Hacking Discussion GPL 101 - Atmosphere and SX OS

[Khar00f]

Thank you for this thread. I just came across as it revitalized. I personally own SX Pro and very happy with it, but I still cringe when I read they stole code without at least crediting the original work, even more so after I accidentally came accros something quite interesting today, I figured I'd leave it here.


"...we had to release this due to another team stealing the code and claiming as their own work. They were even too lazy to change any of the patches to make it look like their own - they are 1:1 same as our original sources. Super lame. It seems some teams think this is the Wii or PlayStation scene and you can act like this. They don't even give credits to cOz for his SMC patcher - because they didn't even know that code was from him of course.

We don't want to get dragged down into bullshit scene politics - most of you won't care anyway, but a lot of guys work very hard on this stuff only to have it stolen with no effort and no credits is just sad. Anyway......"

Source: https://team-xecuter.com/forums/threads/82702-Team-Xecuter-Presents-RGH-2-0-*NOW-RELEASED*

It won't make me suddenly stop using their product, it does offer some benefits that I can only find on their product, I do use third party tools wherever possible to support the original author even if some ftres are included within SX OS for convenience. But should an alternative arise I'll be waiting...

 

[NeoSlyde]

Thank you for this thread. I just came across as it revitalized. I personally own SX Pro and very happy with it, but I still cringe when I read they stole code without at least crediting the original work, even more so after I accidentally came accros something quite interesting today, I figured I'd leave it here.


"...we had to release this due to another team stealing the code and claiming as their own work. They were even too lazy to change any of the patches to make it look like their own - they are 1:1 same as our original sources. Super lame. It seems some teams think this is the Wii or PlayStation scene and you can act like this. They don't even give credits to cOz for his SMC patcher - because they didn't even know that code was from him of course.

We don't want to get dragged down into bullshit scene politics - most of you won't care anyway, but a lot of guys work very hard on this stuff only to have it stolen with no effort and no credits is just sad. Anyway......"

Source: https://team-xecuter.com/forums/threads/82702-Team-Xecuter-Presents-RGH-2-0-*NOW-RELEASED*

It won't make me suddenly stop using their product, it does offer some benefits that I can only find on their product, I do use third party tools wherever possible to support the original author even if some ftres are included within SX OS for convenience. But should an alternative arise I'll be waiting...

Exept this isn’t a 1:1 copy.

 

[TheZander]

Thank you for this thread. I just came across as it revitalized. I personally own SX Pro and very happy with it, but I still cringe when I read they stole code without at least crediting the original work, even more so after I accidentally came accros something quite interesting today, I figured I'd leave it here.


"...we had to release this due to another team stealing the code and claiming as their own work. They were even too lazy to change any of the patches to make it look like their own - they are 1:1 same as our original sources. Super lame. It seems some teams think this is the Wii or PlayStation scene and you can act like this. They don't even give credits to cOz for his SMC patcher - because they didn't even know that code was from him of course.

We don't want to get dragged down into bullshit scene politics - most of you won't care anyway, but a lot of guys work very hard on this stuff only to have it stolen with no effort and no credits is just sad. Anyway......"

Source: https://team-xecuter.com/forums/threads/82702-Team-Xecuter-Presents-RGH-2-0-*NOW-RELEASED*

It won't make me suddenly stop using their product, it does offer some benefits that I can only find on their product, I do use third party tools wherever possible to support the original author even if some ftres are included within SX OS for convenience. But should an alternative arise I'll be waiting...

That's an awesome find.

Exept this isn’t a 1:1 copy.

Right down to the Easter eggs...

 

[NeoSlyde]

That's an awesome find.

Right down to the Easter eggs...

No just no

 

[TheZander]

No just no

Yeah dude, what are you talking about? It is copy and pasted without any attempt to hide it other than their weak encryption.

I'm going to glean that you hold that it's not 1:1 because they have other stuff they did by themselves however that doesn't change the fact that they copied code 1:1 without giving credit at all just like xecutors post about CoZ and some patcher. That thread, post makes all this so much better. I know it was in 2012 and they've gotten over it but it was even a member of their team. I don't know it's pretty funny.

 

[Khar00f]

Exept this isn’t a 1:1 copy.

LOL now you're fishing and I hope you meant this as a joke, anyways I didn't post this here to start a debate (if you are serious, I'd recommend you re-read the first post) also not because you're in denial it means it's not true, but I felt it relevant to the topic at hand coming from the same company.

 

[chrisrlink]

thing is nothing can be done by SciresM and Co no matter how much they wish they can take zero legal action (and TX knows it)

 

[bodefuceta]

I wonder what happens if TX gets arrested and police gets the source. I mean, shouldn't be too hard to track consider how much money they make.
Should they release it because of GPL or not release it because it's used for piracy?

 

[TheZander]

thing is nothing can be done by SciresM and Co no matter how much they wish they can take zero legal action (and TX knows it)

I don't think it's a matter of that at all. Personally i find it hard to care or feel bitter because i have no dog in the race.

Some people do think it's greasy that they are selling their software that's composed of open source material. But whatever it is what it is, the crazy thing is that with it being decrypted it still hasn't been ripped off whatever they have that's unique.

 

[Khar00f]

thing is nothing can be done by SciresM and Co no matter how much they wish they can take zero legal action (and TX knows it)

I think it's less about legal action and more about recognition. I understand they might not want to release source code as most of it is proprietary, but it really wouldn't hurt if they would just add thanks to SciresM for his open source contribution of Atmosphere which some modules are based off (as an example), I think it would help bring the communities together vs he stole, she stole debates all the time.

I wonder what happens if TX gets arrested and police gets the source. I mean, shouldn't be too hard to track consider how much money they make.
Should they release it because of GPL or not release it because it's used for piracy?

That would never happen, it becomes evidence and police property, so it'll never get released.

Also Hexkzy (sorry for destroying his name) posted on one of my forum posts why no one has done an XCI loader and the reason there probably will never be one, because it's all proprietary Nintendo code, so there's zero chance of any release of code if they get arrested. I've never heard of any group being arrested and they're Open Source code being released afterwards.


Also I think it's important to makenthe distinction that a small part of their software is based on open source but most of it is not such as:

XCI Loading (arguably their most valued ftre)
Cheat system
Emunand
HDD support

One can argue that these are the most requested ftres that no one is offering yet, there is some credit there to be given as well.

 

[Purple_Shyguy]

Why does anyone think people care about stolen code or whatever considering TXOS is used to PIRATE COPYRIGHTED SOFTWARE?

 

[chrisrlink]

and at the end of the day Atmosphere or any cfw regardless if it's switch ps3 or 4 is illegal anyways for circumventing security (which i feel is pure BS as long as piracy isn't commited it should be legal....but the facts are it's not currently)

 

[Khar00f]

Why does anyone think people care about stolen code or whatever considering TXOS is used to PIRATE COPYRIGHTED SOFTWARE?

I think it's of an "honor amongst thieves" type thing.

All of them are on the same team which is team hackers, yes they have various goals but they're not on the corporate team side, at least have respect amongst yourselves type thing.

But I've noticed over the years, drama is becoming a lot prominent although it wasn't as widespread I feel, teams used to respect each other even if competing although some examples come to mind like Xenium and TX but their beef with eachother was for different reasons. But the last few gens have been nothing but drama and teasing. I don't know, maybe it's just me or maybe money makes people hungry and turn them to savages

 

[Essasetic]

and at the end of the day Atmosphere or any cfw regardless if it's switch ps3 or 4 is illegal anyways for circumventing security (which i feel is pure BS as long as piracy isn't commited it should be legal....but the facts are it's not currently)

CFW isn't illegal lol.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Circumventing Security counts as reverse engineering iirc.

 

[Quantumcat]

CFW isn't illegal lol.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Circumventing Security counts as reverse engineering iirc.

Reverse engineering means working out how code works.

 

[Essasetic]

Reverse engineering means working out how code works.

Ah. But CFW isn't illegal otherwise Nintendo would be taking legal action against the developers.

 

[SomeKindOfUsername]

Why does anyone think people care about stolen code or whatever considering TXOS is used to PIRATE COPYRIGHTED SOFTWARE?

I can't speak for any of the Atmosphere devs, but if I had volunteered my free time writing CFW only to have somebody start profiting off of it without giving proper credit or providing their modified code like their supposed to then I'd be pretty annoyed. Combine that with how the community reacts to this happening and I'd stop working on the project altogether.

Consider being nicer to those who created the CFW instead of telling them to suck it up and keep working. They have no obligation to do this for you, and if this is how the scene responds I wouldn't blame them if nobody steps up to provide quality free CFW for future hardware.

 

[xxNathanxx]

Some people do think it's greasy that they are selling their software that's composed of open source material.

There's nothing wrong with selling free software ('open source' is meaningless if not harmful), especially not if you provide it in an easy to use package (unless that software happens to include a strange license which says no one is ever allowed to make money off of anything which includes all or parts of said software, but that doesn't happen). Sony is reportedly selling their PlayStation Classic console bundled with the PCSX emulator, there's nothing wrong with that so long as they follow the terms of whichever license(s) is/are attached to the PCSX source code.

There is a problem, legally and morally, if you sell it without following the license terms, which often specify that credit to the authors should be provided somewhere in the package, and often also require all modifications and additions to the source code to be published under the same license. Unfortunately, chrislink above is right, unless someone has sufficient finances for a good legal team to go after those like Team Xecuter, nothing will happen. It is possible in theory.

 

[TheZander]

There's nothing wrong with selling free software ('open source' is meaningless if not harmful), especially not if you provide it in an easy to use package (unless that software happens to include a strange license which says no one is ever allowed to make money off of anything which includes all or parts of said software, but that doesn't happen). Sony is reportedly selling their PlayStation Classic console bundled with the PCSX emulator, there's nothing wrong with that so long as they follow the terms of whichever license(s) is/are attached to the PCSX source code.

There is a problem, legally and morally, if you sell it without following the license terms, which often specify that credit to the authors should be provided somewhere in the package, and often also require all modifications and additions to the source code to be published under the same license. Unfortunately, chrislink above is right, unless someone has sufficient finances for a good legal team to go after those like Team Xecuter, nothing will happen. It is possible in theory.

You may have a point legally. But there is no doubt that the mass flack tx catches is from people who think that their few original components in sxos don't out weigh the free stuff.

Also the people who make this stuff get irritated that people use their interest or hobbies solely for stealing video games and not wishing to do something more creative that would be possible.


I don't really believe that any law enforcement any where would care about this particular aspect.

 

[xxNathanxx]

You may have a point legally. But there is no doubt that the mass flack tx catches is from people who think that their few original components in sxos don't out weigh the free stuff.

Also the people who make this stuff get irritated that people use their interest or hobbies solely for stealing video games and not wishing to do something more creative that would be possible.


I don't really believe that any law enforcement any where would care about this particular aspect.

It's only a matter of time before someone implements the same thing but better as free and free of charge software - the Switch is immensely popular, after all. All you need is patience!

'Stealing' or 'piracy' are also harmful terms when referring to file sharing, and they were invented by those who oppose it, which makes for an unfair starting point for any discussion on the topic.

Law enforcement does care, you just need some good lawyers to make the case. Big companies are fined and forced to comply with the licenses of code they unrightfully used fairly often. But yes, for a niche product like this, it would be a lot of trouble for little gain.