Hacking 3DS Bricking Rumor

[BenNorris]

...

 

[Mark5155]

So people what about the next update will it brick?

 

[Rydian]

There's no indication that it will.

 

[kodelz]

nice info
really clear all the doubts

100% going to get the 3ds now

 

[alphamule]

Just because they can brick (rather trivially), doesn't mean they will or may. Remember, just because you own the software, doesn't mean you are allowed to disable the hardware. It's a double-edged sword with DRMed CPUs since the software is arguably to get in the way, not to make it work. Yeah, it's pretty much been a killed rumor. The bricks exist in the sense that bad updates of your cart may fry your R4i SDHC or similar carts, or that you're locked out from running the cart in the 3DS due to Nintendo's update until you get a matching update to the cart's firmware.

Also it IS possible to brick a 3DS but without a need for any cart at all? Meaning that you messed up an official update by removing the battery in the middle or something? That would be a pretty stupid move, anyways. No Flash cart needed at all. There's a reason that PC motherboards nowadays have 2 copies of the firmware and only ever overwrite 1 at a time. Also, they often have a protected boot block that isn't overwritten no matter how many times you update the firmware. You can just boot off a floppy or PCI card designed for that. This is a pretty old Intel/NEC/etc. Flash ROM feature (the 8KB boot block), actually. Does Nintendo do that? If not, they're idiots or don't have a choice (read:software patents).

 

[Engi]

There is no need for a discussion like this now, because there is no real 3ds flash card. The actual flash cards act as a DS cart, and it is very possible that the anti-piracy does not work for these. There is no way to say for sure. Till there are 3ds flash cards, there is no way to say what they can do. But it will be something like wii, update to disable the unwanted software. And it says on the 3ds, important updates will be downloaded without asking. So most probably flash cards will have a hard time in 3ds. But most probably they will find a way, as always. Not that I'd like it. But most probably the users of the flash cards won't be able to get to the nintendo e-shop (and maybe other services).

 

[FluffyLunamoth]

Just because they can brick (rather trivially), doesn't mean they will or may. Remember, just because you own the software, doesn't mean you are allowed to disable the hardware. It's a double-edged sword with DRMed CPUs since the software is arguably to get in the way, not to make it work. Yeah, it's pretty much been a killed rumor. The bricks exist in the sense that bad updates of your cart may fry your R4i SDHC or similar carts, or that you're locked out from running the cart in the 3DS due to Nintendo's update until you get a matching update to the cart's firmware.

Also it IS possible to brick a 3DS but without a need for any cart at all? Meaning that you messed up an official update by removing the battery in the middle or something? That would be a pretty stupid move, anyways. No Flash cart needed at all. There's a reason that PC motherboards nowadays have 2 copies of the firmware and only ever overwrite 1 at a time. Also, they often have a protected boot block that isn't overwritten no matter how many times you update the firmware. You can just boot off a floppy or PCI card designed for that. This is a pretty old Intel/NEC/etc. Flash ROM feature (the 8KB boot block), actually. Does Nintendo do that? If not, they're idiots or don't have a choice (read:software patents).

It wouldn't be hard. Simply force a small "update" for said 3DS you want to brick, make it screw up, and then display a warning and why it happened. Something like..."The firmware update has detected interference by [insert device here] and was unable to complete the update. The Nintendo 3DS firmware has become corrupted as a result of this interference. We apologize for the inconvenience, and your warranty has been voided by the use of a non-approved device." No one has cracked the 3DS yet, and by the time anyone would really figure this out, there's nothing you can do. And no, telling a judge or something your flashcard is not illegal won't change that. You take the risk, you take the consequences.

 

[PsyBlade]

But it will be something like wii, update to disable the unwanted software.

Or do like they did with the wii in other cases and intentionally brick them.

 

[alphamule]

Actually, wasn't it just that the Wii's setup had so many dependencies that it was amazing that official firmware never self-bricked? You'd end up in so many individual state courts, that it wouldn't even be funny. This is regardless of 'must use our cherry-picked judge' clauses. They don't even apply to AGs at the least and these same states can nullify them in case of consumer laws. Who would have thought that one-sided, non-negotiable, our-way-or-the-highway contracts would be diluted? (LOL)

And one word for 3DS updates: Firewall, duh. I'm curious. If you could in theory change out Flash ROMs on demand, would the CPU still recognize the older firmwares? Yeah, it's probably 'teh evah BGA' in the words of some DS hackers.

 

[nl255]

Just because they can brick (rather trivially), doesn't mean they will or may. Remember, just because you own the software, doesn't mean you are allowed to disable the hardware. It's a double-edged sword with DRMed CPUs since the software is arguably to get in the way, not to make it work. Yeah, it's pretty much been a killed rumor. The bricks exist in the sense that bad updates of your cart may fry your R4i SDHC or similar carts, or that you're locked out from running the cart in the 3DS due to Nintendo's update until you get a matching update to the cart's firmware.

However, keep in mind that some people have had their DSes bricked by some of the R4 clones back in the day because those carts were crappily made and ended up blowing out fuses in the system due to shorting out and sending power down the wrong part of the connector. Presumably the same thing could happen with the 3DS and even cause hardware damage if those protective fuses are no longer present.

In short - stick with genuine well known flash carts like the Acekard or DSTwo and it won't be a problem.

 

[Luigi2012SM64DS]

with genuine well known flash carts like the Acekard or DSTwo and it won't be a problem.

heh genuine flashcarts

 

[alphamule]

Well, legit then... no wait... hahahahaha. Legit as in to the physical specifications and from manufacturers licensed by the designers of the carts. Not legit as in licensed from Nintendo as an official device. A better word is "conforming" or non-counterfeit.

 

[PsyBlade]

Actually, wasn't it just that the Wii's setup had so many dependencies that it was amazing that official firmware never self-bricked? You'd end up in so many individual state courts, that it wouldn't even be funny. This is regardless of 'must use our cherry-picked judge' clauses.

Nintendo DID brick region changed korean wiis with newer system menus (since 4.2).
They try to encrypt some value with a key that only the korean wiis have and refuse to load sysmenu if it is successfull. Search error 003.
Afaik they were not taken to ANY court over it.

 

[alphamule]

Yeah, but South Korea is... VERY pro-game company just like Japan. I should have been clearer. "State" meaning California, Colorado, Connecticut, Kentucky, Kansas, etc. Not as in a nation like South Korea. Sorry, my bad.

Another 'Americanism' (stupidest name, ever?): Republic of Korea is often used interchangeably with South Korea and just plain Korea depending on where you're from. In the US, people usually say South Korea for the old republic (RoK) and North for the democratic people's republic (DPRoK).

Irony: It's technically only 'older' by a few months or a couple decades depending on your POV. Either way, they're about the same age. Yeah, I learned something - thanks Google!

Wii firmware v4.2 had these changes.

 

[PsyBlade]

Yeah, but South Korea is... VERY pro-game company just like Japan. I should have been clearer. "State" meaning California, Colorado, Connecticut, Kentucky, Kansas, etc. Not as in a nation like South Korea. Sorry, my bad.

Just that those wiis were intended for the south korean market does not mean that they stayed there.
Aparently because they were cheaper, merchants bought them and sold them all over the world (US too) after they region changed them.
(to fit the region they were in or for easier obtainable games in areas were nintendo seems to think that they dont deserve wiis (like the rest of asia))

 

[alphamule]

One thing I noticed when researching it further.

1) They should have backed up their memory. They could have just used their backup.
2) There is apparently a CD and chip that fixes bricks.
3) It bricked even legitimate firmware sometimes.

And yes, most Japanese and Koreans (both North/South) aren't exactly the best of buddies. Also, I learned something else from reading what English speakers say about their experiences. Let's pray that we NEVER have to deal with online banking with a bank in South Korea. IE6 and 200000000 ActiveX plugins(read: Win98 on Gb speeds)=WTF are they smoking?! That alone cracked me up and was worth the time researching. Oh, and look up MLXchange. LOL, it seems that's a universal constant as much as c or e or Pi.

 

[cardcafex]

i dont have a flash yet but its really stupid for some company to brick someones system for hardware they weren't even aware was illegal. i mean,would anyone even know that?the flash carts ive seen online looked like they would be boxed up and shelved in a real store!

 

[mysticwaterfall]

i dont have a flash yet but its really stupid for some company to brick someones system for hardware they weren't even aware was illegal. i mean,would anyone even know that?the flash carts ive seen online looked like they would be boxed up and shelved in a real store!

It should be obvious to anyone that something that lets you play all the games for free cant possibly be legal.

 

[cardcafex]

i dont have a flash yet but its really stupid for some company to brick someones system for hardware they weren't even aware was illegal. i mean,would anyone even know that?the flash carts ive seen online looked like they would be boxed up and shelved in a real store!

It should be obvious to anyone that something that lets you play all the games for free cant possibly be legal.

darn this is ridiculus. youre the second person who used sarcasm on me today

 

[Lucifer666]

...He's not sarcastic. Every game you'd have on a flashcart is worth $30 which wasn't paid to Nintendo, so if you have about 20 games on there, there's a good $600 that Ninty should have gained.
How is that legal?