Nintendo wins legal case over ROM site, site owner ordered to pay $12 million in damages

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Earlier this summer, Nintendo filed a lawsuit against Jacob Mathias, otherwise known as the owner of LoveROMS and LoveRETRO, sites that notoriously hosted ROM files of retro Nintendo games. Immediately following the legal suit, both of the aforementioned domains were shut down to prevent further issue. Nintendo's legal action also had effects on other websites that had illegal content hosted on their servers, such as Emuparadise, which removed all download links shortly after the lawsuit was made public. Mathias and his wife, who were both charged on mass copyright infringement, plead guilty to the actions of trademark infringement and damages to Nintendo. They then entered settlement talks in order to find an agreeable amount of money to pay as reparations. Today, the final judgement for the case came in, showing that both Jacob Mathias and Nintendo had agreed for the former to pay $12,230,000 to the latter, over 12 million dollars.

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All copyrighted material owned by the couple must also be forfeited, and ownership of LoveROMs.com and LoveRETRO.co has been signed over to Nintendo of Japan.

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the_randomizer

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can't tell if this is supposed to be a jab at me or not but if it is I never mentioned that in my post so
I don't see a problem with eShop as it as though, could use games with more quality imo I guess, but I agree the replacement for Virtual Console sucks but at this point I've accepted it because it's not worth getting annoyed about. I've also never seen anyone blatantly want the NES games per month though so Idk where that came from.

Point is people need to not be like "omg I hate you Nintendo!!!!!!!!!! never buying ur stuff again!!!!!!!" when this lawsuit, again, is almost certainly not going to force these people to pay fucking $12 million in recompense. Like that article said, it's probably just a scare tactic for other ROM sites. They're sick and tired of people pirating their games and want it to stop, I get that. They are a company and need to protect their property. The question there that people will have is, if they want pirating to stop, why don't they release the games again? Well most of the games already are on consoles like the Wii U and 3DS which still have working eShops. But conversely, the PSP has had some of its games commonly pirated and emulated for years and sales of those games on both the platform itself and Steam haven't been hurt nearly as much as most people would think. So then, why does Nintendo care so much about protecting their games from being pirated and emulated? I dunno, I'm not an expert, I never claimed to be, I don't have all the answers.

But most of those ROMs were third party games, they sure as shit don't own the IP to third party ROMs on Nintendo systems.
 

TheMajesticMrL

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But most of those ROMs were third party games, they sure as shit don't own the IP to third party ROMs on Nintendo systems.
I mean, regardless of who owns the IP it's still stealing and illegal.
There's the argument of having a ROM of a game you own is fine but let's be honest most people download ROMs because they don't have the game

EDIT: I'd like to add to this that there is a lot of debate about what is illegal or legal about ROMs, but sharing and distributing ROMs, as well as hosting them on websites like this couple had done, is illegal. Nintendo had every right to do what they did. However, I'm only defending Nintendo here in that them taking down ROMs of their stuff is 100% within their jurisdiction. But if they want people to stop pirating their games, they need to stop putting them out at full price or on a monthly basis that prevents people from playing them whenever they want.
 
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Ritsuki

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Again, I reiterate that piracy is not the same as theft. It's like I rent a book from the library or CD, I copy the contents and return the material like normal. Have I physically stolen it? Nope, as far as the library knows, it's good as new, but at my PC, I have a ripped copy of the CD. That's what the modern day definition of piracy is, sadly, Nintendo thinks it's outright theft, but it is a lost potential sale I guess. Funny coming from the people who use publicly available ROMs in the VC, I once compared Kirby's Dream Land 3 in an RPX rip, and matched its code 1:1 to a ROM file I found *shrug*.
Well, not defending Nintendo because I would love to see a library of retro games, even if it means paying for it, and Ninty is far from that, but I don't know where you live but in my country (Switzerland) it's actually illegal to make a copy of a book like that (it's a violation of copyright laws since it's an unauthorized reproduction) and IIRC it's the case in some other countries. We even have an extra fee in schools so they can give us partial copies of copyrighted material. Now, of course, nobody is going to check that because it is physically impossible. So okay, it's really a shame to declare war on those sites without giving a true satisfying alternative, and you're right, comparing it to theft isn't right (actually I never understood that analogy, legally it ISN'T theft, and just like for knowledge or culture, if someone "steals" it from you, you don't lose it, it's just sharing, willingly or not), but it's still illegal, they knew it and now they're facing the consequences.
 
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the_randomizer

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Well, not defending Nintendo because I would love to see a library of retro games, even if it means paying for it, and Ninty is far from that, but I don't know where you live but in my country (Switzerland) it's actually illegal to make a copy of a book like that (it's a violation of copyright laws since it's an unauthorized reproduction) and IIRC it's the case in some other countries. We even have an extra fee in schools so they can give us partial copies of copyrighted material. Now, of course, nobody is going to check that because it is physically impossible. So okay, it's really a shame to declare war on those sites without giving a true satisfying alternative, and you're right, comparing it to theft isn't right (actually I never understood that analogy, legally it ISN'T theft, and just like for knowledge or culture, if someone "steals" it from you, you don't lose it, it's just sharing, willingly or not), but it's still illegal, they knew it and now they're facing the consequences.

Exactly, at its core, piracy is the illegal duplication of copyrighted works, and more often than not, is punishable in a civil court and not criminal court. That said, Nintendo isn't changing their stance, nor offering more on the Switch, so as such, I'll continue to use said old ROMs until such a time I can get them legally on said console.
 
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RedBlueGreen

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It was decided between them, so I imagine he looked at his bank balance and told them what he could afford to pay based on how much money he'd been making off all of you by selling pirated roms.

He probably still walked away with a large chunk of cash.

Meanwhile Nintendo haven't gone after every rom site, just the ones making obsene amounts of money from it.

What I can't work out is why the SJW are defending people making millions of dollars out of this, when there are ways of getting them for free. I guess it makes their balls feel bigger or something.
I guarantee the defendant didn't decide he wanted to pay them that much. Either Nintendo's lawyers picked some even more ridiculously high amount and they negotiated down, or they just arbitrarily picked $12,000,000.
 

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I guarantee the defendant didn't decide he wanted to pay them that much. Either Nintendo's lawyers picked some even more ridiculously high amount and they negotiated down, or they just arbitrarily picked $12,000,000.

I can guarantee he did choose to pay them.

1. Nobody forced him to settle.

2. If he can't afford 12 million then he will not pay it. As it's a civil case then I believe bankruptcy will wipe out his debt to nintendo.

3. If he's not going to pay it back then he may as well have gone to court and tried his luck.

Of course he would have wanted to pay $0, but he did chose to offer more.
 
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Obveron

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Not sure what the law is over there, but can't they file for bankruptcy and not pay a cent? But $12mil, that is a fare amount of spare change, funny how Nintendo lawyers who think a simple family couple can afford to cough up that much of $$$.
Bankruptcy doesn't work that way. You have to pay every cent you have before you can claim bankruptcy. Nintendo likely doesn't expect the entire amount. but it's a high enough amount that it warns any individual they will lose all their wealth if sued by Nintendo.
 

smf

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Bankruptcy doesn't work that way. You have to pay every cent you have before you can claim bankruptcy.

Right, you walk away from bankruptcy with nothing (that is traceable). They let you keep things if you can prove they are necessary to your work, you give any money you make that you don't need to live on for the next few years.

If you live in a rented house and have a rented car, then you pretty much can go bankrupt without paying anything. It helps if you planned to do that all along & have managed to hide investments.

Nintendo likely doesn't expect the entire amount. but it's a high enough amount that it warns any individual they will lose all their wealth if sued by Nintendo.

If they sued 99% of people for a million then it would be enough to take all their wealth.
 
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I love how people think they understand how to run a business, let alone a multibillion dollar corporation.

And reading through this, only one person seems to have noticed that Nintendo was initially asking an amount that totaled into the billions, so $12 million was being let off easy in comparison.

Hate on Nintendo all you want, but they are within their legal right to enforce their IP, and they have to do it. If they don't they will be in a weak position for if someone comes along and does something especially damaging with their IP.
 
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Song of storms

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I was so sick and tired of the whole retarded "you can't download games anywhere else" that I actually took the effort of looking up the most downloaded rom files on famous pirate websites. Title on the left, number of downloads on the right.

Super Mario World - ~6,900,000+ virtual console: available. Rarity: common
Pokemon Yellow Version - ~3,000,000 virtual console: available. Rarity: common
Mario Kart 64 - ~2,700,000 virtual console: available. Rarity: common
Donkey Kong Country - 2,500,000+ virtual console: available. Rarity: common
Pokemon Gold Version ~2,500,000 virtual console: available. Rarity: common

There are a ton other ROMs that have been downloaded millions of times that are all either available on virtual console or you can buy cheap from the original console, or they even received a well-acclaimed remake, available to purchase. The only game I've seen breaking the million downloads that isn't available on virtual console is Dragonball Z: Buu's fury, a third party game where Nintendo has no rights to add on a virtual console on their own.

(I can't provide the name of the rom website, sorry. It's my mania to follow the rules)

Can we drop the retarded argument that these websites are "needed" to "preserve" games when all they're doing are letting millions of people download games they didn't buy? Of course a company like Nintendo has to step in. Do you want to "preserve" games? Make an illegal website that hosts torrents that lead to games that are no longer available anywhere. But no one does that. Why? Because these websites don't give a shit about your "preservation" morale and just want an easy profit.
 

tiamat999

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But what about like phantasy star portable 2 infinity my favorite game ever can only be played on psp emu.doesnt help that sega themselves removed it from store so yeah we need these sites to exist
 
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Kioku

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But what about like phantasy star portable 2 infinity my favorite game ever can only be played on psp emu.doesnt help that sega themselves removed it from store so yeah we need these sites to exist
Allow me to explain something to you. This is an easy concept to grasp, and there are two parts to it, yeah?

1. No, we don't NEED these sites to "exist". You can't keep throwing the argument around that you're looking to preserve the games or that you can't legally acquire them. I don't care that you pirate, but don't make half assed excuses for it.

2. These sites and resources will never cease to exist. This specific case was they were making money off of it. I know some of the people here don't understand they offered a premium service and actually turned a profit on ad revenue due to the excessive clicks they got daily. They weren't exactly "small" by any means. It's one of an infinite number of sites.
 

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Allow me to explain something to you. This is an easy concept to grasp, and there are two parts to it, yeah?

1. No, we don't NEED these sites to "exist". You can't keep throwing the argument around that you're looking to preserve the games or that you can't legally acquire them. I don't care that you pirate, but don't make half assed excuses for it.

2. These sites and resources will never cease to exist. This specific case was they were making money off of it. I know some of the people here don't understand they offered a premium service and actually turned a profit on ad revenue due to the excessive clicks they got daily. They weren't exactly "small" by any means. It's one of an infinite number of sites.

Well if sega wants to re release it i will be more than happy to buy it but until than arrrrggggghhhhh
 

Zidapi

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Tell me you stupid Ninty. Where am I supposed to get your OLD FOCKING GAMES???
eBay? Retro game stores? Virtual Console/eShop?

aka the same places the rest of us get them.

Both the law and Nintendo’s stance on ROMs is clear, there’s no pleading ignorance on this topic.

Nintendo have a long history of aggressively defending their IP, anyone baiting them does so at their own risk.
 
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Kubas_inko

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eBay? Retro game stores? Virtual Console/eShop?

aka the same places the rest of us get them.

Both the law and Nintendo’s stance on ROMs is clear.

There’s no pleading ignorance. Anyone breaking the law does so at their own risk.
From which only 1 generates profit towards nintendo and not every game is on vc
 
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Sundree

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Look, I understand if you're sueing them, if they're giving out Wii, Wii U, or Switch roms. But if it's anything below the 7th generation of console's, I think it's ok to let them go. You're not going to lose any money over a game that's no longer being sold at retail. What? Are you going to re-sell NES games that can barely hold someone's attention for a month, for $10 dollars on virtual console?

I'm sorry, I think $10 is a little steep for Ice Climbers and Urban Champ.
 

Freqman

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think they would sell more games on their web service or on the eshop if they effectively got rid of every single roms site and sharing methods tomorrow? nope.
 

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