Do You Believe In God?

[Haloman800]

It was okay to molest children in Ancient Rome, as has been presented to you. You can keep ignoring the facts, or you can have some integrity and admit you are wrong. You're starting to bore me.

I never denied Romans molested children, try to avoid straw manning me if possible.

The fact Romans molested children doesn't mean molesting children is OK, this isn't a difficult concept.

Once again, BELIEF and SCIENCE are not necessarily in harmony with each other.

Nice off topic red herring. 2 fallacies in one post, good job

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So, knocking up a nine-year-old is okay as long as she is post-pubescent?

Says the guy who says molesting children is sometimes OK

 

[CraddaPoosta]

And some people still believe the earth is flat, so that proves the earth really isn't round, right? Because denial of a fact somehow invalidates it.. how?

Molesting children is objectively wrong, regardless of whether you think it is or not.

I was WAITING FOR THAT LAST PART! You finally decided to come out and make it very clear that you were only using child molestation as a tactic to try to get people to violently condemn it and in doing so, to agree with the rest of the pork in your barrel. I literally just laughed out loud.

You are getting angry and you're slipping even worse, now. Take my advice. Bow out with what grace you have left. You are embarrassing yourself.

 

[Haloman800]

I was WAITING FOR THAT LAST PART! You finally decided to come out and make it very clear that you were only using child molestation as a tactic to try to get people to violently condemn it and in doing so, to agree with the rest of the pork in your barrel. I literally just laughed out loud.

You are getting angry and you're slipping even worse, now. Take my advice. Bow out with what grace you have left. You are embarrassing yourself.

Not an argument

 

[CraddaPoosta]

You sad little guy, it's clearly obvious that no decent person could ever support children being harmed. You chose to prey on the concept of a true innocent being savagely harmed by a predator to shock people into agreeing with your flawed argument.

You keep disregarding the fact that the your wanna-be GOTCHA line is about if child molestation was EVER okay. History proves that it was considered okay in Ancient Rome. No one participating in this discussion would ever support children being harmed. You are only adding that 'punishment' for not agreeing with the rest of your shitty argument because if you don't, there is no leverage, and you know logic doesn't support you.

You are a sick individual to be preying on kids like this. Seriously. It is repulsive that you could even use that in an argument, just because you're losing.

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You are counting on people's natural inclination to protect the defenseless, and trying to use that momentum to force them to accept the rest of your argument that there is one true universal 'good' which has always been good, as the universal 'evil' has always been evil.

You're trying to say that child molestation was wrong, even if the Ancient Romans were cool with it. By comparing Ancient Roman morality to modern-day morality across the civilized world, we see that morality as it applies to society has evolved. This proves that morality is not universal, and neither are the definitions of good or evil.

For something to be universal, it must apply to everything, in every place, at every time. Static, unchanging, unevolving. If it is not a part of EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE, EVERYWHEN, it is not universal.

This statement is true without the suggestion that anyone who disagrees with me supports kids being hurt, you sick, sick individual. This is how you debate.

 

[Haloman800]

History proves that it was considered okay in Ancient Rome.

And history proves it was considered OK to think the earth was flat, therefore the earth isn't round?

No one participating in this discussion would ever support children being harmed.

So you agree it's always wrong to molest children, good job! Now tell me, what's your basis for this belief? Where does it exist outside human consciousness?

 

[ihaveahax]

I'd like to say just something about this.

you say it's never OK, and that's a perfectly valid opinion to hold. however you're comparing others opinions a long time ago to your personal standards, and that's just not going to work because those same people were following different standards and opinions (like, I don't know, their own?)

comparing standards of ages ago to standards of today doesn't work.

notice how I never stated my own opinion on the matter. none of this makes it seem like I think it's OK. at all. but that doesn't affect the opinions of a long time ago, who might have thought it was OK.

anyway I think this argument is fucking hilarious and I'm surprised it's still going. but seriously this thread is still a mistake.

 

[VinsCool]

Will you guys please stop this pointless argument throwing to each others?

 

[CraddaPoosta]

And history proves it was considered OK to think the earth was flat, therefore the earth isn't round?


So you agree it's always wrong to molest children, good job! Now tell me, what's your basis for this belief? Where does it exist outside human consciousness?

THINKING is belief. Do you understand? I can't dumb that down any more for you. Belief STILL doesn't necessarily align with reality. Belief STILL doesn't necessarily align with science. Science trumps belief.

I never said it was always wrong to molest children, because it wasn't. It was cool in Ancient Rome and in many other civilizations. You are simply trying to make this a personal thing. I am speaking objectively and neutrally, because my own moral code is irrelevant to the argument.

You keep trying to draw it in, though, so you can try to trap me into agreeing with you, or being accused of supporting kids being harmed.

All you're doing is, "If you don't say Merry Christmas, YOU HATE AMERICA!"

Get that shit out of here, kid.

 

[Haloman800]

I never said it was always wrong to molest children, because it wasn't. It was cool in Ancient Rome and in many other civilizations.

There may be a genuine lack of clarity here; I 100% agree that some cultures accept child molestation as legitimate, I'm not arguing against that, what I'm saying is, molesting children is still morally wrong, even if they think it's right. Does that make sense?

 

[VinsCool]

THINKING is belief. Do you understand? I can't dumb that down any more for you. Belief STILL doesn't necessarily align with reality. Belief STILL doesn't necessarily align with science. Science trumps belief.

I never said it was always wrong to molest children, because it wasn't. It was cool in Ancient Rome and in many other civilizations. You are simply trying to make this a personal thing. I am speaking objectively and neutrally, because my own moral code is irrelevant to the argument.

You keep trying to draw it in, though, so you can try to trap me into agreeing with you, or being accused of supporting kids being harmed.

All you're doing is, "If you don't say Merry Christmas, YOU HATE AMERICA!"

Get that shit out of here, kid.

There may be a genuine lack of clarity here; I 100% agree that some cultures accept child molestation as legitimate, I'm not arguing against that, what I'm saying is, molesting children is still morally wrong, even if they think it's right. Does that make sense?

Will you guys please stop this pointless argument throwing to each others?

 

[omegasoul6]

I'm an Agnostic Atheist, there's no way of knowing if there is a god, so until proven otherwise I don't believe in any deities.

 

[CraddaPoosta]

There may be a genuine lack of clarity here; I 100% agree that some cultures accept child molestation as legitimate, I'm not arguing against that, what I'm saying is, molesting children is still morally wrong, even if they think it's right. Does that make sense?

That's what I just said.

*facepalm

You cannot really be this obtuse. You saying that molesting children is morally wrong even if people in history were okay with it is JUST YOUR OPINION. Not a universal moral code. History PROVES it is not a universal moral code.

You're simply saying that you personally condemn child molestation, no matter what country it is, no matter what time period it is. Great. You're like most of the human population alive today. Want a cookie?

This STILL is nothing more than making it a statement of personal opinion, and that is not a proof of universal fact. For morality to exist outside of time, that would mean that there is one set standard of right and wrong, even if humans never existed. This simply isn't true. Good and evil only exist if humans do, and the definitions of the same evolve with each particular society. There IS no universal moral wickedness to any "sin". Not even the worst sin you can imagine.

 

[MionissNio]

Since you brought it up, the Qur'an has been changed/corrupted, http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Corruption_of_Previous_Scriptures

Not saying other books haven't been, but the Qur'an de

I'm not so certain wikiislam is a source if studying Islam and or any religion, it is written by an anti Islamic activist :Ali Sina hence I recommend you go to other sources like Islam Wikipedia page. We cannot say as being a Muslim Quran is corrupted but I can say the original message it tried to convey has been by militant Islamism or terrorism. Even to me some of many ahadith (saying and teachings of prophets) might even be corrupted, not certainly but just a little. As overtime during the first Islamic community hadith had to be memorized and the compilation was done years after the death of Holy Prophet(pbuh) hence it might have been possible some creative minds probably would have played around with them or forgotten them. Especially those which support 'Barbaric Jihad'.

Isn't this thread becoming prove to me existence of your God? Please everyone calm down and don't bash each others religion and or beliefs. Fine if some one is an atheist it is his own will and fine if someone is Christian. God bestowed us free will for a reason.

 

[cdoty]

And it was acceptable to believe the earth is flat, doesn't make it any less round

Still waiting for your explanation of when molesting children is OK.

Of course, I can't come up with one, but is that simply because I live in a civilization that views it as bad?

Were the Spartans immoral for having sex with the young boys they mentored? Would that be true if they thought it was strengthening the boy, and helping him survive (ie didn't know any better)?

What about the Greeks? What if they believed it helped the boy adjust to society?

Many groups of people don't have the same taboo on sex with a child. If it's universal, shouldn't it be taboo for all groups?

There are probably plenty of times the human race would have died out if there wasn't sex with a younger child.

A child is typically defined as someone pre pubescant

Nope, or else she couldn't have conceived.

That would put the age at a little over five years:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers

Again, if it's universal, there should be no need to change the definition of a child.

 

[CraddaPoosta]

I can't believe he's actually trying to tie humans being wrong about a flat Earth (scientific ignorance) to Ancient Rome's concept of moral right and wrong (social morality).

Morality is not a science. The two cannot even be compared.

 

[grossaffe]

I already have. Molesting children is always, objectively, absolutely, unequivocally wrong.

No you haven't. You've put forward statement that you have not proven.

 

[MionissNio]

Of course, I can't come up with one, but is that simply because I live in a civilization that views it as bad?

Were the Spartans immoral for having sex with the young boys they mentored? Would that be true if they thought it was strengthening the boy, and helping him survive (ie didn't know any better)?

What about the Greeks? What if they believed it helped the boy adjust to society?

Many groups of people don't have the same taboo on sex with a child. If it's universal, shouldn't it be taboo for all groups?

There are probably plenty of times the human race would have died out if there wasn't sex with a younger child.



That would put the age at a little over five years:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers

Again, if it's universal, there should be no need to change the definition of a child.

It depends on times and ages, I would never agree to molest a child even if she reaches age of puberty! Those who think it is right are morons! Yes I am saying to people of every community and every religion, stop abusing young girls! It was a thing of past!

 

[CraddaPoosta]

It depends on times and ages, I would never agree to molest a child even if she reaches age of puberty! Those who think it is right are morons! Yes I am saying to people of every community and every religion stop abusing young girls! It was a thing of past!

If it was a thing of the past, then morality has evolved, and the definitions of good and evil have changed over time.

Which means that they are not universal.

A girl past puberty, according to our esteemed debater here, isn't a girl anymore.

 

[Haloman800]

That's what I just said.

*facepalm

You cannot really be this obtuse. You saying that molesting children is morally wrong even if people in history were okay with it is JUST YOUR OPINION. Not a universal moral code. History PROVES it is not a universal moral code.

You're simply saying that you personally condemn child molestation, no matter what country it is, no matter what time period it is. Great. You're like most of the human population alive today. Want a cookie?

This STILL is nothing more than making it a statement of personal opinion, and that is not a proof of universal fact. For morality to exist outside of time, that would mean that there is one set standard of right and wrong, even if humans never existed. This simply isn't true. Good and evil only exist if humans do, and the definitions of the same evolve with each particular society. There IS no universal moral wickedness to any "sin". Not even the worst sin you can imagine.

You are equating opinion with fact. If what you are saying is correct, then the earth isn't round, because *gasp* since some people still believe it's flat. Is that what you're saying?

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No you haven't. You've put forward statement that you have not proven.

Are you saying you need me to explain to you why molesting children is wrong?

 

[RustInPeace]

How did this thread get into molestation talk?