Hacking [WIP] KARL3DS - Kernel access on N3DS via Ninjhax + Loadcode

[tony_2018]

thats a shame i was really hoping this would lead to a cia installer oh wells

than you didn't read the first page.

 

[shinyquagsire23]

thats a shame i was really hoping this would lead to a cia installer oh wells

Yeah, that's kinda what we don't want out of this. I will say, however, that specific upgrading/downgrading of firmwares may or may not be a thing with this, and the ARM9 will also open up utilities to the N3DS as well.

 

[Margen67]

Will the exploit break Gateway emunand rom loading?

 

[Oishikatta]

Yeah, that's kinda what we don't want out of this. I will say, however, that specific upgrading/downgrading of firmwares may or may not be a thing with this, and the ARM9 will also open up utilities to the N3DS as well.

We (as in everyone with a JP 8.1 N3DS) really do want a way to install the browser cia at least, so even a partial closed-source solution would be greatly appreciated.

 

[codychaosx]

Yeah, that's kinda what we don't want out of this. I will say, however, that specific upgrading/downgrading of firmwares may or may not be a thing with this, and the ARM9 will also open up utilities to the N3DS as well.

Theres just so many good non piracy things that come with installing cia files. game updates,homebrew without having to boot up CN everytime, and just things of a non swash buckling nature in general

 

[shinyquagsire23]

Theres just so many good non piracy things that come with installing cia files. game updates,homebrew without having to boot up CN everytime, and just things of a non swash buckling nature in general

Game updates we have plans for (maybe) if we can patch nim to allow us into the eshop, homebrew might be tricky though.

 

[cearp]

Game updates we have plans for (maybe) if we can patch nim to allow us into the eshop, homebrew might be tricky though.

wouldn't that just be full eshop access? or you mean specifically just eshop updates? (like the little eshop app that prompts you to update the game, not the full eshop program)

 

[NyaakoXD]

Seriously, I'm excited for this. There are lots of possibilities for homebrew if this gets finished. Although, what I really want to see is full speed emulation for GBA with a sleep-mode feature included because that would be amazing, imo.

 

[Xenon Hacks]

This is sad was hoping for big red menu and Emunand support

 

[Kylecito]

>closed source FIRM work

 

[pikanag]

stopped reading after anti pirates. i am the pirate king after all

 

[shinyquagsire23]

This is sad was hoping for big red menu and Emunand support

Well in all technicality I guess you could install some sort of .cia loader and have the NAND relocated somewhere else, but it would be useless for warez and unsigned stuff so not really much point to it other than installing update .cias I believe (because IIRC you can install that one .cia to downgrade the DS whitelist in sysNAND and it'll still work outside of Gateway mode, so logic would have it that we could install signed system .cias I think. No guarantees though.)

 

[Vappy]

That'd still let people pirate a few games, any of the 'legit' cias made from bundled games, that work on sysNAND.

But the piracy argument has been had to death a hundred times already. Warez is happening regardless of your decision, Sky3DS already has more of an N3DS market than this ever will, and soon(tm) Gateway will be an option for it too. Hope you're able to make something cool anyway.

There are lots of possibilities for homebrew if this gets finished.

Doesn't seem like there is tbh. If you wanted a free homebrew loader, someone could just polish up yifanlu's spidertools to get .3dsx loading working.

 

[cearp]

Well in all technicality I guess you could install some sort of .cia loader and have the NAND relocated somewhere else, but it would be useless for warez and unsigned stuff so not really much point to it other than installing update .cias I believe (because IIRC you can install that one .cia to downgrade the DS whitelist in sysNAND and it'll still work outside of Gateway mode, so logic would have it that we could install signed system .cias I think. No guarantees though.)

any cia built using all the content needed that is on cdn (so, yes system titles) are legit, so yes they will work
any legit cia would work once installed
the whitelist cia thing i shared, the cia is not properly signed, so it breaks the whitelist = good for what we wanted to do

i'm not sure how you could give us nice cia installing, because to install devmenu and run it, sigchecks for stuff would have to be patched, so, you would make your own cia installer? (that seems a waste of time) - anyway, i'm just thinking

 

[apoptygma]

This Smea-like attitude toward piracy slows the scene almost as much as Gateway-like teams pay-walling piracy. This seperation of goals and moral high-ground or outright greed is counter-productive toward the mutual goal of owning the device that was paid for. Does anyone in the mobile scene think they shouldn't create root-tool because someone could pirate an app? Or create root-tools and then charge for them and fill them with obfuscated code to prevent clones? Look how quickly the PSP and Wii scenes progressed because everyone just wanted the same thing - outright control over the whole system.

 

[Apache Thunder]

Well there goes the prospects of something useful.

The last thing I want to do is boot up a DRM/locked down environment to use any homebrew that could become proprietary on it and no longer have a proper CIA available. Not to mention this will potentially require the use of a second emunand partition.

What happens to all the CIAs I've already installed? Will they become useless in this? What about all the homebrew that's already been made in CIA? I'd have to setup a whole second system for this practically and that's what I wanted to avoid. I would happen to bet most here were expecting something similar to classic mode on Gateway/MT-Card, but with the ability to run things like SaveDataFiler, FTPony/FTBrony, CHMM for installing custom themes, etc.

If homebrew doesn't come out for the emunand that many people currently use or provides room for both in the same environment they may just leave the scene entirely.

You run the risk of alienating a lot of users with this. Don't let this become the next Devolution program.

Of coarse in the end this doesn't change much for me since I already own a Gateway. But DRM on something like this is the wrong approach to this. I'm trading one walled garden for another. Sorry, but no....Just no.

 

[gamesquest1]

any cia built using all the content needed that is on cdn (so, yes system titles) are legit, so yes they will work
any legit cia would work once installed
the whitelist cia thing i shared, the cia is not properly signed, so it breaks the whitelist = good for what we wanted to do

i'm not sure how you could give us nice cia installing, because to install devmenu and run it, sigchecks for stuff would have to be patched, so, you would make your own cia installer? (that seems a waste of time) - anyway, i'm just thinking

big red menu would probably work through .3dsx if there was access to NIM via the homebrew loader, that would allow legit cia installation, but afaik the only use would be to install the clean game bundles from limited edition consoles that are console independent and signed to work on any console, for DLC/games/title updates sig checks would need to be disabled to install them, so cia installation would be pretty much only useful for piracy of a few select titles


hmmm actually i guess if there was a way to just bypass ticket checking, but leave content signature checks in place that might work to allow title updates etc usable but not just converted to cia games, but then that would probably open up the console to any old eshop dump being loadable as long as its from eshop and not converted from a .3ds file....idk tbh, but once you look at enabling manual update installing, its skating very close to the fine line that would just be a rom loader

 

[Kracken]

I understand why you guys want to avoid enabling piracy and think you guys should stand by that, but in the end your work will be much more useful/important if you leave it open source. Not just for piracy. Of course there are a lot of people who want that and will work to achieve it, possible with your work as the base. If someone else wants to enable piracy, that isn't your problem. It is already easy to pirate on the 3DS and N3DS without this method. What you guys are working on could really help push the scene forward.

Either way, keep up the good work.

 

[shinyquagsire23]

This Smea-like attitude toward piracy slows the scene almost as much as Gatewayp-like teams pay-walling piracy. This seperation of goals and moral high-ground or outright greed is counter-productive toward the mutual goal of owning the device that was paid for. Does anyone in the mobile scene think they shouldn't create root-tool because someone could pirate an app? Or create root-tools and then charge for them and fill them with obfuscated code to prevent clones? Look how quickly the PSP and Wii scenes progressed because everyone just wanted the same thing - outright control over the whole system.

That's the goal of bootstrap itself, to give you absolute control over the device you own. If you want to code anything to run in either usermode, ARM11 kernel, or ARM9 kernel, with bootstrap you will have that complete freedom, entire control over the device you bought. The problem is, many people feel that having "freedom" on their devices means being able to install/pirate whatever the heck they feel on it, and have control over their device in that aspect. And in some respects, that can be a good freedom, especially in terms of ROM hacking and whatnot, which I completely understand. However, the one thing that we have to keep in mind and what seems to be the most controversial is that we want to keep this thing entirely anti-warez. That doesn't necessarily mean limitations placed on what you can and can't do, but we don't want to have any piracy involved.

I would happen to bet most here were expecting something similar to classic mode on Gateway/MT-Card, but with the ability to run things like SaveDataFiler, FTPony/FTBrony, CHMM for installing custom themes, etc.

If homebrew doesn't come out for the emunand that many people currently use or provides room for both in the same environment they may just leave the scene entirely.

You run the risk of alienating a lot of users with this. Don't let this become the next Devolution program.

Of coarse in the end this doesn't change much for me since I already own a Gateway. But DRM on something like this is the wrong approach to this. I'm trading one walled garden for another. Sorry, but no....Just no.

Yeah, and that seems to be the problem here unfortunately. A lot of awesome things rely on signature checks being removes, especially stuff with .cias. Our goal here is a simple, enhanced CFW for those who wish to have some things like emuNAND, region free, and all the little bits and enhancements that Gateway features with a price tag. However, that doesn't mean we are saying no to anything outside of that entirely. Implementing FTP, custom themes, and all that kind of stuff is entirely possible to have patched in all the while retaining signature checks in place. Saves could be relocated to the SD card just like the NAND can, even unencrypted if we really took the time to do it, FTP could be run as a service (maybe, no guarantees on that one), and custom themes are also a possibility. So it's not a situation of complete limitation, it would just have to be done differently I guess.

 

[gamesquest1]

i think many people got a bit carried away with the goal of this project, from the offset it even said the name stood for "Kernel Anti-piracy Region-free Loader"
see the goal if im understanding correctly is to simpy have a free, region free loader that works on the n3ds with improved hombrew by allowing kernel access, funny for so long people having been saying "we want kernel access so we can have better homebrew".....once this starts to happen those same people complain that its not a rom loader.....so basically all the "we need kernel access for homebrew" that many people where saying they wanted for homebrew, what they really meant was "we want rom loader, and who cares about homebrew"