Do You Believe In God?

[JoostinOnline]

@JoostinOnline
My point is that the things you seemed to be suggesting (homosexuality as as 'sacrifice for the population', and homosexuality is not genetic) were disputed by the very article you cited.

Did you even read my post?

Lol that sounds like people just "take on for the team" and choose to be gay to help population.

I said your wording made it sound like those things were true, and that DNA alone does not determine your sexual orientation.

As for it not being advantageous - it doesn't need to be. It will only be selected out of the gene pool of it is detrimental, like any other trait.

You can't pass something along if you don't reproduce. Given that you started an argument based on a post you clearly didn't read, I'm questioning how much of the article you actually read.

WRT twins, actually resent evidence suggests that even monozygotic twins differ in their DNA. Cell division begins some time after the zygote has separated into two separate embryos and during this time the zygote can undergo hundreds of mutations meaning that so-called identical twins are not actually identical, just very similar.

Source?

 

[mashers]

Did you even read my post?

Yes.

I said your wording made it sound like those things were true, and that DNA alone does not determine your sexual orientation.

Perhaps I misunderstood. It happens you know.

You can't pass something along if you don't reproduce. Given that you started an argument based on a post you clearly didn't read, I'm questioning how much of the article you actually read.

Not everything which is genetic is inherited that way. There's the gay uncle theory, which suggests that genes for homosexuality are passed down recessively from heterosexual parents whose siblings have the gene on both alleles and thus express the trait. There's also mutation which doesn't require the gene to be inherited at all.

Source?

This is just one article I found on the matter:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...identical-twins-are-not-genetically-identical

 

[SnakeOil992]

Threads like this are always bound to cause drama.

 

[th3joker]

I voted no. Never believed. Always thought it was all bullshit and a scar tactic to get people to conform. Like the idea of heven or hell. How would a soul feel pain in hell without a physical body?

 

[dorayaki95]

nope,not a fan of god.

History has repeatedly shown time and time again that god is an imaginary tool used to control a bunch of blokes, in the name of religion

 

[Earth97]

There is more than one way a more stable and pattern-ful macro structure from something more fundamental.
If you look hard enough, the creator in other myth greatly surpass the current gods that's being worshipped, while the god of the three main religions have never demonstrated the capability beyond the likes of Zeus or Odin, who while powerful, is noted to be weaker than their parents, who came after the creator deity.

Didn't get completely what you mean to suggest with that. Could you explain in a better way?

 

[Yil]

Didn't get completely what you mean to suggest with that. Could you explain in a better way?

When you split an object into more fundamemtal units which we called particle, it can be reconstructed into an alternative form. The more it is splited the more chaotic its form can be, but at a certain level which things become more energitic, it can be further splited into lesser unit with identical structure as the previous bigger unit, but of smaller size, which allow more complicated structure with limited amount of material.
And creator deity in other myth easily own the Christian deity. Just search about the creation myth of Greek, Roman and Norse mythology and you will know how pathetic the christian god is.
Further you can find certain impact of mortal belief on gods, say in Greek myth.

 

[Lacius]

You can't pass something along if you don't reproduce.

Evolution is a lot more complicated than this. Genes that are beneficial with evolutionary selective pressures can simultaneously hinder an individual's ability to survive and/or reproduce. For example, biological predispositions to altruism, by definition, can cause self-sacrificing behavior. One might then argue that altruism can't have an evolutionary component since it makes it less likely for one to survive and reproduce, but these genes allow for the protection of other individuals with those same genes (e.g. daughters, nephews, siblings, etc.). The meerkat has evolved to scream when it sees a predator in order to alert the other meerkats of danger. The screaming meerkat has put itself at risk because a.) it has alerted the predator to its own presence, and b.) the escaping meerkats make it more likely that the screaming one will be the one targeted, but it has actually increased the survival and reproduction odds of other meerkats with those same genes. The family of humans who have genes that will predispose them to jumping into a river to save a child is more likely to do well than the family of humans without those genes. This is one of the harder aspects of evolution to understand, and it's complicated when we're dealing with social species.

In the case of homosexuality and evolution, it is likely that biological predispositions to high fertility and immune response on the part of the mother also lead to higher predispositions to homosexuality in her later-born male offspring. While a specific male offspring might not reproduce, those genes have increased her odds of survival and fertility, leading to other offspring that also have those genes. This is all ignoring that sexual fluidity in males could have led to a type of social bonding with other males that led to increased survival rates and wasn't mutually exclusive with reproduction with females.

The evolution or lack thereof of homosexuality is also irrelevant to whether or not it's natural and/or moral.

With regard to your points on identical twin studies and how homosexuality is not genetic, homosexuality can have a genetic predisposition without it being certain. A person's sexuality is the product of a combination of genetics, other biological and epigenetic factors, environment, and experiences. There is no gay gene that we're aware of, but it is likely we will later become aware of a "you have a 50% chance of being gay" set of genes. Most phenotypes are a combination of factors and aren't as simple as the Mendelian inheritance we learn about in middle school.

 

[Earth97]

When you split an object into more fundamemtal units which we called particle, it can be reconstructed into an alternative form. The more it is splited the more chaotic its form can be, but at a certain level which things become more energitic, it can be further splited into lesser unit with identical structure as the previous bigger unit, but of smaller size, which allow more complicated structure with limited amount of material.
And creator deity in other myth easily own the Christian deity. Just search about the creation myth of Greek, Roman and Norse mythology and you will know how pathetic the christian god is.
Further you can find certain impact of mortal belief on gods, say in Greek myth.

Still, I can't get what it has to do with my point: that creator deity could be derived from another deity and so on; thus, saying "there's a god who created everything" is just pointless. It's not only God to be pathetic, but the concept of god itself. Nothing is created and nothing is destroyed: all things evolve.

 

[Jack Daniels]

? IMO its logical enough, I dont believe it is natural and theres no scientific evidence or use for it that would make me think that sodomy is an evolutionary trait, needed for humanities survival.

at least 20 birds allah created are mostly gay, take the rose one standing on one leg for example.... a lot of animals practise sodomy, some bears do, snails don't even know what they are, some fish don't know either, sodomy and gay feelings are not something you can live without if you have feelings.. not if it's written, not if it's wrong... one out of 5 people are gay! they feel raped by normal sex! being gay is like having the wrong brains in your body...
like i said try for this year to not touch a girl, not kiss a girl... or if you allready got maried... don't hold hands for a year, don't kiss for a year... then you'll understand how silly it is to say such cruel words to 20% of your fam., to 20% of your friends, to 20% of your classmates... it's cruel to do so! you can't just do as if you are not gay! it's not an option if you feel that way.
what you say is: god created all humans, all birds, all monkeys, bud he hates 20% of his creation? really? what a glorious god you must have... how can you be proud of a god that is such cruel... if i make more than 3% failures of elecronic boards at my work a year i get fired! but your perfect god makes 20% and you still see him as a great god when he's such a crued?
sorry guy you completely lost me, you're most cruel towards at least 20% of the population... and i'm certain this is just the top of the iceberg you're not seeing because you don't feel gay you feel like you can judge them?
... it's your book that made it sound like wierd... wel it's not your book to be more accurate... first i know for sure of the jews wrote the thora and the book of profets... when over time there were made to many holes in that idea of religion there came Jesus, trying to correct the story so it would still fit and made sence... just Jesus didn't really follow the whole jewish base, he changed a minor few detailes to be able to say we got the wrong idea of god... he told us about god's changing to like us humans and is willing to talk about forgiveness... just Jesus took a too short corner with this forgiveness so it failed to make sence with the old books... the puzzle peices don't really fit when you read all the books of the bible... the same counts for islam it tried to restore the story of god, but still it looks to be based on the bible/juwish believe... yes i know this for sure since i've read all 4 books, though i read the bible most narrow.
i really hope that someday there come people who start to use thier own brain! really! i beg you...
i miself am straight, always was.. but what you say is cruel.
if you're gay you, it's possible to show on the brain before even been born... okay, not on a living brain though...
you don't learn to love, that's what's been givem pre birth... the hormone level of your mother plays a big role in it when you are growing...

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

at least 20 birds allah created are mostly gay, take the rose one standing on one leg for example.... a lot of animals practise sodomy, some bears do, snails don't even know what they are, some fish don't know either, sodomy and gay feelings are not something you can live without if you have feelings.. not if it's written, not if it's wrong... one out of 5 people are gay! they feel raped by normal sex! being gay is like having the wrong brains in your body...
like i said try for this year to not touch a girl, not kiss a girl... or if you allready got maried... don't hold hands for a year, don't kiss for a year... then you'll understand how silly it is to say such cruel words to 20% of your fam., to 20% of your friends, to 20% of your classmates... it's cruel to do so! you can't just do as if you are not gay! it's not an option if you feel that way.
what you say is: god created all humans, all birds, all monkeys, bud he hates 20% of his creation? really? what a glorious god you must have... how can you be proud of a god that is such cruel... if i make more than 3% failures of elecronic boards at my work a year i get fired! but your perfect god makes 20% and you still see him as a great god when he's such a crued?
sorry guy you completely lost me, you're most cruel towards at least 20% of the population... and i'm certain this is just the top of the iceberg you're not seeing because you don't feel gay you feel like you can judge them?
... it's your book that made it sound like wierd... wel it's not your book to be more accurate... first i know for sure of the jews wrote the thora and the book of profets... when over time there were made to many holes in that idea of religion there came Jesus, trying to correct the story so it would still fit and made sence... just Jesus didn't really follow the whole jewish base, he changed a minor few detailes to be able to say we got the wrong idea of god... he told us about god's changing to like us humans and is willing to talk about forgiveness... just Jesus took a too short corner with this forgiveness so it failed to make sence with the old books... the puzzle peices don't really fit when you read all the books of the bible... the same counts for islam it tried to restore the story of god, but still it looks to be based on the bible/juwish believe... yes i know this for sure since i've read all 4 books, though i read the bible most narrow.
i really hope that someday there come people who start to use thier own brain! really! i beg you...
i miself am straight, always was.. but what you say is cruel.
if you're gay you, it's possible to show on the brain before even been born... okay, not on a living brain though...
you don't learn to love, that's what's been givem pre birth... the hormone level of your mother plays a big role in it when you are growing...

Citation needed.

 

[Lacius]

? IMO its logical enough, I dont believe it is natural and theres no scientific evidence or use for it that would make me think that sodomy is an evolutionary trait, needed for humanities survival.

See my post above about the possible evolution of homosexuality. Regardless, many forms of sodomy are as much viable methods of social bonding as any other.

 

[Earth97]

at least 20 birds allah created are mostly gay, take the rose one standing on one leg for example.... a lot of animals practise sodomy, some bears do, snails don't even know what they are, some fish don't know either, sodomy and gay feelings are not something you can live without if you have feelings.. not if it's written, not if it's wrong... one out of 5 people are gay! they feel raped by normal sex! being gay is like having the wrong brains in your body...
like i said try for this year to not touch a girl, not kiss a girl... or if you allready got maried... don't hold hands for a year, don't kiss for a year... then you'll understand how silly it is to say such cruel words to 20% of your fam., to 20% of your friends, to 20% of your classmates... it's cruel to do so! you can't just do as if you are not gay! it's not an option if you feel that way.
what you say is: god created all humans, all birds, all monkeys, bud he hates 20% of his creation? really? what a glorious god you must have... how can you be proud of a god that is such cruel... if i make more than 3% failures of elecronic boards at my work a year i get fired! but your perfect god makes 20% and you still see him as a great god when he's such a crued?
sorry guy you completely lost me, you're most cruel towards at least 20% of the population... and i'm certain this is just the top of the iceberg you're not seeing because you don't feel gay you feel like you can judge them?
... it's your book that made it sound like wierd... wel it's not your book to be more accurate... first i know for sure of the jews wrote the thora and the book of profets... when over time there were made to many holes in that idea of religion there came Jesus, trying to correct the story so it would still fit and made sence... just Jesus didn't really follow the whole jewish base, he changed a minor few detailes to be able to say we got the wrong idea of god... he told us about god's changing to like us humans and is willing to talk about forgiveness... just Jesus took a too short corner with this forgiveness so it failed to make sence with the old books... the puzzle peices don't really fit when you read all the books of the bible... the same counts for islam it tried to restore the story of god, but still it looks to be based on the bible/juwish believe... yes i know this for sure since i've read all 4 books, though i read the bible most narrow.
i really hope that someday there come people who start to use thier own brain! really! i beg you...
i miself am straight, always was.. but what you say is cruel.
if you're gay you, it's possible to show on the brain before even been born... okay, not on a living brain though...
you don't learn to love, that's what's been givem pre birth... the hormone level of your mother plays a big role in it when you are growing...

Citation needed.

Do you really need citation after that? Such a huge contradiction and you still need to refer to your contradictions-laden book?

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Do you really need citation after that? Such a huge contradiction and you still need to refer to your contradictions-laden book?

He hasnt cited anything doesnt show where he gets his info from nor shows how the book has anything to do with animals just humanity.

 

[Jack Daniels]

He hasnt cited anything doesnt show where he gets his info from nor shows how the book has anything to do with animals just humanity.

it's about if it's natural to have gays... the guy i responded to says that being gay is un natural. if bird, monkeys and so on have gays among, why is it unnatural, if you dig deeper in to the idea, you find that no is made gay, they are born that way... knowing that the koran, hope it's spelled the same way as in dutch, says all people are built as a reflexion of thier god: Allah, that means all gay people about 20% of the total people are also in his reflexion made... what citation do you mean? i just respond to what's been said as being logic and free to this TheDarkGreninja?
really, 20% is unnatural? really it's okay to judge because a book tells you they're unnatural? what did i do wrong? i just tell what's in at least 3 religions as a contradiction... and this is not the one that made me change my idea of god.

 

[evandixon]

it's about if it's natural to have gays... the guy i responded to says that being gay is un natural. if bird, monkeys and so on have gays among, why is it unnatural

I'm not looking to get into this particular debate, but you're basically saying "if the animals are doing it, then it's ok".

 

[Earth97]

I'm not looking to get into this particular debate, but you're basically saying "if the animals are doing it, then it's ok".

Sexual appeal/attraction is part of those instincts we cannot control, that make us similar to animals.
Yeah, if animals do it, and our primordial instincts are inherited from animals, then it's ok. Why not?

 

[Lacius]

I'm not looking to get into this particular debate, but you're basically saying "if the animals are doing it, then it's ok".

No, he's saying that if animals are doing it in nature, then it's natural by definition. Whether or not something is natural has no bearing on whether or not it's moral. Rape is natural among some animals, but it's not moral. This computer isn't natural, but responding to you isn't immoral.

 

[Jack Daniels]

I'm not looking to get into this particular debate, but you're basically saying "if the animals are doing it, then it's ok".

no:

• if it's proven your gay before you are born it's natural
• if it's proven that 20% of the total population is gay it's natural
• if animals are also about 20% gay it's natural
• if a perfect god created all beings, with 20% being gay... then where the hell do you think it's normal to judge his 20%
• other way to say if this 20% is unnatural then god failed by 20% to create his perfect reflexion, that my friend is more than 6 times what i'm allowed to fail as a minor human technician at work!

so what did you miss?

No, he's saying that if animals are doing it in nature, then it's natural by definition. Whether or not something is natural has no bearing on whether or not it's moral. Rape is natural among some animals, but it's not moral. This computer isn't natural, but responding to you isn't immoral.

no, i wasn't taLking about moral when it comes to annimals...
the moral is in the 20% of creation the 3 reliogons sweep under the carped. it's immoral to say you better than another being if he hasn't done anything wrong to start with...
however if there's some one to blame for this, if you keep calling it wrong, then go do as you should! file a claim to the fabric it came from! that's what i said...

 

[evandixon]

Yeah, if animals do it, and our primordial instincts are inherited from animals, then it's ok. Why not?

While I'm hesitant to apply this to the current debate, keep in mind that animals steal and murder, while it's not OK for us to do it.

We're supposed to be better than animals, so take care to not look to them as an example when questioning morality.

(Again I'm not participating in this particular debate, so any replies to this post about applying my argument above to the current topic will be ignored, so save yourselves the time.)