Do You Believe In God?

[Jack Daniels]

No, he's saying that if animals are doing it in nature, then it's natural by definition. Whether or not something is natural has no bearing on whether or not it's moral. Rape is natural among some animals, but it's not moral. This computer isn't natural, but responding to you isn't immoral.

While I'm hesitant to apply this to the current debate, keep in mind that animals steal and murder, while it's not OK for us to do it.

We're supposed to be better than animals, so take care to not look to them as an example when questioning morality.

(Again I'm not participating in this particular debate, so any replies to this post about applying my argument above to the current topic will be ignored, so save yourselves the time.)

• you ever ate chicken you murderous bastard?
• you are an animal, nothing more than an advanced monkey
• and you are participating to my understanding so i take it you read the whole post of mine, not only the animal part.

 

[Earth97]

While I'm hesitant to apply this to the current debate, keep in mind that animals steal and murder, while it's not OK for us to do it.

We're supposed to be better than animals, so take care to not look to them as an example when questioning morality.

(Again I'm not participating in this particular debate, so any replies to this post about applying my argument above to the current topic will be ignored, so save yourselves the time.)

Actually, it's OK for us to do it. We've just choosen not to do it to live in a "safe" society (the so-called social contract: I don't kill you; you don't kill me).
However, being gay does not harm anyone. Why not letting our non-harmful instincts out for a better life?
Sodomy is absolutely natural and, in a world where soon there will be no room for anyone else, something to be promoted. I wonder how you can't get it.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

it's about if it's natural to have gays... the guy i responded to says that being gay is un natural. if bird, monkeys and so on have gays among, why is it unnatural, if you dig deeper in to the idea, you find that no is made gay, they are born that way... knowing that the koran, hope it's spelled the same way as in dutch, says all people are built as a reflexion of thier god: Allah, that means all gay people about 20% of the total people are also in his reflexion made... what citation do you mean? i just respond to what's been said as being logic and free to this TheDarkGreninja?
really, 20% is unnatural? really it's okay to judge because a book tells you they're unnatural? what did i do wrong? i just tell what's in at least 3 religions as a contradiction... and this is not the one that made me change my idea of god.

As in a peer reviewed study.

 

[mammastuffing]

...Christianity says reincarnation and evolution isn't real yet there is clear evidence of it...

I don't think there's evidence for reincarnation though...

 

[Jack Daniels]

As in a peer reviewed study.

as in 30 years study to religion! so mind your words and really read backwards, kind sir.
i was born a christian, been that for about 20 years without any doubts, tried other religions to find out if there's one that is really able to give me a moral god, to give me a superior god.. but after 10 years of search i found out that all religions fail to these standards they claim to have... i just took out the part of being gay to prove my point, i can give you about 30 reasons all 3 major religions fail the standard given you can't answer different when you know all facts around it... so you can argue with me if you like... but i warn you it won't get any prettier than it already is... and i know a lot of people will be offended by the words i will use...
i really don't think that will do you nor me any good.
but if you wanna try me, go try...
to give you a hint about how it goes read a few pages back in this thread what i already said...
you can choose history, creation, other religions, perfect god, the future, the differences between the 3 religions, commons between the 3 religions, morals of sex, morals of food, morals of killing...
on all these subjects all 3 religions fail, they all contradict themselves one way or another...
just defending at least 20% of the people to easy answers given bay a book that's at least 1400 years old:koran. or 2007 years old: bible, or at least 4000 years: thora and the profets about 2300 years if i'm not mistaken.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

as in 30 years study to religion! so mind your words and really read backwards, kind sir.
i was born a christian, been that for about 20 years without any doubts, tried other religions to find out if there's one that is really able to give me a moral god, to give me a superior god.. but after 10 years of search i found out that all religions fail to these standards they claim to have... i just took out the part of being gay to prove my point, i can give you about 30 reasons all 3 major religions fail the standard given you can't answer different when you know all facts around it... so you can argue with me if you like... but i warn you it won't get any prettier than it already is... and i know a lot of people will be offended by the words i will use...
i really don't think that will do you nor me any good.
but if you wanna try me, go try...
to give you a hint about how it goes read a few pages back in this thread what i already said...
you can choose history, creation, other religions, perfect god, the future, the differences between the 3 religions, commons between the 3 religions, morals of sex, morals of food, morals of killing...
on all these subjects all 3 religions fail, they all contradict themselves one way or another...
just defending at least 20% of the people to easy answers given bay a book that's at least 1400 years old:koran. or 2007 years old: bible, or at least 4000 years: thora and the profets about 2300 years if i'm not mistaken.

A peer reviewed study. For your claims on sodomy in nature.

 

[Jack Daniels]

A peer reviewed study. For your claims on sodomy in nature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

looking through all the citations, none of them were from a scientific journal of any sort. So why should I trust wikipedia?

 

[Lacius]

looking through all the citations, none of them were from a scientific journal of any sort. So why should I trust wikipedia?

I can see how you missed the scientific journals and otherwise peer-reviewed sources, given you only took literally two minutes to look through them.

 

[Jack Daniels]

looking through all the citations, none of them were from a scientific journal of any sort. So why should I trust wikipedia?

do these video's count for you as proof?

 

[mammastuffing]

Why does religion always have to go on hating the gays? Seriously, mind your own f-cking business.

tried other religions to find out if there's one that is really able to give me a moral god, to give me a superior god.. but after 10 years of search i found out that all religions fail to these standards they claim to have...

Why do you even need a god in that case? If you can try a few, find one that fits your moral values, then you obviously don't need anyone to tell you what's right and wrong...

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

thoese these video's count for you as proof?

their proof, just no scientific explanation.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I can see how you missed the scientific journals and otherwise peer-reviewed sources, given you only took literally two minutes to look through them.

a good 90% were the same source thats why.

 

[Jack Daniels]

Why does religion always have to go on hating the gays? Seriously, mind your own f-cking business.
Why do you even need a god in that case? If you can try a few, find one that fits your moral values, then you obviously don't need anyone to tell you what's right and wrong...

because it's not that easy to quit a religion since your parents see it as failing! so you try to find a way to balance in life...

their proof, just no scientific explanation.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


a good 90% were the same source thats why.

http://www.yalescientific.org/2012/03/do-animals-exhibit-homosexuality/
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/1500-animal-species-practice-homosexuality.aspx

 

[mashers]

their proof, just no scientific explanation.

How much explanation do you want? They're primates fucking primates of the same sex. It's quite straightforward really.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

How much explanation do you want? They're primates fucking primates of the same sex. It's quite straightforward really.

I mean, is it becuase of a mental issue or is it an actual evolutionary trait? Its like a male parrot only having a father, due to this they turn out gay.

 

[Jack Daniels]

their proof, just no scientific explanation.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


a good 90% were the same source thats why.

I mean, is it becuase of a mental issue or is it an actual evolutionary trait? Its like a male parrot only having a father, due to this they turn out gay.

did you have proper biology lessons?

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

did you have proper biology lessons?

yes. Whats the problem?

 

[Jack Daniels]

yes. Whats the problem?

since when do gay pairs get a biological child?

 

[Lacius]

a good 90% were the same source thats why.

Last time I checked, "all the citations" wasn't the same thing as "90% of the citations." If you looked at the other 10%, the bibliography above the references, or the actual source that's 90%, you would have found plenty of peer-reviewed sources and sources from scientific journals. It has been very much demonstrated that humans are far from the only species to engage in homosexual behavior. This isn't even controversial. Homosexual behavior is very much natural.

It should also be noted that it doesn't matter whether or not humans are the only species to engage in homosexual behavior. Whether or not it's natural and/or exhibited by other animal species is irrelevant to the morality of it. If one is going to argue that homosexuality is immoral or wrong, he or she needs to provide reasoning other than "it's unnatural."

I mean, is it becuase of a mental issue or is it an actual evolutionary trait? Its like a male parrot only having a father, due to this they turn out gay.

You can see my post above about some possibilities with regard to biological predispositions to homosexual behavior in humans. However, the mechanisms behind how a human or non-human animal becomes homosexual has no bearing on whether or not it's moral.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

since when do gay pairs get a biological child?

You obvously didnt understand my post. It has been studied that if a parrot/macaw who lost their mother, grows up with their father, they are likely to be gay.