Hacking 3DS will spell the end of portable gaming for Sony
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FlashX007 said:
It has a small chance... of being better than Apple with their iPhone, but adding a useless and unnecessary feature to a mainly gaming device (I guess im talking about the PSP) such as the PSP... I could go on about it but I'm kinda drunk at the point. lol
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Sincerely, some people. Wanna rip my post apart? Fine, but fair is fair. That's me in orange<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
You're getting defensive that I responded?
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->The market don't know what they want. Yep, all these years the DS has been out, they obviously didn't know they wanted to buy those millions of DS units. Which prob means they also don't know if they want a newer, better, 3-D enhanced DS. Right. While people don't usually know what they ARE buying, they have a pretty clear idea of what they want.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<b>They want entertainment. </b>The basic needs. That is what they want.
<b>High sales of one item over another doesn't necessarily mean the customer is informed which unit they want.</b>
<i>I am not saying Nintendo didn't do a good job with software or advertising (both did good jobs).</i>
I never said PSP should have come first in sales, if that's what you are implying (perhaps you aren't).
I am simply stating <b>sales can be influenced by many things</b>, not merely technical and games knowledge.
To suggest mere sales is proof people know what they want (if one were to suggest this) is funny logic to me.
Number 1, the PSP cost more (especially in the early days)
Number 2, it is quite a bit bigger.
Number 3, DS built on the success of Game Boy Advance, which allowed backward compatibility. This helps sales <i>heaps</i>.
Number 4, Sony's first portable gaming unit versus Nintendo, who had been in it for at least 10 years prior (reputation, brand image).
Number 5, of course the DS had <b>touch</b>, which perhaps many people were intrigued by.
<i>I am not saying the DS is inferior and should have come second. Not at all.</i> (though I am surprised it did sell so much, yes)
<b>All I'm saying is things like the above (and more) REALLY influence sales. </b>
Both make great products. I wish more would stop taking sides. I am simply talking about the market as a whole mostly not knowing what they want when they buy a device like this and those are some basics that could have swayed them one way or another (I think more of those are in Nintendo's favour which may go some way to explaining sales and subsequent developer support). Here, the criticisms of the PSP I hear are always very weak; <b>people seem to bag it simply for coming second!</b> Which is why I wrote so much here defending it...
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->It wasn't underappreciated because it came second. It came second because consumers bought WHAT THEY WANTED TO BUY, which, sadly, isn't the PSP. Basic economic model: what people want will sell.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
See above for influencing factors. The treatment the PSP gets here is one of "failure" simply 'cause it came second.<b> It didn't fail at all.</b> It helped push the market forward and sold quite respectably for them, especially considering it's <b>their first portable games unit</b> with no backward compatibility to propel their sales to the stratosphere. They did many things extremely well (you are free to disagree, this is just my opinion).
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Wow. Pushing the envelope how? They gave us the basic "High-end Graphics, High-end Audio, Multimedia whatever" stuff they do every time they make a playstation. And wait, they made nintendo look expensive. You're kidding, right? 2 screens, 1 touch-sensitive, running smoothly with Wi-fi, local wireless and even download multiplayer. Oh, yeah, and the battery didn't suck either.
<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I explained how it pushed the envelope quite well. Yeah, they gave us high-end audio, high-end graphics and they did it in a portable.
You may have different priorities and likes/dislikes and that's fine. You are arguing DS's approach was better. I think they were both good for what they do, but the DS totally cannot match the PSP as a multimedia device. I think that is clear to anyone who compares them. So both have made design and usability compromises in order to do what they do well. No single unit does everything better than the other.
After seeing Nintendo offering sub-par sound and basic visuals in portables since the Game&Watch, Sony took a totally different approach with their first portable gaming unit and I think the customer who wants/appreciates their offering benefit. If battery life suffers a bit, it sure isn't any worse than any portable media playing device out there. I think they did a fantastic job keeping battery life balanced with performance and it's totally unappreciated by people who take sides. Nintendo also did an excellent job on their DS, but it's easier to keep battery life better when the unit's graphics and sound are less advanced, including the omission of basic wireless standards (which I had always heard was limited by the processing power of the DS).
But it's not about this, really. It's simply illustrating that I think they took a different approach and did it very well and didn't 'fail' as much as offer something different in a market dominated by a single player with a very long heritage of making gaming portables. <b><i>Considering all this? They did extremely well. </i></b> I still get excited by their offerings using them daily and also about what's coming in the future, too.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Yeah. Now if only UMDs were as portable, easy to clean, and capable of wear and tear. In case you also don't know, the point of handheld gaming devices is PORTABILITY. Which would explain why nintendo's handhelds are small. Oh, it also didn't help that Sony themselves basically abandoned the UMDs with the PSP Go.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I'm not interested in taking sides. I love them both. But I will address some of what you wrote. UMDs are portable. I have never had a durability issue yet. Of course a basic bit of care helps but you are probably right that a cartridge would fare better. Granted. PSP is portable but larger, yes. They took a different approach and I'm glad they did. It would suck to be wanting the things the PSP offers now in 2010 and not having a unit that can do what it does for such a reasonable price, IMO. That's all I can say. UMDs offer mass storage for cheap. Audio and graphics are pushed. Developers don't worry about compressing stuff so it sounds and looks like crap to fit on a lower-priced cartridge. I like this approach. I hope they continue with optical discs and they will considering the PSP Go was a sales disappointment, for many reasons, one of which was no ability to use UMD.
Again the different approach here is refreshing rather than something that should be bagged 'a failure'.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Yeah... Screen, Buttons on either side of said screen, Shoulder buttons, and the most-hated handheld input ever - the mighty analog nub. With the exception of the usual Sony spirit of tech-ing everything up, hey, doesn't it JUST resemble a modified GBA? Nintendo was behind the good old "buttons-screen-buttons" format. They reshaped their device, and PSP was left grasping straws for design ideas. Thus, the PSP Go was born.
<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Great ergonomics on the PSP (less so on the PSP Go, in my opinion). Again, they took a different approach and I'm glad they did. I LOVE that the controls are on either side of the screen on the regular models but I expect any new model to be far more compact. Again, I don't take sides. Each has something to offer and my point was to illustrate that the PSP does indeed offer a lot that is often ignored by those who simply take sides based on "it didn't sell enough!" sales data. Your likes/dislikes are fine, I was just trying to illustrate things more fairly for the PSP.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->
Wow. My example was the GBA era, where nary a handheld could be found (most of them went the way of the dinosaur already) in case you didn't read and just rushed to massacre my post. The GBA was the most successful era, great hardware, great games and you know what? Nintendo left that behind to change the way handhelds work. Why would you go away from the usual formula (for example a company having a tech fetish making a handheld with a tech fetish) if you are afraid? I think you do not understand what you are talking about. If Nintendo didn't give a damn about a market they dominated, why take a risk?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->[
You totally lost me with this post. Can you explain what you are getting at a bit better?
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->You mean to tell me Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pokemon, Advance Wars, Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy, GTA, Golden Sun, and all the others were not worth the cash gamers paid? Don't most people want physical copies of their game? I think you are losing arguments to throw out. Really? Your point being? Maybe you forget the PSP Go decided to screw it's customers over by being download content only, and basically abandoning your much beloved UMDs? Why on earth would you make a device that can't even do what another device OF THE SAME GENERATION can? Ask people if they were happy to have that hassle of either finding a way to get a digital copy of their current games or buying it in digital format. Nintendo didn't do that. It's been 7 or so years since they released the DS, and the current formats can still play what the DS Phats could.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
You missed my point completely. I was trying to illustrate how royalties on the games themselves are the big dollars. Profit on initial purchase cost of the hardware probably isn't bringing the huge dollars for them comparatively-speaking, but I'm sure it's doing something to fatten them up given the volumes they do.<b> I was not discussing whether any specific games were "worth the cash gamers paid" and I was not taking sides between units. </b>I don't care about taking sides; both have good and bad points and I was trying to illustrate some. All I'm saying is sometimes the software sales are used to offset lower initial hardware prices, so hardware prices isn't the complete picture, really. Games = big money for any manufacturer of a games system.
Since you mentioned PSP Go:
PSP Go was an utter sales disappointment for Sony and for good reason(s). The product did prepare people for PSP downloads far more than their push for downloads on their regular PSPs (most people still don't know you can download with those things). They did greatly expand their PSP offerings during launch of the unit and they were building and testing the market for a more compact PSP entirely reliant on downloads.
The lessons they learned here will be applied to the PSP2, but really this wasn't what I was discussing above.
Again, I couldn't care less which sold more or which side 'won' in sales. I am glad both are in the market doing things very differently and I paid for them both.
All I'm trying to point out is Sony did just as much good as Nintendo have done here. Instead of giving respect to Sony, people bag them and fly the sales leader's flag.
<b>I sort of find this perplexing, 'cause both are great units in their own ways. </b>
You're getting defensive that I responded?
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->The market don't know what they want. Yep, all these years the DS has been out, they obviously didn't know they wanted to buy those millions of DS units. Which prob means they also don't know if they want a newer, better, 3-D enhanced DS. Right. While people don't usually know what they ARE buying, they have a pretty clear idea of what they want.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<b>They want entertainment. </b>The basic needs. That is what they want.
<b>High sales of one item over another doesn't necessarily mean the customer is informed which unit they want.</b>
<i>I am not saying Nintendo didn't do a good job with software or advertising (both did good jobs).</i>
I never said PSP should have come first in sales, if that's what you are implying (perhaps you aren't).
I am simply stating <b>sales can be influenced by many things</b>, not merely technical and games knowledge.
To suggest mere sales is proof people know what they want (if one were to suggest this) is funny logic to me.
Number 1, the PSP cost more (especially in the early days)
Number 2, it is quite a bit bigger.
Number 3, DS built on the success of Game Boy Advance, which allowed backward compatibility. This helps sales <i>heaps</i>.
Number 4, Sony's first portable gaming unit versus Nintendo, who had been in it for at least 10 years prior (reputation, brand image).
Number 5, of course the DS had <b>touch</b>, which perhaps many people were intrigued by.
<i>I am not saying the DS is inferior and should have come second. Not at all.</i> (though I am surprised it did sell so much, yes)
<b>All I'm saying is things like the above (and more) REALLY influence sales. </b>
Both make great products. I wish more would stop taking sides. I am simply talking about the market as a whole mostly not knowing what they want when they buy a device like this and those are some basics that could have swayed them one way or another (I think more of those are in Nintendo's favour which may go some way to explaining sales and subsequent developer support). Here, the criticisms of the PSP I hear are always very weak; <b>people seem to bag it simply for coming second!</b> Which is why I wrote so much here defending it...
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->It wasn't underappreciated because it came second. It came second because consumers bought WHAT THEY WANTED TO BUY, which, sadly, isn't the PSP. Basic economic model: what people want will sell.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
See above for influencing factors. The treatment the PSP gets here is one of "failure" simply 'cause it came second.<b> It didn't fail at all.</b> It helped push the market forward and sold quite respectably for them, especially considering it's <b>their first portable games unit</b> with no backward compatibility to propel their sales to the stratosphere. They did many things extremely well (you are free to disagree, this is just my opinion).
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Wow. Pushing the envelope how? They gave us the basic "High-end Graphics, High-end Audio, Multimedia whatever" stuff they do every time they make a playstation. And wait, they made nintendo look expensive. You're kidding, right? 2 screens, 1 touch-sensitive, running smoothly with Wi-fi, local wireless and even download multiplayer. Oh, yeah, and the battery didn't suck either.
<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I explained how it pushed the envelope quite well. Yeah, they gave us high-end audio, high-end graphics and they did it in a portable.
You may have different priorities and likes/dislikes and that's fine. You are arguing DS's approach was better. I think they were both good for what they do, but the DS totally cannot match the PSP as a multimedia device. I think that is clear to anyone who compares them. So both have made design and usability compromises in order to do what they do well. No single unit does everything better than the other.
After seeing Nintendo offering sub-par sound and basic visuals in portables since the Game&Watch, Sony took a totally different approach with their first portable gaming unit and I think the customer who wants/appreciates their offering benefit. If battery life suffers a bit, it sure isn't any worse than any portable media playing device out there. I think they did a fantastic job keeping battery life balanced with performance and it's totally unappreciated by people who take sides. Nintendo also did an excellent job on their DS, but it's easier to keep battery life better when the unit's graphics and sound are less advanced, including the omission of basic wireless standards (which I had always heard was limited by the processing power of the DS).
But it's not about this, really. It's simply illustrating that I think they took a different approach and did it very well and didn't 'fail' as much as offer something different in a market dominated by a single player with a very long heritage of making gaming portables. <b><i>Considering all this? They did extremely well. </i></b> I still get excited by their offerings using them daily and also about what's coming in the future, too.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Yeah. Now if only UMDs were as portable, easy to clean, and capable of wear and tear. In case you also don't know, the point of handheld gaming devices is PORTABILITY. Which would explain why nintendo's handhelds are small. Oh, it also didn't help that Sony themselves basically abandoned the UMDs with the PSP Go.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I'm not interested in taking sides. I love them both. But I will address some of what you wrote. UMDs are portable. I have never had a durability issue yet. Of course a basic bit of care helps but you are probably right that a cartridge would fare better. Granted. PSP is portable but larger, yes. They took a different approach and I'm glad they did. It would suck to be wanting the things the PSP offers now in 2010 and not having a unit that can do what it does for such a reasonable price, IMO. That's all I can say. UMDs offer mass storage for cheap. Audio and graphics are pushed. Developers don't worry about compressing stuff so it sounds and looks like crap to fit on a lower-priced cartridge. I like this approach. I hope they continue with optical discs and they will considering the PSP Go was a sales disappointment, for many reasons, one of which was no ability to use UMD.
Again the different approach here is refreshing rather than something that should be bagged 'a failure'.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Yeah... Screen, Buttons on either side of said screen, Shoulder buttons, and the most-hated handheld input ever - the mighty analog nub. With the exception of the usual Sony spirit of tech-ing everything up, hey, doesn't it JUST resemble a modified GBA? Nintendo was behind the good old "buttons-screen-buttons" format. They reshaped their device, and PSP was left grasping straws for design ideas. Thus, the PSP Go was born.
<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Great ergonomics on the PSP (less so on the PSP Go, in my opinion). Again, they took a different approach and I'm glad they did. I LOVE that the controls are on either side of the screen on the regular models but I expect any new model to be far more compact. Again, I don't take sides. Each has something to offer and my point was to illustrate that the PSP does indeed offer a lot that is often ignored by those who simply take sides based on "it didn't sell enough!" sales data. Your likes/dislikes are fine, I was just trying to illustrate things more fairly for the PSP.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->
Wow. My example was the GBA era, where nary a handheld could be found (most of them went the way of the dinosaur already) in case you didn't read and just rushed to massacre my post. The GBA was the most successful era, great hardware, great games and you know what? Nintendo left that behind to change the way handhelds work. Why would you go away from the usual formula (for example a company having a tech fetish making a handheld with a tech fetish) if you are afraid? I think you do not understand what you are talking about. If Nintendo didn't give a damn about a market they dominated, why take a risk?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->[
You totally lost me with this post. Can you explain what you are getting at a bit better?
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->You mean to tell me Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pokemon, Advance Wars, Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy, GTA, Golden Sun, and all the others were not worth the cash gamers paid? Don't most people want physical copies of their game? I think you are losing arguments to throw out. Really? Your point being? Maybe you forget the PSP Go decided to screw it's customers over by being download content only, and basically abandoning your much beloved UMDs? Why on earth would you make a device that can't even do what another device OF THE SAME GENERATION can? Ask people if they were happy to have that hassle of either finding a way to get a digital copy of their current games or buying it in digital format. Nintendo didn't do that. It's been 7 or so years since they released the DS, and the current formats can still play what the DS Phats could.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
You missed my point completely. I was trying to illustrate how royalties on the games themselves are the big dollars. Profit on initial purchase cost of the hardware probably isn't bringing the huge dollars for them comparatively-speaking, but I'm sure it's doing something to fatten them up given the volumes they do.<b> I was not discussing whether any specific games were "worth the cash gamers paid" and I was not taking sides between units. </b>I don't care about taking sides; both have good and bad points and I was trying to illustrate some. All I'm saying is sometimes the software sales are used to offset lower initial hardware prices, so hardware prices isn't the complete picture, really. Games = big money for any manufacturer of a games system.
Since you mentioned PSP Go:
PSP Go was an utter sales disappointment for Sony and for good reason(s). The product did prepare people for PSP downloads far more than their push for downloads on their regular PSPs (most people still don't know you can download with those things). They did greatly expand their PSP offerings during launch of the unit and they were building and testing the market for a more compact PSP entirely reliant on downloads.
The lessons they learned here will be applied to the PSP2, but really this wasn't what I was discussing above.
Again, I couldn't care less which sold more or which side 'won' in sales. I am glad both are in the market doing things very differently and I paid for them both.
All I'm trying to point out is Sony did just as much good as Nintendo have done here. Instead of giving respect to Sony, people bag them and fly the sales leader's flag.
<b>I sort of find this perplexing, 'cause both are great units in their own ways. </b>
FireGrey said:
Super Optical System with 4GB max storage and higher transfer speeds using a blue laser and miniature optical drive half the size of UMD will come out with the PSP2
All joking aside, if you think Sony are even close to giving up here, you are wrong
Guild McCommunist said:
Hmm.
Then load your favourite tracks on the PSP, hold down the Brigthness button for one second to turn the display off and enjoy the sound quality with lots of battery life
Or just watch a movie on your cheap memory stick.
You packed it in your backpack / pocket before you left, right?
Enjoy
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Alright, I read only the first page and the post above me and I can tell the remaining 6 pages are all just pointless bitching.
The DS is a great handheld. The PSP is ALSO a great handheld. Why can't people accept the two consoles and get on with life?
The DS is a great handheld. The PSP is ALSO a great handheld. Why can't people accept the two consoles and get on with life?
8BitWalugi said:
'Cause they like 'teams' / warring sides.
It's as if some side has to always 'defeat' the other rather than look at both and say "yes, I like them both"
It's like someone walking up to me telling me:
---------------------------------
"nah man, you don't want the bananas...potatoes outsell them 1,000:1, don't you know potatoes are the most commonly-grown vegetable wordwide?"
Me: "Uhhh...but I like bananas too. Can I have both?"
"no way man, you want the leader. Bananas are t3h f4il!"
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Sony has never been a fav..
Always for the XBOX and DS..
Tho if only there were better grapix on the ds..
I dont kno anything 'bout 3DS, i hope it will be better.
Always for the XBOX and DS..
Tho if only there were better grapix on the ds..
I dont kno anything 'bout 3DS, i hope it will be better.
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Okay, I was offered for free a developer suite for the psp just to see if I could hack it, I told them know and passed them on to a couple friends of mine... They told them to go download only as a security feature. You know make it way harder to hack... The problem with this is all you need to do is crack the firmware upgrade to a different download site where the games are (Hacked) hack, hack, cough and easy peasy not really a big deal, just like the dsi hack to a new website for download and done. The friends of mine already told me this wouldn't be too hard for them to do...
They're just not interested in it as they were getting paid for there advice. That and their programmer friends all agree less hacking more paying for there hard worked on software. which I agree with too.
I told them what's going to happen is whats happening with the iphone. Software made cheaper and cheaper and cheaper as the developers flood the market. And if you as programmer are getting a smaller and smaller cut for the sam,e level of work... well you see where this is going...
Sigh...
They're just not interested in it as they were getting paid for there advice. That and their programmer friends all agree less hacking more paying for there hard worked on software. which I agree with too.
I told them what's going to happen is whats happening with the iphone. Software made cheaper and cheaper and cheaper as the developers flood the market. And if you as programmer are getting a smaller and smaller cut for the sam,e level of work... well you see where this is going...
Sigh...
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but what i want to know can sony survive another Nintendo Handled the psp did bad in sales not only that i was really disappointed wen i got it lst be hones it haves no games
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Do your research before you run your mouth.JetKun said:
I detect a large amount of fanboyism in this thread. :/
As of September 2010, 60 million units were sold. YOU CALL THAT A FAILURE? Just because it's behind a company in terms of sales, doesn't mean it's a failure for the company itself.
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