Hacking Ways Nintendo Can Kill A9LH?

[Skyshadow101]

Is A9LH worth it? I'm thinking about just getting a 2DS and getting A9LH on that instead of risking to brick my New 3DS XL, I've taken too many risks by downgrading it twice, and installing many different things on it. But truly, is A9LH worth it?

 

[gnmmarechal]

Is A9LH worth it? I'm thinking about just getting a 2DS and getting A9LH on that instead of risking to brick my New 3DS XL, I've taken too many risks by downgrading it twice, and installing many different things on it. But truly, is A9LH worth it?

it is very worth it. fast boot times, a safety net against bricks, and it's install and forget, pretty much. No need to worry if you're updating your SysNAND or EmuNAND, you don't need to care if the console exits to SysNAND after closing Settings (if you're using a CFW SysNAND like most are).. etc. It's awesome.

 

[Queno138]

Let's say they release a FW 12, which didn't break anything, so devs says its safe to update.

However, what we didn't know is that FW12.0 added checks to see if CFW firm protection style is implemented.

So when they release FW12.1, they counteract the CFW firm protection by writing over it, and hence we unwittingly installed 12.1 into our sysnand.


So, they reverse the CFW code, and hide the anti-cfw it behind layers of layer of firmware updates, and finally to use it as a backdoor to install firmware updates over AL9Hax.

 

[gnmmarechal]

Let's say they release a FW 12, which didn't break anything, so devs says its safe to update.

However, what we didn't know is that FW12.0 added checks to see if CFW firm protection style is implemented.

So when they release FW12.1, they counteract the CFW firm protection by writing over it, and hence we unwittingly installed 12.1 into our sysnand.


So, they reverse the CFW code, and hide the anti-cfw it behind layers of layer of firmware updates, and finally to use it as a backdoor to install firmware updates over AL9Hax.

uh, they can't do it like that very well. Since A9LH runs before FIRM, and locks FIRM as read-only before FIRM runs.

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http://yifan.lu/2016/04/06/the-3ds-cryptosystem/

 

[Deleted User]

Really? I thought anyone with modifications on there system I want to say around 3.0 system version

Only wave of bricks I've heard of/read about involved installing a Korean system update on non-Korean Wiis, yet the Wiis received the notification to update because their regions had been changed.

To add to the actual discussion, though, they could probably find a way if they really wanted to. Either through the already mentioned file re-naming, stability update, or what have you. Honestly (without getting into the piracy discussion) I don't think it's worth their time, since the best way to do it seems to be a new hardware revision (but it'd be silly naming it the new new 3ds ).

 

[trinhno]

Only wave of bricks I've heard of/read about involved installing a Korean system update on non-Korean Wiis, yet the Wiis received the notification to update because their regions had been changed.

To add to the actual discussion, though, they could probably find a way if they really wanted to. Either through the already mentioned file re-naming, stability update, or what have you. Honestly (without getting into the piracy discussion) I don't think it's worth their time, since the best way to do it seems to be a new hardware revision (but it'd be silly naming it the new new 3ds ).

It just needs a boot ROM update, nothing outside has to be changed. People wouldn't even need to know like PSP motherboard revisions. Re-naming the file has no effect since the devs can just update A9LH to load a different file.

They can just rename your file to something else, and say that the Nintendo 3DS needs that arm9loaderhax.bin file as part of their "stability", it'd only affect A9LHaxxed consoles. Banning wouldn't affect many people. A large number of people doesn't give a fuck about eShop or online play. And freeShop, for example, uses Nintendo's servers to download the games, which does NOT require any authentication. They also wouldn't IP ban people, it could affect innocent people which happen to use the same hotspot (ex. a coffee shop, an airport, etc) as people who use this. Essentially, the 3DS' server security is flawed and banning people is... useless.

Well, yes. But some people still value online play and their ID. They'd be forced to use another ID, even a different console to play online so there's still something in it for Nintendo. Same situation happened to the X360.

Personally, I don't play online and keep my 3DS offline most of the time.

 

[gnmmarechal]

It just needs a boot ROM update, nothing outside has to be changed. People wouldn't even need to know like PSP motherboard revisions. Re-naming the file has no effect since the devs can just update A9LH to load a different file.



Well, yes. But some people still value online play and their ID. They'd be forced to use another ID, even a different console to play online so there's still something in it for Nintendo. Same situation happened to the X360.

Personally, I don't play online and keep my 3DS offline most of the time.

However, they could disrupt a9lh for a while and scare people away from it by bricking/removing a9lh on one or two consoles.

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[Skyshadow101]

it is very worth it. fast boot times, a safety net against bricks, and it's install and forget, pretty much. No need to worry if you're updating your SysNAND or EmuNAND, you don't need to care if the console exits to SysNAND after closing Settings (if you're using a CFW SysNAND like most are).. etc. It's awesome.

Ok, I'll get a 2DS, and if I remember correctly, about 99% of 2DS's are on 9.2 or below, right? Then I'll install A9LH. It's also a less of a risk on a 2DS because of it's cheap price, and it is able to run 2.0 firmware.

 

[The Catboy]

The only way they technically could, is if you were running a CFW without FIRM0/1 protection (or turned it off like a dumb ass.)
Otherwise, Nintendo can't with the current hardware. The previous update has proven that updating with FIRM0/1 does in fact protect it from Nintendo. Which means they either need to make new hardware (which they won't this late,) or physically go to your house and force it to be removed.

 

[gnmmarechal]

Ok, I'll get a 2DS, and if I remember correctly, about 99% of 2DS's are on 9.2 or below, right? Then I'll install A9LH. It's also a less of a risk on a 2DS because of it's cheap price, and it is able to run 2.0 firmware.

A large number of them uses low firmwares. I know for a fact that mine came with less than 9.2, and so did my brother's. Mine is the black/blue, and his was the OR transparent red. Not sure if it was less than 9.2, but before I downgraded it, it was on 9.4. And that console WAS updated when 9.4 was the current firmware.

I still even see the Tomodachi Life bundle (8.1, if I am not wrong) on shops.

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[gnmmarechal]

Heck, even the limited edition 20th anniversary 2DS' come with 10.2.

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[Skyshadow101]

A large number of them uses low firmwares. I know for a fact that mine came with less than 9.2, and so did my brother's. Mine is the black/blue, and his was the OR transparent red. Not sure if it was less than 9.2, but before I downgraded it, it was on 9.4. And that console WAS updated when 9.4 was the current firmware.

I still even see the Tomodachi Life bundle (8.1, if I am not wrong) on shops.

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Ok, cool! Seems easy enough anyway. Just get a 2DS, downgrade to 2.0, get OTP with OTPHelper, then modify Emunand with Luma, then flash it to Sysnand?

 

[gnmmarechal]

The only way they technically could, is if you were running a CFW without FIRM0/1 protection (or turned it off like a dumb ass.)
Otherwise, Nintendo can't with the current hardware. The previous update has proven that updating with FIRM0/1 does in fact protect it from Nintendo. Which means they either need to make new hardware (which they won't this late,) or physically go to your house and force it to be removed.

Is there anything (legally speaking) that would stop them from moving/deleting your arm9loaderhax.bin and replacing it with their own a9lh uninstaller? Heck, isn't SafeA9LHInstaller open source? They could base the uninstaller off that

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[gnmmarechal]

Ok, cool! Seems easy enough anyway. Just get a 2DS, downgrade to 2.0, get OTP with OTPHelper, then modify Emunand with Luma, then flash it to Sysnand?

Just follow Plailect's guide to the t. It's easy.

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[Skyshadow101]

Just follow Plailect's guide to the t. It's easy.

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Okay! Thanks for the help! It's settled then. I'm joining the A9LH Master Race!

 

[chaoskagami]

The only way they technically could, is if you were running a CFW without FIRM0/1 protection (or turned it off like a dumb ass.)
Otherwise, Nintendo can't with the current hardware. The previous update has proven that updating with FIRM0/1 does in fact protect it from Nintendo. Which means they either need to make new hardware (which they won't this late,) or physically go to your house and force it to be removed.

Or, they'd have to sneakily drop a malicious arm9loaderhax.bin bricker on your console, and I'm pretty sure they can't do that legally in MANY jurisdictions.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Firm is not as well locked, else Gateway's implementation of AL9H wouldn't have "update risks"

Gateway doesn't apply FIRM Protection, so no, their implementation is just bad.

 

[Queno138]

uh, they can't do it like that very well. Since A9LH runs before FIRM, and locks FIRM as read-only before FIRM runs.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

http://yifan.lu/2016/04/06/the-3ds-cryptosystem/

Firm is not as well locked, else Gateway's implementation of AL9H wouldn't have "update risks"

 

[The Catboy]

Is there anything (legally speaking) that would stop them from moving/deleting your arm9loaderhax.bin and replacing it with their own a9lh uninstaller? Heck, isn't SafeA9LHInstaller open source? They could base the uninstaller off that

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As far as I know, they can't do that. In theory, they could replace your arm9loaderhax.bin, but they would still be legally bond to ask if you agree to install the program. Ultimately, the legal system would be against them on this one.

 

[Temptress Cerise]

Firm is not as well locked, else Gateway's implementation of AL9H wouldn't have "update risks"

GW doesn't offer FIRM protection though... they couldn't steal it properly, even though it's open source.

 

[Queno138]

That being said,

They could always:

1. secretly modify your arm9loaderhax bin to have firm unprotected,
2. force a restart
3. proceed to update.

edit:
and package it nicely with a prompt

"Your 3DS needs to be restarted before this update, do you agree?"

Hit yes, and they work their evil XD