When is the format war going to end?
- Thread starter SlyGuy
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If you mean this format war, then probably within the next couple of years (although with no clear winner, just a triumphant format). As for The Format Wars (that would make a great movie or something
), well, I think it's obvious if you look at the past 20 to 30 years - never.
I'm actually hoping it will push me to either the PS3 or XBOX360, neither of which has a combo drive (and Sony never will)
errr wtf do you need one for anyway? o.O
can you really notice such a HUGE difference in quallity (if any) that would make you want to spend.....whatever amount (a lot) they are worth??
edit: tsk, tsk pointless compulsory consumerism
can you really notice such a HUGE difference in quallity (if any) that would make you want to spend.....whatever amount (a lot) they are worth??
edit: tsk, tsk pointless compulsory consumerism
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The LG combo drive is still price, $1200 US. It'll take another 3 years or so for more companies to make combo drives and to bring the price-wars and get them for a more reasonable amount.
The question becomes, can HD-DVD hold out that long against the Sony marketing behemoth?
The question becomes, can HD-DVD hold out that long against the Sony marketing behemoth?
atm it's blu-ray that's winning. although I doubt that'll last once all the other products will start to kick in with HD-DVD drives. Just because it has the "DVD" in it I think.
Some HD porn would be nice to watch on the 40 incher. So I hope Sony decided to release some of it.
Some HD porn would be nice to watch on the 40 incher. So I hope Sony decided to release some of it.
Oh that's so stupid of Sony if they are censoring what can be put on their media. Porn is a HUGE factor in format wars and if Sony alienates that industry....well hello Betamax 2 (aka Blu-Ray)! How idiotic are they if they can't even learn from their OWN mistakes! The Adult Entertainment industry OUTSELLS HOLLYWOOD in home theatre (12 vs. 9 billion annually). So they are wasting their time trying to cajole major movie production companies to support their format if they are going to ignore the biggest player!
Oh Sony! Will you ever learn?
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Not really, VHS only won in the porn industry, because internet wasn't used for porn back then. Now, internet is so convenient, that nobody with half a brains will buy it.
3.6 billion in sales for DVD and VHS last year alone is hardly anything to scoff at. And let's face it, not everyone has the cabability of downloading 1080p video from the internet and hooking up their computer to their widescreen HDTV to display it (or buying a BR-D / HD-DVD burner to burn it, then a player to play it).
Hard-format video is pick-up-and-play so to speak. It will always have a place in the film industry.
Hard-format video is pick-up-and-play so to speak. It will always have a place in the film industry.
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BD and HD-DVD movies sell for about the same price (depends on the movie but generally) I'd have to say go for a cheaper one. Don't think movies max out at either of their capacity, they'll probably fit in like 5GB of stuff in there and say "OH NOES it maxed out in SL DVD, must go for ______" and leave that medias remaining 10GB/20GB blank.
http://whv.warnerbros.com/WHVPORTAL/Portal...8&titleName=300
Movie 300
DVD : $19.97
DVD Special Edition : $22.95 (so SE feature is worth $2.98)
HD DVD SE : $29.95 (minus SE feature cost, =$26.97)
BD : $26.95
If you think saving 2 cents (actually you aren't even saving a cent because .97 became .95 because it went over $20) is worth choosing BD over HD-DVD, go for it...
I'm not aware how much production cost differ from BD to HDDVD, unless BD production cost is noticably cheaper, I suspect BD contains 15GB of same data that's in HD-DVD. But that 15GB's probably enough unless you own like 60" PDP FHDTV.
http://whv.warnerbros.com/WHVPORTAL/Portal...8&titleName=300
Movie 300
DVD : $19.97
DVD Special Edition : $22.95 (so SE feature is worth $2.98)
HD DVD SE : $29.95 (minus SE feature cost, =$26.97)
BD : $26.95
If you think saving 2 cents (actually you aren't even saving a cent because .97 became .95 because it went over $20) is worth choosing BD over HD-DVD, go for it...
I'm not aware how much production cost differ from BD to HDDVD, unless BD production cost is noticably cheaper, I suspect BD contains 15GB of same data that's in HD-DVD. But that 15GB's probably enough unless you own like 60" PDP FHDTV.
Well the extra data allows them to fit in all those special features like commentaries and trailers etc. And I don't think the HD movie will only be 5GB. More likely it will approach 20GB minimum at 1080p. If they want to add special feature in high rez, this will eat up a lot of space too.
In fact, I've seen quite a few DVDs released that had the movie on one disc and then all the special features on a second disc. I've even seen movies like Schindler's List that needed to use both sides of the DVD just to fit the movie!
They will need the extra space and eventually they will use it.
Then again, let's face it. This is a marketing war more than a technological war and the best product doesn't always win.
In fact, I've seen quite a few DVDs released that had the movie on one disc and then all the special features on a second disc. I've even seen movies like Schindler's List that needed to use both sides of the DVD just to fit the movie!
They will need the extra space and eventually they will use it.
Then again, let's face it. This is a marketing war more than a technological war and the best product doesn't always win.
I seem to post in one of these or a similar thread every few months but still.
Porn: Westside said all I would.
Copying: seem to be fairly even these days, perhaps a slight edge for HDDVD but if you can copy then spending 30 more seconds or using the command line probably will not bother you. This BD+ lark may change stuff however.
Quality difference, I can see the difference but only because I trained myself to do so over the course of hundreds of hours encoding stuff. Of course this can be dropped right down when the companies screw up the encoding stage (which with the standards that have been defined, the resolutions used and comparative lack of disk space is all too often). DVDs were/are a genuine step up from previous stuff (VHS, betamax, VCD, SVCD, laserdisk (OK so laserdisks are usually better mastered)
Market penetration: "everyone" has a TV, monitors aside (which may or may not be able to be used courtesy of "piracy concerns" and are "too small") hardly anyone has an "HD" capable display. This makes for an uphill struggle in my world, factor in serious screwups in defining standards: the i/p nonsense, more acronyms than you will ever need all of which have some relevance.
Personally I would have preferred to see something like a new standard with the same discs becoming the norm using MPEG4 AVC instead of MPEG2 say, for example:
Old mastering equipment still works (what better way to make sure loads of new discs get made), sell some software and all the small places and home users can make their own stuff as well (I can make DVDs which places me fairly high in some peoples worlds, those same people have no trouble burning a CD full of their favourite songs though).
"dual video" discs could conceivably be made: check if XXX exists, if err goto DVD. Space may be a problem but I guess you could drop extras like with some of the new DVDs (extras frequently run to nearly half the disc) then you could easily gain the 1000 odd megs required.
new "copy protection" methods and region coding could be employed appeasing those who do not know better: see above
PC wise old hardware would still work (just a software "upgrade" required)
you could still sell the specs at a ridiculous price: again a great way to increase takeup: I only need a $20 upgrade, sign me up.
quality could be made better without question (take a decent DVD and I can make it smaller without a drop in quality and I am an amateur)
standalone playback hardware would not be all that expensive to produce (stuff to decode AVC is not that expensive, ASP (xvid and co) is even less, no need to futz around with blue LEDs either): how much is a 1GHz junk (130nm) processor these days?
Quite how it would figure in I do not know but you could add a "HD" out port to the player
Guess whoever signed off on specs missed basic engineering/market analysis, I suppose you are never too young to start towel flicking your way to the top though.
Edit: Thought I would add a comparative example.
I am an engineer and I called up to design a car for the mass market, "so be it" and I put a team together.
Cue scene involving drawing board and screwed up paper balls
Inspiration
Cue scene 3 with me standing over a guy on a computer whilst I point at a CAD image.
Presentation day:
here it is a hydrogen/gas (as in natural gas not petrol) fuel cell with tantalum capacitor bank driving a superconducting motor (fancy, high tech and arguably "better" than petrol)
"there are about 30 places in the entire country I can "fill 'er up"."
Scene 20 years later: I am working in a supermarket because no other person will employ me after that stunt.
Porn: Westside said all I would.
Copying: seem to be fairly even these days, perhaps a slight edge for HDDVD but if you can copy then spending 30 more seconds or using the command line probably will not bother you. This BD+ lark may change stuff however.
Quality difference, I can see the difference but only because I trained myself to do so over the course of hundreds of hours encoding stuff. Of course this can be dropped right down when the companies screw up the encoding stage (which with the standards that have been defined, the resolutions used and comparative lack of disk space is all too often). DVDs were/are a genuine step up from previous stuff (VHS, betamax, VCD, SVCD, laserdisk (OK so laserdisks are usually better mastered)
Market penetration: "everyone" has a TV, monitors aside (which may or may not be able to be used courtesy of "piracy concerns" and are "too small") hardly anyone has an "HD" capable display. This makes for an uphill struggle in my world, factor in serious screwups in defining standards: the i/p nonsense, more acronyms than you will ever need all of which have some relevance.
Personally I would have preferred to see something like a new standard with the same discs becoming the norm using MPEG4 AVC instead of MPEG2 say, for example:
Old mastering equipment still works (what better way to make sure loads of new discs get made), sell some software and all the small places and home users can make their own stuff as well (I can make DVDs which places me fairly high in some peoples worlds, those same people have no trouble burning a CD full of their favourite songs though).
"dual video" discs could conceivably be made: check if XXX exists, if err goto DVD. Space may be a problem but I guess you could drop extras like with some of the new DVDs (extras frequently run to nearly half the disc) then you could easily gain the 1000 odd megs required.
new "copy protection" methods and region coding could be employed appeasing those who do not know better: see above
PC wise old hardware would still work (just a software "upgrade" required)
you could still sell the specs at a ridiculous price: again a great way to increase takeup: I only need a $20 upgrade, sign me up.
quality could be made better without question (take a decent DVD and I can make it smaller without a drop in quality and I am an amateur)
standalone playback hardware would not be all that expensive to produce (stuff to decode AVC is not that expensive, ASP (xvid and co) is even less, no need to futz around with blue LEDs either): how much is a 1GHz junk (130nm) processor these days?
Quite how it would figure in I do not know but you could add a "HD" out port to the player
Guess whoever signed off on specs missed basic engineering/market analysis, I suppose you are never too young to start towel flicking your way to the top though.
Edit: Thought I would add a comparative example.
I am an engineer and I called up to design a car for the mass market, "so be it" and I put a team together.
Cue scene involving drawing board and screwed up paper balls
Inspiration
Cue scene 3 with me standing over a guy on a computer whilst I point at a CAD image.
Presentation day:
here it is a hydrogen/gas (as in natural gas not petrol) fuel cell with tantalum capacitor bank driving a superconducting motor (fancy, high tech and arguably "better" than petrol)
"there are about 30 places in the entire country I can "fill 'er up"."
Scene 20 years later: I am working in a supermarket because no other person will employ me after that stunt.
The television penetration rate will go up. The end of analog is dated at 2009 (for the U.S., other place like Finland have already gone all digital) that's only about a year and a half away. This is of course under the assumption that they won't push it back yet again. However, I think they basically solved the problem of people with old sets, which I've heard is basically a 60 dollar coupon/discount for a digital to analog converter. This problem was keeping them back for a while because people will not switch if there is not some cheap alternative and the $60 converter is a good price for all digital. Once digital takes over, the quality of media will have to go up. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray pushers knew that this would be an important date so they wanted to pitch first in order to lower cost and maximize profits at the critical moment.
Anyone remember when it was announced that there would be one single broadcasting station for all digital TV?
I think the most critical moment will be either fall or Christmas time of next year. So, the format war could end by 2009 at the earliest and somewhere around 2010 at the latest.
Anyone remember when it was announced that there would be one single broadcasting station for all digital TV?
I think the most critical moment will be either fall or Christmas time of next year. So, the format war could end by 2009 at the earliest and somewhere around 2010 at the latest.
Forgive me if it means something else around you but digital definitely does not mean HD around here. Digital just means you need a tuner on top or built into your TV/PC.
Around here and most other places I have been there needs to be some serious investment though (probably to the tune of what people are getting for auctioning the spectrum) to make sure signal and coverage (my digi box does not pick up channel 3, 4 or numerous other "good" channels) is good though as anyone with a bad digi signal will attest to: a bit of noise (analogue): not a problem, broken video stream and audio (digital): unwatchable for the most part.
I suppose though if this goes on I will start feeling less guilty for considering building a home theatre PC type setup, full blown storage elsewhere +custom OS, apps and devices rather than the tripe that is currently being forced on us naturally but an HTPC none the less.
Digital telly is mostly crap, and its bad through an aerial. Everytime a bus went past it went off, and its like watching a scratched DVD when its windy. Thank god for cable!
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Psionic Roshambo:
32GBs is the baseline for 4K video editing these days and lots of recommendations for 64GBs but for games 16,GBs is honestly plenty for a long time. -
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Psionic Roshambo:
Some sort of police thing going on near me lol "Get out of the car with your hands up and walk backwards towards us" over a loud speaker thing
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