Valve Delays Steam Controller to 2015

[icantfeelmyarms]

Is it because you hate precise controls?

No, because they look like they won't work well for a lot of games. Way to imply though :^)

The problem is, it is broken. While some genres are better with a gamepad, there are others that gamepads are traditionally not very well suited for, like most strategy games, and almost everyone prefers keyboard + mouse for shooters because of the accuracy boost. That's what they're trying to change - this is a controller that is supposed to work better for games that would traditionally be played with keyboard + mouse over a controller because it's meant for the PC platform.

Also, I hate that saying. By that logic there would never be any significant improvements ever.

I wouldn't say "broken." That's like saying the D-pad is broken because it doesn't allow you to control a million different directions. But, as you even said, gamepads are suited for different games and consoles. However, Steam provides many, many games that are available across many new and old consoles. They're trying to make it work for a bunch of games that worked for the control-scheme provided at the game's original launch, whether that's its original Steam launch or console launch. You also have to remember not every game works well on Steam with a keyboard and mouse. But you're absolutely right that it could work for certain games, but not necessarily every game. Look at motion controls... It's innovative, new (well, not so much anymore) and pretty cool. But the dead horse was beaten and people realized they weren't as great as hoped. Some games just didn't need motion controls, while some were completely made for them. It's the same for Steam: some were made for typical gamepads; some for keyboard/mouse.

I'm only worried Steam is biting off more than they can chew and will get themselves in a hole. I'm all for innovation, but I hope they seriously work this through completely if they hope to make money off all this, because I think it can be pretty cool if it works out well.

 

[Vipera]

Am I the only one thinking this controller will suck? One of the biggest flaws of the PSVita was how small the buttons were, just like this controller. Also no physical feedback from those touchpad "sticks".

 

[icantfeelmyarms]

Am I the only one thinking this controller will suck? One of the biggest flaws of the PSVita was how small the buttons were, just like this controller. Also no physical feedback from those touchpad "sticks".

I wouldn't say I feel they will suck, but I'm worried they won't be great at this rate. Not fond of touchpads at all though.

 

[BlackWizzard17]

The problem is, it is broken. While some genres are better with a gamepad, there are others that gamepads are traditionally not very well suited for, like most strategy games, and almost everyone prefers keyboard + mouse for shooters because of the accuracy boost. That's what they're trying to change - this is a controller that is supposed to work better for games that would traditionally be played with keyboard + mouse over a controller because it's meant for the PC platform.

Also, I hate that saying. By that logic there would never be any significant improvements ever.

Why does every say a mouse + keyboard is better for shooters. I'm not saying I'm against this statement but it's not like I jump into a match on ps3 and everyone is a complete dumb ass because there shooting everywhere else except me, if anything there better than Me and I'm pretty good at a FPS. If it suites people than its not broken it just not a common appeal to people who adjusted to pc control just as people get adjusted to console controls instead of pc controls.

 

[Veho]

No, because they look like they won't work well for a lot of games. Way to imply though :^)

Dual analogs don't work well for a lot of games either. Why do you feel they are inherently better than touchpads?

Why does every say a mouse + keyboard is better for shooters.

Because it has one fewer integrating element in the control chain, making responses faster and giving more precision.

Here's an interesting article on the topic of mouse VS analog stick in FPS games.

Here's a more scientific paper; it compares a trackball to an analog stick but it mentions the mouse as well.

Ideally, FPS games should be played with one analog stick for movement, and the mouse for aiming.

 

[Arras]

Why does every say a mouse + keyboard is better for shooters. I'm not saying I'm against this statement but it's not like I jump into a match on ps3 and everyone is a complete dumb ass because there shooting everywhere else except me, if anything there better than Me and I'm pretty good at a FPS. If it suites people than its not broken it just not a common appeal to people who adjusted to pc control just as people get adjusted to console controls instead of pc controls.

No, a stick is simply not as accurate/fast and will never be as a mouse. The Kid Icarus/Metroid Prime Hunters touchscreen controls are actually a lot closer to what an FPS with a mouse is like.

Am I the only one thinking this controller will suck? One of the biggest flaws of the PSVita was how small the buttons were, just like this controller. Also no physical feedback from those touchpad "sticks".

They will have a special mechanism for haptic feedback that apparently works pretty well. From what I've heard it feels like you're rolling two trackballs around instead of moving your fingers on an unresponsive surface.

 

[Dork]

Damn, so they are cutting the capacitive touchscreen and original button layout for good then. Now it just looks like a typical gamepad but with haptic touchpads instead of joysticks, which may or may not be better.

 

[BlackWizzard17]

No, a stick is simply not as accurate/fast and will never be as a mouse. The Kid Icarus/Metroid Prime Hunters touchscreen controls are actually a lot closer to what an FPS with a mouse is like.

But a stick does suit users like me and thousands of other players, I don't like touch controls they get in the way and your not as quick and precise when your not using something like a stylus. A stick is not a mouse but it does not mean it can't be worked with it gets the job done for other things to.

 

[icantfeelmyarms]

Dual analogs don't work well for a lot of games either. Why do you feel they are inherently better than touchpads?

Again with the implications. Cool the snarkiness mate. I'm not saying they're better at all. As I've mentioned (while not in response to your first reply), different controls work for different games. Sticks don't work for every game ever made, just as touchpads won't work for every game ever made. What about a fighter game? I guarantee you touchpads aren't popular for fighting games, and from playing fighting games using iPad controls, they feel pretty bad and wonky to use. I also highly, highly doubt touchpads will be a good idea for any FPS game. They'll be fine for more casual-control based games like turn-based RPGs and strategy games. But overall, I would actually say sticks work a lot better than touchpads thus far, and if they're going for the iPad approach to touchpads, God help them. The iDevice touchpads work pretty poorly in less-casual games, that's for certain. I know it's a different thing than having a giant screen (or small screen for iPhone users) to touch around on opposed to a controller with touchpads, but it's still a similar concept.

 

[KingVamp]

Just imagine if we didn't change from the past controllers because someone deem them the best.

I feel they should have kept the capacitive touchscreen even with this layout.

 

[Veho]

Again with the implications. Cool the snarkiness mate. I'm not saying they're better at all.

You said they should have used analog sticks instead of touchpads. Unless you feel analog sticks are better, why would you say that?
I'm not implying, I am inferring

from playing fighting games using iPad controls, they feel pretty bad and wonky to use.

All hands-on reviews of the controller say it's entirely unlike any previous touch control.

I also highly, highly doubt touchpads will be a good idea for any FPS game.

They are a very good idea for aiming, if used as an actual touchpad and not an analog stick analogue (like the iDevices do). And hands-on reviews say the haptic feedback gives a fairly good approximation of pressing physical buttons, (although it's not as good as a rocking D-pad because it doesn't auto-center you), so movement shouldn't be a problem either. Aiming is the bigger concern here, and the touchpad has it covered.

 

[icantfeelmyarms]

You said they should have used analog sticks instead of touchpads. Unless you feel analog sticks are better, why would you say that?
I'm not implying, I am inferring


All hands-on reviews of the controller say it's entirely unlike any previous touch control.


They are a very good idea for aiming, if used as an actual touchpad and not an analog stick analogue (like the iDevices do). And hands-on reviews say the haptic feedback gives a fairly good approximation of pressing physical buttons, (although it's not as good as a rocking D-pad because it doesn't auto-center you), so movement shouldn't be a problem either. Aiming is the bigger concern here, and the touchpad has it covered.

Well then, for everybody's sake, I hope they succeed. Can't make everybody happy, but can't hold back innovation.

But, to keep dwelling on this, I said, "God I hope those 'analogues' don't catch on... Those look horrendous to use. The controller looks fine IMO, if it only used normal sticks."

Yes, I did say this as a personal preference. I don't like how the touchpads look and from looking at how they are, don't seem too good. Having never had any other experience with touch controls apart from the iPad, I can only assume. Regardless, you still implied I said sticks are inheritably better, when I had only gave my preference for controls. But now you know my reasoning if you've read what I wrote, that it all really depends on what you're playing.

Regardless, I'd argue sticks are the best bet for consoles because of the wide range of games. Luckily on PC, you can use whatever you can plug in and figure out how to configure with a game.

 

[FAST6191]

Yes, I did say this as a personal preference. I don't like how the touchpads look and from looking at how they are, don't seem too good. Having never had any other experience with touch controls apart from the iPad, I can only assume. Regardless, you still implied I said sticks are inheritably better, when I had only gave my preference for controls. But now you know my reasoning if you've read what I wrote, that it all really depends on what you're playing.

Regardless, I'd argue sticks are the best bet for consoles because of the wide range of games. Luckily on PC, you can use whatever you can plug in and figure out how to configure with a game.

At this point I am reminded of the "how controllers appear to non gaming types" type images, or alternatively how a modern controller might look to someone with NES era sensibilities.

 

[vayanui8]

IMO saying "the Xbox controller is perfect and if it doesn't work well on that it won't work well on anything" is kinda ignorant. The way these mini-touchpads work will allow you way more precise control for any game that involves the cursor or things like FPS games.

I'm not saying there is absolutely no demand for it, Im just saying that its very small. The controller will never manage to be as effective as the keyboard and mouse for this, so even if this controller is more precise it is still outclassed in that regard, and for other games it could be extremely awkward. There's just no reason to make an adjustment because there are still better control methods for everything

 

[Kalker3]

I'm not saying there is absolutely no demand for it, Im just saying that its very small. The controller will never manage to be as effective as the keyboard and mouse for this, so even if this controller is more precise it is still outclassed in that regard, and for other games it could be extremely awkward. There's just no reason to make an adjustment because there are still better control methods for everything

This controller along with the Steamboxes are supposed to "invade" the living rooms, where sitting on a couch while using K+M isn't always an option, and god knows how awful playing certain games with a X360 gamepad is.

This is supposed to be a "middle ground" approach.
I am quite excited for both this and an out-of beta SteamOS.

At this point I am reminded of the "how controllers appear to non gaming types" type images, or alternatively how a modern controller might look to someone with NES era sensibilities.

Where did you find this monstrosity?

 

[BloodShed]

No, because they look like they won't work well for a lot of games.

Right?

The Steam controller looks like it'd be great for FPS games. In other words, the games that Valve makes. It might even work well for RTS or Point-N-Click Adventures. What about platform or fighting games? Their current version still doesn't implement a D-pad. I figured the complaints about the Xbox 360 gamepad proved there is still a demand for a good D-pad.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

ITT Blah blah blah "THIS IS DIFFERENT THEREFORE BAD " and "LOL VALVE TIME LOL NEVER GONNA GET RELEASED LOL".

If Valve wants to continue testing their controllers and continue to take user-feedback to help improve them, more power to them. I'd rather they get this shit right then release some pile of junk that doesn't work at all.

 

[matpower]

2015 real time or valve time?

They can't use Valve time in physicals stuff, right?
tbh I don't see a reason to use Steam Machines right now, since the average Joe can plug his computer in his TV and call a day and now with the delay, it looks less promising. :|

 

[Kalker3]

They can't use Valve time in physicals stuff, right?
tbh I don't see a reason to use Steam Machines right now, since the average Joe can plug his computer in his TV and call a day and now with the delay, it looks less promising. :|

You'd be surprised at the number of people that use the "consoles are just plug 'n play, nothing to do but turn on the system and connect it to the TV" argument or those who say that "if you want to play on PC, you need to buy a monitor HUR HURHUR"...

 

[matpower]

You'd be surprised at the number of people that use the "consoles are just plug 'n play, nothing to do but turn on the system and connect it to the TV" argument or those who say that "if you want to play on PC, you need to buy a monitor HUR HURHUR"...

Yeah, it is kinda sad. :/
tbh I wonder if Steam Machines will suffer from the "outdated" issue(A 2014 top-tier PC will be meh in 2/3 years if you want to run everything in max quality), since there are many variations of it(It kinda feels like MSX/CDi )