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What's your general opinion of Christianity?

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Ev1l0rd

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On the subject of wider religion, I decided to for a moment entertain the idea of a "god" existing. Ramble incoming so uh, prepare for that I suppose.

Let's take a moment to assume that there is, indeed, as most religious people say a "higher being".

Let's also take the assumption that this being is responsible for the creation of existence in some form.

How in the world would such a creature be:
  • Interested in humanity. We're nothing but a single grain of sand in the grand scheme of the universe. Why in the world would such a creature even be aware of our existence and more importantly: why would they care. Such a being would have to operate on a much larger scale than just the whims of a bunch of monkeys on a tiny planet.
  • Assuming such an all-powerful ominpotent creature would exist, and taking the general assumption of most religions that this creature would be beneficial to mankind, what would be the beneficial part of people starving in Africa, people waging wars in the name of their religion, and general human misery. If a higher being would beneficial to mankind. What would be the beneficial part of all that? We can take the reasonable conclusion that a creature capable of creating existence would have the power to end all human misery. Why doesn't it do that.
  • Taking that previous into account, there are only two conclusions here: The higher being is incapable of influencing the universe (in which case, why bother worshipping it) or is morally evil and as a result should not be worshipped.
As you can hopefully see, even if I take the assumptions (aka 2 times in assuming that a higher being might exist and that it's a creature worthy of the designation of god and 2 more in that it would be "beneficial" to mankind) and considering that, it would put any higher being firmly in the spot of "a massive dickwaffle".

Finally, I hope you understand how many assumptions I would need to make to assume that any of this is true. I don't base the creation of the universe on assumptions. Science so far has managed to back up the origins of the universe to the event of the Big Bang which was started by the Big Foreplay, which is able to get backed up by facts and modern physics (the universe is gradually expanding from a central point, which is measurable, and other evidence that goes under "empirical" evidence).

On the other hand, the idea of a "higher being" being responsible for existence has no direct evidence other than "Holy book x says so", which I argued before is circular reasoning and as a result is a fallacious argument that isn't convincing me of such a creature being in existence.
 
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JaapDaniels

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Proof?
Your opinion is not proof.
okay when ever before Maria was there is Jesus name excactly been called as being our saver (i mean the same writing), when before Mohammed was ther ttalked about he'd being a profet of god?
when before Mozes was yahweh been called god? when before the thora was there any written proof of this being god?
people need a god to excist for reason to live, for not being scared, much like a child sometimes makes up an immaginair friend.
when a group of people is searching for answers on questions not yet solved by proof/research and someone comes up with a plausible story we mostly agree since we need answers now.
we as general people want answers cause we're lasy, we want answers and we want them now. the greek needed about 40000 years to find out what's causing lava to come out of a mountain, but poeple who lost a child to lava couldn't wait 40000 years for an explenation, so they made a god, to ease thier mind.
people often when with a trauma are thirsty for answers and in many cases sience doesn't have any that fills thier hart, so most of those will ask help in other finders, this could be god, or meditation or meds.
god is only a god when people start calling him or her god, by this it is men made religion.
funny to note is that monkeys do the same as humans, they also make gods when in trauma.
 

PanTheFaun

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okay when ever before Maria was there is Jesus name excactly been called as being our saver (i mean the same writing), when before Mohammed was ther ttalked about he'd being a profet of god?
when before Mozes was yahweh been called god? when before the thora was there any written proof of this being god?
people need a god to excist for reason to live, for not being scared, much like a child sometimes makes up an immaginair friend.
when a group of people is searching for answers on questions not yet solved by proof/research and someone comes up with a plausible story we mostly agree since we need answers now.
we as general people want answers cause we're lasy, we want answers and we want them now. the greek needed about 40000 years to find out what's causing lava to come out of a mountain, but poeple who lost a child to lava couldn't wait 40000 years for an explenation, so they made a god, to ease thier mind.
people often when with a trauma are thirsty for answers and in many cases sience doesn't have any that fills thier hart, so most of those will ask help in other finders, this could be god, or meditation or meds.
god is only a god when people start calling him or her god, by this it is men made religion.
funny to note is that monkeys do the same as humans, they also make gods when in trauma.
I would take you more seriously if I understood what you wrote. No offense.
 

JaapDaniels

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I would take you more seriously if I understood what you wrote. No offense.
explain, my english isn't the best there is, so tell me what you mean.
Because none of the profets had proof of thier being send by GOD, i can't take thier word as proof of it being of any god.
Because each GOD is only in our world, since we called, it's man made. this is just like we made dragons or unique horns since we wrote about such creatures.
 
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Ratatattat

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On the subject of wider religion, I decided to for a moment entertain the idea of a "god" existing. Ramble incoming so uh, prepare for that I suppose.

Let's take a moment to assume that there is, indeed, as most religious people say a "higher being".

Let's also take the assumption that this being is responsible for the creation of existence in some form.

How in the world would such a creature be:
  • Interested in humanity. We're nothing but a single grain of sand in the grand scheme of the universe. Why in the world would such a creature even be aware of our existence and more importantly: why would they care. Such a being would have to operate on a much larger scale than just the whims of a bunch of monkeys on a tiny planet.
  • Assuming such an all-powerful ominpotent creature would exist, and taking the general assumption of most religions that this creature would be beneficial to mankind, what would be the beneficial part of people starving in Africa, people waging wars in the name of their religion, and general human misery. If a higher being would beneficial to mankind. What would be the beneficial part of all that? We can take the reasonable conclusion that a creature capable of creating existence would have the power to end all human misery. Why doesn't it do that.
  • Taking that previous into account, there are only two conclusions here: The higher being is incapable of influencing the universe (in which case, why bother worshipping it) or is morally evil and as a result should not be worshipped.
As you can hopefully see, even if I take the assumptions (aka 2 times in assuming that a higher being might exist and that it's a creature worthy of the designation of god and 2 more in that it would be "beneficial" to mankind) and considering that, it would put any higher being firmly in the spot of "a massive dickwaffle".

Finally, I hope you understand how many assumptions I would need to make to assume that any of this is true. I don't base the creation of the universe on assumptions. Science so far has managed to back up the origins of the universe to the event of the Big Bang which was started by the Big Foreplay, which is able to get backed up by facts and modern physics (the universe is gradually expanding from a central point, which is measurable, and other evidence that goes under "empirical" evidence).

On the other hand, the idea of a "higher being" being responsible for existence has no direct evidence other than "Holy book x says so", which I argued before is circular reasoning and as a result is a fallacious argument that isn't convincing me of such a creature being in existence.

Your confusing GOD with religion. Religion is Man made.
As for science what existed before the big bang? Why was there a big bang? Even science admits it doesn't know.
 

bandithedoge

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I don't care about religion, sexual orientation and annoying stuff like this. As an atheist I love debates where the other person respects my beliefs. I will respect you whatever you think, as long as you're not trying to shove your opinion down my throat.
 

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generally, I am a mix. I was baptised when I was born, apparently making me a "child of God."

Personally, I have strong thoughts that the bible is just full of stories. Even my Dad agrees that the stories are fake, but we (according to our faith) have to believe in it.
 

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Fake religion. Islam is the true one, but many people confuse Islam as being the religion of terrorists, they are not real Muslims and are hypocrites. In real Islam, there is no such thing as killing to attain peace. Terrorists' main goal is to wipe the real Islam
there-are-almost-5-000-gods-being-worshiped-by-human-but-4976342.png
 

PanTheFaun

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generally, I am a mix. I was baptised when I was born, apparently making me a "child of God."

Personally, I have strong thoughts that the bible is just full of stories. Even my Dad agrees that the stories are fake, but we (according to our faith) have to believe in it.
If you don't believe in the teachings then you aren't apart of that faith. You only use the name.
 
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JaapDaniels

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Your confusing GOD with religion. Religion is Man made.
As for science what existed before the big bang? Why was there a big bang? Even science admits it doesn't know.
sience tells you excactly how/why.
there's a big bang for just like nuclear bomb, the gas we called nothing, was not nothing, just nothing in any form we could discribe.
this gas was unstable, so on multiple points in the universe it ignited itself, this type of bomb doesn't need a spark.
sience can now even create (sick)life out of death cells.
why do i say sick, since the cell will work like a virus when rivived.
any religion and any god in any form is man made.
what you tell me sound like you've made a new god/religion on your own.
saying this all, sound maybe like i hate all gods or so.
i don't just a warning for following a group of belevers blindly, cause there's a good chance that someone gains more then you want him or her to.
 

Ratatattat

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Neither is your claim

and where is my claim?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

sience tells you excactly how/why.
there's a big bang for just like nuclear bomb, the gas we called nothing, was not nothing, just nothing in any form we could discribe.
this gas was unstable, so on multiple points in the universe it ignited itself, this type of bomb doesn't need a spark.
sience can now even create (sick)life out of death cells.
why do i say sick, since the cell will work like a virus when rivived.
any religion and any god in any form is man made.
what you tell me sound like you've made a new god/religion on your own.
saying this all, sound maybe like i hate all gods or so.
i don't just a warning for following a group of belevers blindly, cause there's a good chance that someone gains more then you want him or her to.

Science tells us it doesn't know what was in the first few milliseconds of the big bang because the current laws of physics did not apply. Therefore there is no scientific proof either way of what or why the big bang occurred. Could it have happen naturally. Possibly. Could there have been a creator. Possibly. There is no proof either way.
 

chrisrlink

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at least theres no cult worshiping Arceus irl could happen i mean Jedi is an actual religion/cult anyway it's bad enough that it's values are found in country laws (speaking for the US) Anti Abortion,Anti Gay/Lesbian (more on the marriage/Adoption area of it) even Polygamy is outlawed and that was outlawed natino wide around th birth of our country on the other end at least it's not a Muslim country as in aspect of laws (indonesa a majority muslim country) you can be put to death YES DEATH for masturbating They'd kill me over 1000 times by now
 

PanTheFaun

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And your proof there is a GOD? I'm not a fool to just blindly believe something because I was told it was true.
An all powerful being or beings may exist but we really don't know. The ancients believed in them and wrote about them before Christianity, Islam, or Judaism was even a thing.
 

eworm

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On the subject of wider religion, I decided to for a moment entertain the idea of a "god" existing. Ramble incoming so uh, prepare for that I suppose.

Let's take a moment to assume that there is, indeed, as most religious people say a "higher being".

Let's also take the assumption that this being is responsible for the creation of existence in some form.

How in the world would such a creature be:
  • Interested in humanity. We're nothing but a single grain of sand in the grand scheme of the universe. Why in the world would such a creature even be aware of our existence and more importantly: why would they care. Such a being would have to operate on a much larger scale than just the whims of a bunch of monkeys on a tiny planet.
Let's twist this argument around - if such a being existed and was the creator of the universe, why would ANYTHING in the universe exist? It's all so small and (according to your assumption) insignificant in comparison, after all. The assumption here is that big = important. This is a logical fallacy. An emotional argument in a sense - the world is so big and vast and mysterious and intimidating therefore it "must" be more important, more valuable than humanity. But apply the same faulty logic to anything else and you suddenly have basketball players who are "more valuable" than short people and adults that really shouldn't care about the small, frail, ignorant kids. Because they're "less".

  • Assuming such an all-powerful ominpotent creature would exist, and taking the general assumption of most religions that this creature would be beneficial to mankind, what would be the beneficial part of people starving in Africa, people waging wars in the name of their religion, and general human misery. If a higher being would beneficial to mankind. What would be the beneficial part of all that? We can take the reasonable conclusion that a creature capable of creating existence would have the power to end all human misery. Why doesn't it do that.
And here it is... How is this argument not dead after having been refuted repeatedly for centuries now, I swear.
Do you have the means to board a plane and fly some food to those starving African children? I assume you have or at least it wouldn't took too much effort to save a bit of cash for a ticket. Why don't you then? Are you a hypocrite? Are you using the tragedy of many people less fortunate than you to paint an emotionally charged picture to avoid actually refuting an argument?
Probably not, actually. Still, this is actually the crux of the argument.
This argument is an argument from laziness. "God is all-powerful and all-knowing and all-loving, why would we, humans, need to do anything, act properly, help each other, be responsible when He could just snap His fingers and make everything okay, reverse every f*ck-up of ours?" Well, why do parents allow their children to make mistakes and to meet with bad consequences of their actions? Why do they not control their every movement, every action, every relationship? What's that? Freedom? Good job, you've found your answer.
God is not gonna fix everything up with magic, because He doesn't WANT to take our free will away. That is what makes us capable of all the best things, even if at the cost of making us capable of all the worst things.
Besides we're already spoiled enough as it is. He's already delivered salvation for us, meaning even the worst possible result of our stupid actions here in the physical reality - death - is not a dealbreaker as far as eternal happiness goes. In the grand scheme of things, these starving people in Africa may be better off than the most privileged of us video-gaming Internet-using couch potatoes. Sure, we should try to make this world as close to Heaven as possible (aka try to return it to its original state, morality-wise), which includes (or rather almost entirely consists of) helping others, but it's wrong to consider all suffering evil, just like it's wrong to consider all pleasure sinful.

Side note, I'd like to ask you where you got that idea that people suffering and starving and killing each other and all that is "wrong" or "evil". I mean, if there is no Good - as in Goodness with a capital G, a supernatural "measuring stick" - then nothing can really be "more good" or "less good". We can only say a game is like Zelda because Zelda games exist. We can only say a city looks like New York, because there is a place called New York. If by saying "Zelda game" we all imagine our own arbitrary games, the conversation becomes nonsense. I'm not saying that atheists can't be morally outstanding people, wonderful people - but denying the supernatural moral standard renders it pointless. Might as well say that using words starting with a "p" is a virtuous thing to do or that eating bananas is a horribly evil thing to do.


As you can hopefully see, even if I take the assumptions (aka 2 times in assuming that a higher being might exist and that it's a creature worthy of the designation of god and 2 more in that it would be "beneficial" to mankind) and considering that, it would put any higher being firmly in the spot of "a massive dickwaffle".
But you're not actually making those assumptions, only saying you do. "Let's say there's a God", you say, "so why is the universe horrible, a statement I believe to be true because people die and that's the end of life, there's nothing after death, no Heaven possible". You ask "why, assuming that God is the creator of the universe, would He care about us, considering there is no god that we would have been made in the image of and therefore be immensely valuable?"

don't base the creation of the universe on assumptions. Science so far has managed to back up the origins of the universe to the event of the Big Bang which was started by the Big Foreplay, which is able to get backed up by facts and modern physics (the universe is gradually expanding from a central point, which is measurable, and other evidence that goes under "empirical" evidence).
Really? You think the Big Bang "explains" the origins of the universe? Tell me then, how could the Big Bang have happened, if things can't "happen" outside of time and time itself didn't exist before the Big Bang? How could all the mass that now is our universe have been concentrated in one tiny point, if there was no "space" in which a "point" could exist in?
The Big Bang is a scientific theory that holds some water, sure - but believing it explains the origin of the universe (space, time, life, free will, all that) is nothing short of a religious belief. It describes the origin of the universe, that's what science does. It tells us "how", but never "why". Even if we eventually reach a point in time when we'll know everything about how the universe works, we "complete" all science - we'll still be nowhere near finding out "why" all that stuff works, what the purpose behind it was and what's the point. These are questions outside the field of science and the modern belief that science can actually answer those is a very illogical one.
 
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