[POLL] 2020 U.S. Presidential Election

[Deleted User]

So. You're an atheist.

The argument is over.

So what's wrong with atheists?
Please enlighten me

 

[Lacius]

So. You're an atheist.

The argument is over.

Well, first of all, my atheism has nothing to do with the broader discussion, and it doesn't make me right or wrong about anything else.

Second, there is no evidence that Adam and Eve ever existed, and there is evidence they did not exist. But, that's getting off topic. Perhaps you should make a religious topic. That should go well.

 

[FAST6191]

If they're painful, you're wearing them wrong. They should be mandated in public spaces. Again, your freedom to not wear a mask stops where my freedom to not unnecessarily increase my risk of COVID exposure begins.

My freedom to walk around nude stops where your freedom to not see me nude begins. You're either for no mask mandates and public nudity, or you're for neither. Pick.

This analogy is only poor in that one is life and death, and the other is modesty.

Do you drive your car at 20mph everywhere? Is every socket in your house RCD/GFI protected? Are your shoes steel toed? Do you not leave the house other than for absolutely essential purposes? When out and about do you carry a first aid kit, indeed do you have say high end medic training in paramedic/emergency medicine? If you have guests what means of testing food you are sharing with them do you employ?

There are many things that can be done to mitigate and lessen risk. The question becomes is the hassle/cost of doing it worth the results?

 

[Deleted User]

Do you drive your car at 20mph everywhere? Is every socket in your house RCD/GFI protected? Are your shoes steel toed? Do you not leave the house other than for absolutely essential purposes? When out and about do you carry a first aid kit, indeed do you have say high end medic training in paramedic/emergency medicine? If you have guests what means of testing food you are sharing with them do you employ?

There are many things that can be done to mitigate and lessen risk. The question becomes is the hassle/cost of doing it worth the results?

looking at other countries who handled it better, i would say yes it is worth doing. There isn't even a question there. Masks are proven to work.

 

[Lacius]

Do you drive your car at 20mph everywhere? Is every socket in your house RCD/GFI protected? Are your shoes steel toed? Do you not leave the house other than for absolutely essential purposes? When out and about do you carry a first aid kit, indeed do you have say high end medic training in paramedic/emergency medicine? If you have guests what means of testing food you are sharing with them do you employ?

There are many things that can be done to mitigate and lessen risk. The question becomes is the hassle/cost of doing it worth the results?

You are correct. There's a calculated risk. I don't carry a first aid kit everywhere, for example.

Given the infectious nature and the death rate of COVID-19, and the low physical and emotional cost of wearing a mask, masks should be mandatory in public until we have a good number of people who have taken the vaccine.

 

[FAST6191]

looking at other countries who handled it better, i would say yes it is worth doing. There isn't even a question there. Masks are proven to work.

Is mask use (or indeed effective mask use) the deciding factor in those instances?

From where I sit there are costs to them (discomfort, financial cost, annoyances like glasses steaming up, inability to lib read, inability to see faces, people presuming a mask is a safety device and taking unnecessary risks, additional contact transmission vector) and there are perks (wear one of suitable material properly, though both of those are something of a big ask* if I go around the shop and my experiences training people in their use is anything to go by, and the asymptomatic but infectious people (however many that might be, itself a debatable number) might well marginally reduce rates of transmission (though marginal is a factor in an exponential equation) in this and maybe some other airborne things (the general flu seems down in Australia, would love to see data on sales of cough medicine too). It is not a panacea though so I am back to questioning things.

*one does typically consider the effective compliance rate vs the ideal case in any medical regime, be it condoms, birth control, antibiotics, transplants, dietary advice and the like.

 

[Doran754]

The measles vaccine is proven to work and measles had a case-fatality rate of approximately 15%, covid is nowhere near this and no covid vaccines exists. When it does it wont be proven to work for a long time. I assume all masks advocates are correctly disposing of their infected masks in hazardous waste bins, right??

At the end of the day you can't get around the fact that if masks and gloves work, and you wear them, then you have nothing to worry about. Saying "wElL, wHaT aBoUt ThE sPrEaD" what about it? People are aware of the risks! If they choose to potentially infect themselves then so be it, it wont affect you because you have a mask on! Don't fain some sort of moral responsibility like you actually care about other peoples well beings, thats just bs whataboutery, you care about control and having people do what you want.

Free thinking non sheep here, sorry.



jk im not sorry

 

[gregory-samba]

Your actions don't just affect your own health. A person's freedoms end where another's begin.

Not wearing a mask is negligent and demonstrates a fundamental disregard for human life.

Funny how that logic applies to the virus situation, but not the murdering of unborn human life situation.

 

[Lacius]

Funny how that logic applies to the virus situation, but not the murdering of unborn human life situation.

1. Abortion is not murder.
2. A fetus is not a person.
3. Regardless, the forced continuation of a pregnancy is a violation of a woman's right to bodily autonomy, whether or not a fetus is a person.
4. Not wearing a mask in a public space during a pandemic is a violation of everybody else's bodily rights. There is no inconsistency.

 

[gregory-samba]

1. Abortion is not murder.
2. A fetus is not a person.
3. Regardless, the forced continuation of a pregnancy is a violation of a woman's right to bodily autonomy, whether or not a fetus is a person.
4. Not wearing a mask in a public space during a pandemic is a violation of everybody else's bodily rights. There is no inconsistency.

Yeah, I've heard it all, but I don't really care what fetus/unborn child/baby killers have to say to try to justify the murder. I'm also not going to debate abortion in this thread. I just hope the new Supreme Court nominee is put on the bench and gets rid of Roe Vs Wade as soon as possible. My point was pointing out your logical fallacy. I have no problem wearing a mask, but I support anyone that doesn't want to wear one and I also support any businesses requiring one to enter their premises. I don't however support country, state or local city mandates to wear them. It should be up to each business whether or not they will require you to wear a mask or not. I'm also not concerned if I get the Chinese Wuhan Coronavirus and think shutting down the country was a mistake.

 

[Lacius]

Yeah, I've heard it all, but I don't really care what fetus/unborn child/baby killers have to say to try to justify the murder. I'm also not going to debate abortion in this thread. I just hope the new Supreme Court nominee is put on the bench and gets rid of Roe Vs Wade as soon as possible. My point was pointing out your logical fallacy. I have no problem wearing a mask, but I support anyone that doesn't want to wear one and I also support any businesses requiring one to enter their premises. I don't however support country, state or local city mandates to wear them. It should be up to each business whether or not they will require you to wear a mask or not. I'm also not concerned if I get the Chinese Wuhan Coronavirus and think shutting down the country was a mistake.

If you are going to tell me I have committed a logical fallacy, please tell me where, and please tell me the name of the logical fallacy. Otherwise, you're just talking out of your ass.

Edit: It's also pretty absurd to call it the China Virus or the Wuhan Virus, when it's really the American Virus or the Trump Virus.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

Edit: It's also pretty absurd to call it the China Virus or the Wuhan Virus, when it's really the American Virus or the Trump Virus.

Where did it come from?

 

[Doran754]

If you are going to tell me I have committed a logical fallacy, please tell me where, and please tell me the name of the logical fallacy. Otherwise, you're just talking out of your ass.

Edit: It's also pretty absurd to call it the China Virus or the Wuhan Virus, when it's really the American Virus or the Trump Virus.

I lose all respect for your arguments when you make statements like this. I'm lying, i had no respect for your arguments to begin with.

But yes, the president of the United States is responsible for a virus that started in China, was allowed to spread throughout china unchecked, and the world, for months before the CCP finally admitted the problem and initiated a lockdown. There's loads of videos of Chinese doctors complaining back in January about the virus and it being kept under wraps.

Also the president is responsible for the state Italy got itself in too, way before any outbreaks occured in the USA. It's all his fault.

Honestly it makes me wonder how people like you manage to get dressed in the mornings, your arguments are always backwards, talking pure shit for the sake of it.

 

[Lacius]

Where did it come from?

Which country has 4,634 deaths, and which has 214,089 deaths? Which country has 85,434 total cases, and which has 7,592,336 total cases?

 

[UltraSUPRA]

Which country has 4,634 deaths, and which has 214,089 deaths? Which country has 85,434 total cases, and which has 7,592,336 total cases?

But where did it come from?

 

[Lacius]

I lose all respect for your arguments when you make statements like this. I'm lying, i had no respect for your arguments to begin with.

But yes, the president of the United States is responsible for a virus that started in China, was allowed to spread throughout china unchecked, and the world, for months before the CCP finally admitted the problem and initiated a lockdown. There's loads of videos of Chinese doctors complaining back in January about the virus and it being kept under wraps.

Also the president is responsible for the state Italy got itself in too, way before any outbreaks occured in the USA. It's all his fault.

Honestly it makes me wonder how people like you manage to get dressed in the mornings, your arguments are always backwards, talking pure shit for the sake of it.

There was no federal response to COVID-19. The President downplayed the virus, social distancing, mask-wearing, etc. for far too long. The COVID-19 response was an utter disaster. Because of all this, the USA is and shall always be the COVID-19 capital of the world.

 

[Doran754]

Which country has 4,634 deaths, and which has 214,089 deaths? Which country has 85,434 total cases, and which has 7,592,336 total cases?

Which country is an open democracy full of free press and which is a communist shithole filled with propaganda. You've no idea how many people caught it and died in China. None. And since when were viruses named after how many people died from it in a certain country, pure utter bollox from you as usual.

There was no federal response to COVID-19. The President downplayed the virus, social distancing, mask-wearing, etc. for far too long. The COVID-19 response was an utter disaster. Because of all thing, the USA is and shall always be the COVID-19 capital of the world.

Yes whether right or wrong he downplayed the virus, maybe because it has a 0.06% death rate, or maybe because he's ineffective at his job, or maybe he didn't want to scare the general population. Nobody knows why, they're all reasonable arguments to make. I suspect if he didn't downplay it and made a massive deal about it you'd be complaining about that too, because that's what you do.

 

[Lacius]

But where did it come from?

Does it matter?

 

[r0achtheunsavory]

Don't even bother replying to this leftist child named Lacius. Everyone and their mom knows everything in the media is a lie and the media is the #1 enemy of the American people. Everything he types is basically word for word propaganda straight from Brian Stelter's mouth. He's incapable of doing anything but parroting government lies and propaganda.

 

[Lacius]

Which country is an open democracy full of free press and which is a communist shithole filled with propaganda. You've no idea how many people caught it and died in China. None. And since when were viruses named after how many people died from it in a certain country, pure utter bollox from you as usual.

The Spanish Flu would like a word with you.