because Nintendo of Europe wanted to get all of their money. Not to lose any to other regions.

Regardless if you are the Founding Fathers of Wii homebrew, the so called Renegades, or mod chips sellers. Nintendo don't want you messing with their Wiis. No kind of deals will ever be made between the 2. Unless the Homebrew crew gets development kits, but then they would be Indie.
My problem with this war amongst the HOMEBREW. Is the idea that the FF can't believe that the renegades altered their work. Shouldn't it be called evolving it. Rogues are needed to advance things. They are willing to take the chance others won't.

You think the Wright Brothers first built a plane. With the thought of someday their idea would be used to drop bombs on people. Maybe not, and I don't see the Wright family suing anyone on how their work is being used today. You guys are the same in the eyes of Nintendo. Some one they want to stop.
You do your thing and let the "Rogues" do theirs. No need to fight.

 

[marcan]

Nintendo don't want their devices altered or games played without paying them money.
You've got it wrong. Nintendo doesn't want to lose money. Period - no qualifiers after that. Homebrew doesn't hurt them in the least bit (I guess you could ostensibly say that emulators hurt them when they're used for launching their games, but that's but a blip in their radar compared to real VC and Wii game piracy). They lose money if they devote engineering resources to fixing the Wii's bugs, so if their only use were homebrew, they wouldn't do that. Sure, we might still be "enemies" in a way, but not "enemies" important enough to care about. And that would be the ideal situation for us.

The freeloader was a simple device that gave poor Europeans a chance to play games. They wouldn't see almost a year after everyone else. . Nintendo killed it because Nintendo of Europe wanted to get all of their money. Not to lose any to other regions.
Agreed.

QUOTE(TheWon @ Oct 6 2008, 02:53 PM)

Regardless if you are the Founding Fathers of Wii homebrew, the so called Renegades, or mod chips sellers. Nintendo don't want you messing with their Wiis.

But the point is, were it not for piracy, they wouldn't care. Sure, they might not "want" us messing with our Wiis, but they also wouldn't care enough to do anything about it.

Once VC piracy and the copy loader enter the scene (interestingly, Waninkoko is the practical cause of both, having written the "turning point" piece of software - as stupid as it was in both cases), Nintendo starts to care. That's why there is a perpetual flame between Wanin and us. Datel too - tmbinc wrote a nice flame about them when IOS37 showed up because of Freeloader. It seems Datel took offense, because they followed up by donating $1000 to wiibrew.org's admin.

 

[Zeek03]

Nintendo don't want their devices altered or games played without paying them money.
You've got it wrong. Nintendo doesn't want to lose money. Period - no qualifiers after that. Homebrew doesn't hurt them in the least bit (I guess you could ostensibly say that emulators hurt them when they're used for launching their games, but that's but a blip in their radar compared to real VC and Wii game piracy). They lose money if they devote engineering resources to fixing the Wii's bugs, so if their only use were homebrew, they wouldn't do that. Sure, we might still be "enemies" in a way, but not "enemies" important enough to care about. And that would be the ideal situation for us.

The freeloader was a simple device that gave poor Europeans a chance to play games. They wouldn't see almost a year after everyone else. . Nintendo killed it because Nintendo of Europe wanted to get all of their money. Not to lose any to other regions.
Agreed.

QUOTE(TheWon @ Oct 6 2008, 02:53 PM)

Regardless if you are the Founding Fathers of Wii homebrew, the so called Renegades, or mod chips sellers. Nintendo don't want you messing with their Wiis.

But the point is, were it not for piracy, they wouldn't care. Sure, they might not "want" us messing with our Wiis, but they also wouldn't care enough to do anything about it.

Once VC piracy and the copy loader enter the scene (interestingly, Waninkoko is the practical cause of both, having written the "turning point" piece of software - as stupid as it was in both cases), Nintendo starts to care. That's why there is a perpetual flame between Wanin and us. Datel too - tmbinc wrote a nice flame about them when IOS37 showed up because of Freeloader. It seems Datel took offense, because they followed up by donating $1000 to wiibrew.org's admin.

Wow! Who got $1000 dollars? ch0p?

 

[marcan]

Wow! Who got $1000 dollars? ch0p?

Yes.
http://debugmo.de/?p=61

 

[Jacobeian]

what makes nintendo react is publicity... as long as wii hacking remained anonymous, there were no problems
sadly, being able to install pirated VC or run backup without modchips is getting more attention from mass media than being able to run tetris with your wiimote

emulators are debatable since they could eventually also impact VC sales: even if they are not illegals on their own, it still gives a good reason to Nintendo for stopping homebrew.

Anyway, you can blame waninkoko for being the one putting all what you released in bad use (and for various other reasons) but you can't deny the fact this was unevitable as soon as the first exploits were publically made available and you starts sharing informations on how to hack the wii internals, there is always someone (interestingly, not so many) for doing this

 

[marcan]

Anyway, you can blame waninkoko for being the one putting all what you released in bad use (and for various other reasons) but you can't deny the fact this was unevitable as soon as the first exploits were publically made available and you starts sharing informations on how to hack the wii internals, there is always someone (interestingly, not so many) for doing this

Hey, I never said it was evitable. I just get bitching rights towards the eventual culprit, and that happens to be Waninkoko

It is not my job to protect the Wii from piracy. Given the choice, I'll side with a method less likely to end up being used for piracy. However, I'm not going to go out of my way to prevent piracy. But, since piracy directly affects me by giving homebrew a bad name (and prompting updates from Nintendo), I'll bitch about it.