Global Warming: The actual charts

Lacius · Jul 16, 2019

@Nerdtendo
We know from that chart of temperatures over the last 800,000 years that temperatures are correlated with the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. The carbon dioxide levels are about twice as high now than the highest points they ever were over the last 800,000 years, and the speed at which carbon dioxide levels are increasing is faster than it has ever been in the entire history of the Earth.

Climate change is a very real issue, and I suggest you educate yourself.

Atmospheric-carbon-dioxide-CO2-levels-long-term-historic-800000-years.png

Hanafuda · Jul 16, 2019

If you really think 'manmade global warming' is destroying the planet, and/or our ability to live on it, then do your part to fight it. Turn off and unplug your computer. Turn off your television. Stop charging your cellphone and go back to copper landline. Turn off your lights. Sell your car and travel only on foot or bicycle (train/bus/ship allowed for long distance. no flying though.). Grow as many vegetables on your land as possible, and stop eating meat altogether. Stop buying industrially manufactured goods.

If you're not doing those things, then it's clear that the manmade global warming crisis is not as important to you as your dependence on the things causing it. Which makes it impossible for you to lead by example, because it looks like hypocrisy to the rest of us who aren't sure about it.

Essometer · Jul 16, 2019

Nerdtendo said:
I really don't know what to tell you. Go Google the charts yourself. We are hovering at roughly .6 degrees higher than the norm.

With all this 2° talk I'm getting confused. The charts shows several peaks way above 2° and life is still here. How come this time 2° is gonna mess everyone up?

My full issue is insufficient data. People are looking at the charts where we actually could measure temperatures and extrapolating trends in what it will look like in the future. I honestly don't think we have enough data to reliably do that. Maybe in another 50 or so years but as it stands, there are too many variables that we can't predict

You are correct, life is still here. The problem lies in what the earth looked like in these peek periodes. We are talking about drastically different eco-systems. We are currently in a very
comfortable state climawise. Apart from some extreme regions like desserts and the North/South-pole, almost very corner of the earth is habitable. While there are some weather extrems like hurricans or
drought, it is managable that people can life their life. The crops we grow are adapted to the current clima and are breed them to be this way for in some cases 4000 years.

Clima change that all this things we take for granted are going to change. We will se more extreme weather phenomenonse to the point that some regions are no longer be habitable, which in
case will lead to mass migration. Lesser crop yield will effect prices in a way that people can no longer afford their food, which also will lead to migration.
Heat period will increase, which will lead to a scarcity of water. All this will effect us as a global society. It will cost a lot of money, time and lives if we keep going on
like we don't care and sadly, this is the case right now.

tl;dr: Life, uh, finds a way, but our current way of life is not sustainable.

Ratatattat · Jul 16, 2019

Hanafuda said:
If you really think 'manmade global warming' is destroying the planet, and/or our ability to live on it, then do your part to fight it. Turn off and unplug your computer. Turn off your television. Stop charging your cellphone and go back to copper landline. Turn off your lights. Sell your car and travel only on foot or bicycle (train/bus/ship allowed for long distance. no flying though.). Grow as many vegetables on your land as possible, and stop eating meat altogether. Stop buying industrially manufactured goods.

If you're not doing those things, then it's clear that the manmade global warming crisis is not as important to you as your dependence on the things causing it. Which makes it impossible for you to lead by example, because it looks like hypocrisy to the rest of us who aren't sure about it.

Its really very simple. What if your wrong? We have no other place in the universe. Kind of a big gamble to take.

Lacius · Jul 16, 2019

Hanafuda said:
If you really think 'manmade global warming' is destroying the planet, and/or our ability to live on it, then do your part to fight it. Turn off and unplug your computer. Turn off your television. Stop charging your cellphone and go back to copper landline. Turn off your lights. Sell your car and travel only on foot or bicycle (train/bus/ship allowed for long distance. no flying though.). Grow as many vegetables on your land as possible, and stop eating meat altogether. Stop buying industrially manufactured goods.

If you're not doing those things, then it's clear that the manmade global warming crisis is not as important to you as your dependence on the things causing it. Which makes it impossible for you to lead by example, because it looks like hypocrisy to the rest of us who aren't sure about it.

The issue isn't that people aren't "doing their part." It's a systemic problem.

notimp · Jul 16, 2019

Hanafuda said:
If you really think 'manmade global warming' is destroying the planet, and/or our ability to live on it, then do your part to fight it. Turn off and unplug your computer. Turn off your television. Stop charging your cellphone and go back to copper landline. Turn off your lights. Sell your car and travel only on foot or bicycle (train/bus/ship allowed for long distance. no flying though.). Grow as many vegetables on your land as possible, and stop eating meat altogether. Stop buying industrially manufactured goods.

If you're not doing those things, then it's clear that the manmade global warming crisis is not as important to you as your dependence on the things causing it. Which makes it impossible for you to lead by example, because it looks like hypocrisy to the rest of us who aren't sure about it.

Imho absolutely correct.

A few days ago, a funny statistic came out, that showed that online porn streaming uses more energy, than my entire country.

Germany currently blames Brazil, that gaining more industrial plantation areals, by burning down forests causes I think six times the CO2 footprint yearly that germany produces. (Industrial country, so high output.)

So here is how you deal with it in concept - regardless. You make it an international issue and have everyone pitch in to do their part.

You make "I'm so low CO2 footprint" a religion. Apparently. We'll see how well that works. Kind of doesnt work on me, sadly. (In principal. In practice I'm probably low carbon footprint already - but I refuse to feel good about it. (You cant buy anything from being good at following a trend, that tells you not to take part in capitalism, or not to own anything in society...

)

And I basically think, that most digital economies are a scam, that mostly work because the majorities wants easy, and best. So you sell them something..

So I don't think of them as working alternatives, for people to spend money on to 'be happy'.)

Hanafuda · Jul 16, 2019

Lacius said:
The issue isn't that people aren't "doing their part." It's a systemic problem.

mm-hmm.

notimp said:
Imho absolutely correct.

So here is how you deal with it in concept - regardless. You make it an international issue and have everyone pitch in to do their part.

You first.

Ratatattat said:
Its really very simple. What if your wrong? We have no other place in the universe. Kind of a big gamble to take.

I'm just saying if you believe this stuff, then act like it. Stop contributing to it. Your dedication and sacrifice will be an example to inspire us. When you go on the internet on a video gaming board to complain about global warming though, hard to take you serious.

bodefuceta · Jul 16, 2019

Good thread. Best way to fight lies is to spread the truth. Also it's important to note who is behind all the alarmist predictions and the fact they've been mostly wrong and seem to have an agenda. Though it's obviously hard to demonstrate their newer predictions are wrong, the older ones are all over the place, like this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20181009175726/https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0

Lacius · Jul 16, 2019

bodefuceta said:
Good thread. Best way to fight lies is to spread the truth. Also it's important to note who is behind all the alarmist predictions and the fact they've been mostly wrong and seem to have an agenda. Though it's obviously hard to demonstrate their newer predictions are wrong, the older ones are all over the place, like this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20181009175726/https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0

Virtually all of the climate change predictions have come true or are starting to come true, including the one you linked to.

osaka35 · Jul 16, 2019

bodefuceta said:
Good thread. Best way to fight lies is to spread the truth. Also it's important to note who is behind all the alarmist predictions and the fact they've been mostly wrong and seem to have an agenda. Though it's obviously hard to demonstrate their newer predictions are wrong, the older ones are all over the place, like this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20181009175726/https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0

It's only helpful if people understand the truth. The article you linked warned about being unable to change things if we don't get a handle on things by the year 2000, it may be too late by then. It then talks about the results of not being able to get it under control. they are *not* saying those things will happen by the year 2000. They are saying it'll be near impossible to turn around the problem which will eventually cause those things like sea rise. Go ahead, re-read it. it's not saying what you think it's saying. And looking at the graphs, it will continually get harder and harder to turn this thing around.

Lacius · Jul 16, 2019

Hanafuda said:
I'm just saying if you believe this stuff, then act like it. Stop contributing to it. Your dedication and sacrifice will be an example to inspire us. When you go on the internet on a video gaming board to complain about global warming though, hard to take you serious.

The issue is systemic. Please don't be disingenuous and act like my being on GBATemp substantively affects the crisis one way or another, for example.

Hanafuda · Jul 16, 2019

Lacius said:
The issue is systemic. Please don't be disingenuous and act like my being on GBATemp substantively affects the crisis one way or another, for example.

You being on GBAtemp means you are using a computer, or cellphone, correct? Which means you are contributing to the industries that mine the metals, you are contributing to the industries that manufacture the hardware, you are contributing to the industries that produce the electricity. The cumulative effect of all of us who take part in computer technology entertainment, i.e. social media, internet, video games ... is massive. @notimp made reference to a recent article that got some attention along those lines, re: streaming porn. So you want to tell everyone else how I guess global government needs to put the bootheel on their lifestyle for the good of the planet, but you're not taking the obvious and easy step of reducing your contribution to the problem. That's personal, selfish convenience. That's hypocrisy.

Just sayin'.

notimp · Jul 16, 2019

bodefuceta said:
Good thread. Best way to fight lies is to spread the truth. Also it's important to note who is behind all the alarmist predictions and the fact they've been mostly wrong and seem to have an agenda.

No. Yes but no.

Issue is real. Alarmism helps in the prediction models to kind of mold consumer/middle class' behavior not to demand reasonable growth rates

So the alarmism helps.

But then - yes those people might be a little overzealous in communicating their reality. But then - its really a pressing issue, that countries dont necessarily _want_ to invest heavily into (because outcomes are along the lines of 'less worse'

).

Different interests and different investor groups you have everywhere (and on both ends..

) its interesting to note, that the main investors in "green sustainable" are faith based investors, state funds, pension funds, ...

Blackrock and Vanguard (the new unregulated big boys, read up on them..

) havent divested to invest in green/climate neutral/energy transition yet.

So from the investors point of view its also long term vs short term oriented. Kind of..

@Hanafuda: Porn streaming probably reduces birth ratets, so no.

*jk* (but only half jokingly..

)

Ratatattat · Jul 16, 2019

Hanafuda said:
You being on GBAtemp means you are using a computer, or cellphone, correct? Which means you are contributing to the industries that mine the metals, you are contributing to the industries that manufacture the hardware, you are contributing to the industries that produce the electricity. The cumulative effect of all of us who take part in computer technology entertainment, i.e. social media, internet, video games ... is massive. @notimp made reference to a recent article that got some attention along those lines, re: streaming porn. So you want to tell everyone else how I guess global government needs to put the bootheel on their lifestyle for the good of the planet, but you're not taking the obvious and easy step of reducing your contribution to the problem. That's personal, selfish convenience. That's hypocrisy.

Just sayin'.

What a exaggeration of reality.

bodefuceta · Jul 16, 2019

Lacius said:
Virtually all of the climate change predictions have come true or are starting to come true, including the one you linked to.

You're beyond help. We're nowhere near anything that "could" happen as stated in that article and saying whatever may have happened by then and 2000 would cause it is completely absurd. Though that really wasn't the best example article since it just speculates. Remember Al gore and the ice caps? I do.

I'm not saying there isn't serious study in climate change. Neither that it shouldn't be studied. But whatever is being told to the public, specially from popular figures like Al gore and today's youtubers or whatever, is very clearly suspect and under an agenda.

Lacius · Jul 16, 2019

Hanafuda said:
You being on GBAtemp means you are using a computer, or cellphone, correct? Which means you are contributing to the industries that mine the metals, you are contributing to the industries that manufacture the hardware, you are contributing to the industries that produce the electricity. The cumulative effect of all of us who take part in computer technology entertainment, i.e. social media, internet, video games ... is massive. @notimp made reference to a recent article that got some attention along those lines, re: streaming porn. So you want to tell everyone else how I guess global government needs to put the bootheel on their lifestyle for the good of the planet, but you're not taking the obvious and easy step of reducing your contribution to the problem. That's personal, selfish convenience. That's hypocrisy.

Just sayin'.

The fact that the problem would be just as bad if I refused to use modern technology demonstrates the problem is systemic. It's not hypocritical to fight against climate change while also using a laptop. The impact is negligible, and it doesn't address the actual problems and solutions.

Hanafuda · Jul 16, 2019

Ratatattat said:
What a exaggeration of reality.

You mean like global warming?

Sorry, you're here using unnecessary electricity, so you're either not really serious about it, or you just expect everyone else to do something about it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Lacius said:
The fact that the problem would be just as bad if I refused to use modern technology demonstrates the problem is systemic. It's not hypocritical to fight against climate change while also using a laptop. The impact is negligible, and it doesn't address the actual problems and solutions.

So you're saying if all the climate change believers worldwide stopped using the internet, personal use of PC's, personal use of cellphones, automobiles, televisions, electric lights, heaters, air conditioning .... that it would make no difference??

If one person's actions make no difference is your argument, then leave people alone about their 'carbon footprint.' That's all about guilt-tripping at the individual level, but you don't want to hear about your own unnecessary power consumption.

notimp said:
@Hanafuda: Porn streaming probably reduces birth ratets, so no. *jk* (but only half jokingly.. )

Fair point. : )

ghjfdtg · Jul 16, 2019

Life had enough time to prepare in the past when these spikes happened but now we make temps and CO² rise so fast that many animals, insects and plants may not be able to compensate. At the same time we destroy forests which are the only effective way to get rid of CO². Anyone who believes this is not our fault is a moron.

Lacius · Jul 16, 2019

bodefuceta said:
We're nowhere near anything that "could" happen as stated in that article

The article cites flooding in Bangladesh as a likely result of climate change. A news article published today cites one hundred people dead and tens of thousands displaced due to flooding. You're objectively wrong here.

bodefuceta said:
saying whatever may have happened by then and 2000 would cause it is completely absurd. Though that really wasn't the best example article since it just speculates.

The article described how carbon dioxide emissions needed to be reduced by 2000 before passing a figurative "point of no return." The predicted consequences were sea level rise, flooding, the consequences of those two things, etc. The climate change predictions have virtually all been correct.

bodefuceta said:
Remember Al gore and the ice caps? I do.

The polar ice caps are definitely melting. What are you talking about?

Hanafuda said:
Sorry, you're here using unnecessary electricity, so you're either not really serious about it, or you just expect everyone else to do something about it.

Advocating for systemic solutions to systemic problems is not even close to "expecting everyone else" to do something about it.

You're also suggesting that internet usage in a modern society is "unnecessary electricity," and that's just false.

Hanafuda said:
So you're saying if all the climate change believers worldwide stopped using the internet, personal use of PC's, personal use of cellphones .... that it would make no difference??

Using the internet, etc. isn't the problem. The problem is where we get our energy, and that's a systemic problem.

Also, suggesting that a group of people (a system, if you will) stop using the internet, etc. is proposing a systemic solution to a systemic problem (albeit a bad solution, since it doesn't address the systemic problems). It's also unreasonable.

@Hanafuda, you can argue for or against climate change as a human-caused issue (it is one), and you can argue for or against ways to curb climate change, but saying a human in a modern society who acknowledges climate change as a problem but also uses electricity is being hypocritical is utter nonsense. Me not using electricity is untenable, it would accomplish practically nothing, and it doesn't address the systemic causes of climate change. There are reasonable things people can and should do to reduce one's carbon footprint, but that's a very small part of the solution, and you're being ridiculous when you say "don't use electricity if you care so much." That would be like saying I should kill myself to reduce carbon emissions. Similarly, it's untenable, it would accomplish practically nothing, and it doesn't address the systemic causes of climate change. Your nonargument argument only serves as a distraction and a way to remove yourself from the conversation. Nothing is accomplished by it.

Hanafuda · Jul 16, 2019

Lacius said:
Also, suggesting that a group of people (a system, if you will) stop using the internet, etc. is proposing a systemic solution to a systemic problem (albeit a bad solution, since it doesn't address the systemic problems). It's also unreasonable.

I agree. It's unreasonable. I didn't just mean stop using the internet though - all unnecessary energy use. Automobiles, electric heating, air conditioning, all recreational computer use, etc. Whether it is suggested to apply to only a select group (all climate change believers) or all of human society, I agree. It's unreasonable. And it will never happen, no matter how much hand wringing is done over it. Because Leonardo DiCaprio flies from Cannes to Manhattan by private jet to receive an environmentalist award, then flies right back to France the next morning. Nobody championing the cause acts like they really believe it. So like I said in the first place, looks like a whole lot of hypocrisy. You want to convince people? Walk the walk.

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