Hacking Phoenix Wright Dual Destinies ROM dumped?

[Foxi4]

But every sold copy shows Capcom the support for the said genre. They will not bring it here if they don't think it's profitable. Buying the games tells Capcom it is profitable, simple as that. It all comes down to money after all. I'm not trying to be a "hero of justice" preventing people to pirate the game. But there is a huge difference in pirating a mainstream game like Call of Duty and pirating a niche game like Ace Attorney, just because the numbers are so much larger. Every sale counts bigtime for the Ace Attorney series, while Call of Duty still earns millions because of it's reputation and widespread appeal.

There's no difference at all between pirating a big name game or a smaller one - pirating is pirating and it's always illegal. The obvious problem anti-piracy folk seems to always overlook is that a pirate is unlikely to buy a video game because, hello, he or she is a pirate and buying games isn't something he or she does - that's what makes him or her a pirate. There isn't such a thing as a "lost sale", you can't lose a sale that hasn't been made and a "potential sale" is vague and far removed from reality. I can't sue mommy dearest for losing a potential $20 of allowance, similarly a potential sale is not an actual sale and its lack is not an actual loss. On top of that, downloads of a given title, legal or not, show interest in a given series or genre, so the whole "interest" point is entirely moot.

 

[Black-Ice]

On top of that, downloads of a given title, legal or not, show interest in a given series or genre, so the whole "interest" point is entirely moot.

I'm pretty sure there no way to monitor how many times your work has been pirated.
Otherwise the system wouldn't work very well.
The whole world could have it pirated but if only 50 people buy the actual game, its not coming back imo.

 

[Foxi4]

I'm pretty sure there no way to monitor how many times your work has been pirated.
Otherwise the system wouldn't work very well.
The whole world could have it pirated but if only 50 people buy the actual game, its not coming back imo.

There's whole third-party associations which monitor exactly that and create estimates of downloads, for example the Japanese CESA. Again, piracy on consoles is not a wide-spread problem, it never was. Pirates are on the very margin of the userbase.

 

[Black-Ice]

Today Black Ice learned

There's whole third-party associations which monitor exactly that and create estimates of downloads,

Still, Pirating PW is like building an Asda/Walmart next to a small independent shop.
You're gonna screw up the family business and they'll move back to japan.
Lack of sales compared to Japan was confirmed as a reason why AAI 2 didnt make it and AA5 was DL only.
Pirating it will mean less sales, like proper. And that adds to the snowball of it not coming back
I'm worried coz i love the series and pirating AA5 feels like prodding the lion

 

[Arizato]

There's no difference at all between pirating a big name game or a smaller one - pirating is pirating and it's always illegal. The obvious problem anti-piracy folk seems to always overlook is that a pirate is unlikely to buy a video game because, hello, he or she is a pirate and buying games isn't something he or she does - that's what makes him or her a pirate. There isn't such a thing as a "lost sale", you can't lose a sale that hasn't been made and a "potential sale" is vague and far removed from reality. I can't sue mommy dearest for losing a potential $20 of allowance, similarly a potential sale is not an actual sale and its lack is not an actual loss. On top of that, downloads of a given title, legal or not, show interest in a given series or genre, so the whole "interest" point is entirely moot.

Yes, you are right about piracy being piracy no matter what game you are pirating and I get the point you are making. I have friends that go all out on piracy and I am by no means a saint myself. I have changed myself in that aspect though. I can't finish games I pirate anymore, so I just buy them. But enough about me. I have several friends who have bought the previous games in this series and are really invested in the story. However for this one they are waiting it out until it becomes "free" for some weird reason, especially considering that they've bought the previous more expensive games in the series. Every entry in the series have been incredibly hard to come by after pre-orders, at least here in Sweden. It's just a shame that they stop supporting a series like that when they clearly enjoyed them before, even when they bought every title that was coming out in the AA-series.

I just have a hard time believing that every man or woman that pirates this game weren't ready to lay down the money in the first place, but they think it becomes a much better deal when it's suddenly free. Those are the kinds of situations I talk about. Not piracy in general.

 

[Foxi4]

Still, Pirating PW is like building an Asda/Walmart next to a small independent shop.
You're gonna screw up the family business and they'll move back to japan.
Lack of sales compared to Japan was confirmed as a reason why AAI 2 didnt make it and AA5 was DL only.
Pirating it will mean less sales, like proper. And that adds to the snowball of it not coming back
I'm worried coz i love the series and pirating AA5 feels like prodding the lion

Yes, you are right about piracy being piracy no matter what game you are pirating and I get the point you are making. I have friends that go all out on piracy and I am by no means a saint myself. I have changed myself in that aspect though. I can't finish games I pirate anymore, so I just buy them. But enough about me. I have several friends who have bought the previous games in this series and are really invested in the story. However for this one they are waiting it out until it becomes "free" for some weird reason, especially considering that they've bought the previous more expensive games in the series. Every entry in the series have been incredibly hard to come by after pre-orders, at least here in Sweden. It's just a shame that they stop supporting a series like that when they clearly enjoyed them before, even when they bought every title that was coming out in the AA-series.

I just have a hard time believing that every man or woman that pirates this game weren't ready to lay down the money in the first place, but they think it becomes a much better deal when it's suddenly free. Those are the kinds of situations I talk about. Not piracy in general.

Here's an idea - maybe, just maybe, western audiences in general are not interested in games like Ace Attorney? Maybe they're niche games for a niche audience and niche, low-cost releases on the eShop are the way to go? Maybe the games don't sell all that well as expensive physical cartridges because people don't know them or don't like them?

A low-cost eShop release is a good idea to get people interested in your franchise - they can pick it up and try it for a couple of bucks and maybe, just maybe, they'll become fans. If not, no harm done - they paid a fraction of what they'd pay for a cartridge. When the franchise is in full swing, you start thinking about physical releases.

And no, Ace Attorney isn't going to miraculously disappear from the western market because it's compatible with flash carts, just like it didn't disappear after each and every installment earlier was pirated. Again, the number of people using flash carts is far too small to actually cause a substantial dent.

 

[gamesquest1]

Yes, you are right about piracy being piracy no matter what game you are pirating and I get the point you are making. I have friends that go all out on piracy and I am by no means a saint myself. I have changed myself in that aspect though. I can't finish games I pirate anymore, so I just buy them. But enough about me. I have several friends who have bought the previous games in this series and are really invested in the story. However for this one they are waiting it out until it becomes "free" for some weird reason, especially considering that they've bought the previous more expensive games in the series. Every entry in the series have been incredibly hard to come by after pre-orders, at least here in Sweden. It's just a shame that they stop supporting a series like that when they clearly enjoyed them before, even when they bought every title that was coming out in the AA-series.

I just have a hard time believing that every man or woman that pirates this game weren't ready to lay down the money in the first place, but they think it becomes a much better deal when it's suddenly free. Those are the kinds of situations I talk about. Not piracy in general.

well considering before it was dumped, there was no prospect of it possibly being pirateable, surely at this point most people who would pay for the game has probably paid at this point, and considering flash card's don't work above 4.x its not like suddenly everyone will just pirate it, its a limited audience for the pirates and with most games the largest majority of sales will be in the first few months, so at this point capcom will of received their stats and figures of whether it has enough interest to produce the game internationally

 

[daicon]

Those of us in touch with reality know that the game being gateway incompatible had no noticeable impact on sales at all. The people who will put this game on their gateway never would have bought it in the first place. I would have bought it if it was a physical release, but I'm not going to spend what little money I have on a digital copy from a company as anti-consumerist as Nintendo knowing whenever they decide to drop 3DS store support I won't be able to download my title anymore.

 

[Arizato]

Here's an idea - maybe, just maybe, western audiences in general are not interested in games like Ace Attorney? Maybe they're niche games for a niche audience and niche, low-cost releases on the eShop are the way to go? Maybe the games don't sell all that well as expensive physical cartridges because people don't know them or don't like them?

A low-cost eShop release is a good idea to get people interested in your franchise - they can pick it up and try it for a couple of bucks and maybe, just maybe, they'll become fans. If not, no harm done - they paid a fraction of what they'd pay for a cartridge. When the franchise is in full swing, you start thinking about physical releases.

And no, Ace Attorney isn't going to miraculously disappear from the western market because it's compatible with flash carts, just like it didn't disappear after each and every installment earlier was pirated. Again, the number of people using flash carts is far too small to actually cause a substantial dent.

well considering before it was dumped, there was no prospect of it possibly being pirateable, surely at this point most people who would pay for the game has probably paid at this point, and considering flash card's don't work above 4.x its not like suddenly everyone will just pirate it, its a limited audience for the pirates and with most games the largest majority of sales will be in the first few months, so at this point capcom will of received their stats and figures of whether it has enough interest to produce the game internationally

Sure, I can see your points. But they don't really justify piracy, like very few instances do. I'm just saying that this game is worth the very low cost it has in the first place. Wololo actually has a very interesting article about it: http://wololo.net/2014/03/16/piracy-just-doesnt-make-sense-anymore/

Those of us in touch with reality know that the game being gateway incompatible had no noticeable impact on sales at all. The people who will put this game on their gateway never would have bought it in the first place. I would have bought it if it was a physical release, but I'm not going to spend what little money I have on a digital copy from a company as anti-consumerist as Nintendo knowing whenever they decide to drop 3DS store support I won't be able to download my title anymore.

Now, I've never really been a hardcore Nintendo fan. But this logic could be applied to any company that's using digital means to sell games (Steam, GOG, PSN, Xbox LIVE, etc). Nintendo are shutting down online services for the Wii and the DS, but they aren't shutting down the Shop for the Wii and it's almost 8 years old now.

Even with your logic does this really give you the right to play the game for free? Just food for thought.


Anyway. You guys have made up your mind and I am not going to waste your time anymore. I think I've made my point by now and you are on the other side of the fence. I respect that. Have fun playing the game should you decide to put it on your Gateway!

 

[Subtle Demise]

Even with your logic does this really give you the right to play the game for free? Just food for thought.

If he buys the game from Nintendo's shop and then goes ahead and downloads the "pirated" copy from some torrent tracker to protect his purchase in the event that the eShop goes down (because we all know nothing lasts forever), then morally, yes he does have a right. Legally it is a different story; but legal doesn't always mean right or moral.

 

[Arizato]

If he buys the game from Nintendo's shop and then goes ahead and downloads the "pirated" copy from some torrent tracker to protect his purchase in the event that the eShop goes down (because we all know nothing lasts forever), then morally, yes he does have a right. Legally it is a different story; but legal doesn't always mean right or moral.

Sure, most people would probably consider that download as a backup, even though it's considered illegal. I agree with you there. But we're not talking about those instances. We are talking pure piracy here.

 

[Subtle Demise]

Sure, most people would probably consider that download as a backup, even though it's considered illegal. I agree with you there. But we're not talking about those instances. We are talking pure piracy here.

I know, I just wanted to make the point.

 

[Purple_Shyguy]

400+ posts of "PLs dont pirate gud gaem plz"

 

[gamesquest1]

Sure, most people would probably consider that download as a backup, even though it's considered illegal. I agree with you there. But we're not talking about those instances. We are talking pure piracy here.

maybe he plans to but a japanese physical copy and play the english version............yeah right, but still, it sounds like his mind was made up from the offset, and sometimes it can be more of a action to proove a point, I dislike digital only game releases, i dont want to be forced to in some way encourage the future digital only game releases that would entail if everyone just accepted it and bought only digital copies, i own plenty of 3ds games and have even bought some i played before owning a copy, yeah naughty naughty, but if i have learnt anything is that untill you play a game you dont know if its actually worth the price they are asking, Bethesda for example makes some fantastic looking games.....but then dont appear to care enough about their customers to properly debug them before release

im not saying piracy is the righteous path, just that if
A) there was never any intent to buy the game
B) playing the game "could" lead to a future sale of that game or even of another title in the series that can't be pirated
C)Showcasing the game to others who couldn't/wouldn't pirate it and giving positive reviews and recommendations

in this situation its a win-win for the dev's they didn't "loose a sale" no matter how much they would like to argue otherwise, i know personally that a lot of games people pirate they wouldn't buy in the first place, most of the time the people pirating would have absolutely no way of affording all the games they pirate, so suggesting they WOULD of bought them is just absurd

best they can hope for is that their game is well made enough for pirates to give positive feedback to other who are in a better position to buy the games they recommend, personally if 2 people suggested games to me, a pirate who has played pretty much every game going and someone who bought a single game, its more likely the pirate would know which games are actual good as they have first hand knowledge of most of them

 

[Foxi4]

Again, I want to point out an important issue that I've touched upon on the first page which explains why Scenes were established and why they exist to this day and are especially important now, in the age of digital distribution. Dumps are made to preserve software first and foremost - 20 years from now, little Timmy will not be able to play Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies on this Sontendosoft 4PSBox because nobody cared enough to create a working dump of the software and the eShop section for the 3DS will be long since closed. Even games that are preserved on cartridges are sometimes incredibly rare or hard to come by and discs have very limited life spans - software has to be transferred to other storage devices so that it can be accessed later, years down the line, and there's no better time than the present to do this.

It's up to the individual to pirate or not to pirate - piracy will always be out there, and I'm not saying that it isn't a problem, but it's not a pressing one. Look at PC gaming - it's blooming more than ever, and we live in a day and age when you don't even need to burn a disc to play a pirated PC game - you just mount an image in Daemon Tools and you're set. Again, it's unlikely that a pirate would buy the game anyways, and if anything, there are users out there who's make or break argument for owning a system is whether it's hacked or not. I'm not one to use anecdotal evidence, but for example, Nintendo wouldn't get money out of my pocket if the DS didn't have flash carts and the Wii didn't have softmods. Fast forward a couple years later and I have two 3DS'es and I actually buy games for them - who would've thought.

My point is that much like in the case of the music industry, the video game industry will not crumble because people copy software - people have always copied software and if your software doesn't sell then there's something wrong with it or it's poorly marketed, that's what it all runs down to. Little Jimmy doesn't know how to mod his 3DS and his mommy Martha doesn't know how to softmod his Wii - such matters are reserved to the nerd neiche which frequents forums like this, the modding community is a spec of dust in comparison to the total userbase which just wants to conveniently play video games.

 

[lambstone]

Now, just so we get back on track here to sum up the previous discussion relating to eshop dumps.

Previously it was "undumpable" due to some pseudo two stage verification. Now it seems that one of the verification checks have been disabled hence the dumps exist. BUT to get this running, it would require the a loader.dat file to disable firmware based signature checking which allows for eshop dumps to run. Now here's the kicker, in doing so, disabling signature checks opens the door for rom loading w/o flash carts. This means it will not be released by gateway or mt card or any flashcart companies as it is detrimental to their businesses.


Here's a though, the 3DS exploits and hacks are supposedly documented on 3dbrew. Could someone with sufficient knowledge make use of the information there to create a loader? Or is there some private information floating around which can only be used to disable signature checks. I mean if the all the required information was available publicly, it would be a matter of learning (albeit tedious) how to code for the 3ds.

 

[master801]

Again, I want to point out an important issue that I've touched upon on the first page which explains why Scenes were established and why they exist to this day and are especially important now, in the age of digital distribution. Dumps are made to preserve software first and foremost - 20 years from now, little Timmy will not be able to play Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies on this Sontendosoft 4PSBox because nobody cared enough to create a working dump on the software and the eShop section for the 3DS will be long since closed. Even games that are preserved on cartridges are sometimes incredibly rare or hard to come by and discs have very limited life spans - software has to be transferred to other storage devices so that it can be accessed later, years down the line, and there's no better time than the present to do this.

It's up to the individual to pirate or not to pirate - piracy will always be out there, and I'm not saying that it isn't a problem, but it's not a pressing one. Look at PC gaming - it's blooming more than ever, and we live in a day and age when you don't even need to burn a disc to play a pirated PC game - you just mount an image in Daemon Tools and you're set. Again, it's unlikely that a pirate would buy the game anyways, and if anything, there are users out there who's make or break argument for owning a system is whether it's hacked or not. I'm not one to use anecdotal evidence, but for example, Nintendo wouldn't get money out of my pocket if the DS didn't have flash carts and the Wii didn't have softmods. Fast forward a couple years later and I have two 3DS'es and I actually buy games for them - who would've thought.

My point is that much like in the case of the music industry, the video game industry will not crumble because people copy software - people have always copied software and if your software doesn't sell then there's something wrong with it or it's poorly marketed, that's what it all runs down to. Little Jimmy doesn't know how to mod his 3DS and his mommy Martha doesn't know how to softmod his Wii - such matters are reserved to the nerd neiche which frequents forums like this, the modding community is a spec of dust in comparison to the total userbase which just wants to conveniently play video games.

I don't even have a working dvd drive on my computer. I'll still buy the games if they're are cheap. But yes, I will agree with you, piracy does preserve history, as I can tell by reading your statement.

 

[Retrievil]

Thank you for contributing to the real discussion in this thread.

That idea was batted around when Gateway was announced. The idea was Gateway would release, people would get their hands on the code and reverse engineer the hack. Then all you would need to do is borrow a 4.5 and under compatible NDS card to do the initial install. After that you could load the games from the internal SD card bypassing Gateway altogether. Hasn't happened yet, maybe someone can explain what is stopping that from happening.

The PW and HarmoKnight dumps may not ever be playable. Groups will dump anything if they can, doesn't matter if you have a way to play it or not .... yet.

 

[daicon]

Now, I've never really been a hardcore Nintendo fan. But this logic could be applied to any company that's using digital means to sell games (Steam, GOG, PSN, Xbox LIVE, etc). Nintendo are shutting down online services for the Wii and the DS, but they aren't shutting down the Shop for the Wii and it's almost 8 years old now.

Even with your logic does this really give you the right to play the game for free? Just food for thought.

Well, I never said I was pirating it, just that I'd buy it physical (I own all the DS Ace Attorneys that came out in US). I also own over a thousand games on Steam, but that company earned my trust enough for me to feel I know my purchases are permanent.

For example, PS4 and Xbone don't play PSN or XBLA games from the last generation. How much longer till the Wii store shuts down? Will Wiiware titles work on whatever system comes after WiiU? I highly doubt it.. I've dealt with these companies long enough to know how they operate and to them our digital purchases are a temporary license.

None of that legally justifies anything, but I will say that if I was going to donwload Dual Destinies and play it for free my conscience would be clear: I've supposed the series, I'm not apart of the 'problem'(which doesn't exist), and Capcom is a horrible company.

 

[BORTZ]

This has gone on long enough.