Gaming Nintendo Confirms Wii U Has Flopped, Slashes Sales Forecast By ~70%

[Foxi4]

You upsetting the Nintendo fans again, Foxi4?

I'm sorry...

 

[gamefan5]

I'm sorry...

Nah, keep doing it. It' entertaining because you always keep your cool.

 

[Foxi4]

Nah, keep doing it. It' entertaining because you always keep your cool.

I try to be a nice guy, I don't have a habit of insulting people because they have different opinions (even if sometimes I really crave to). Back to the subject matter though, folks! The Wii U is flopping *mumble mumble Smash Bros. and Mario Kart will totally save it or something*.

 

[trumpet-205]

I try to be a nice guy, I don't have a habit of insulting people because they have different opinions (even if sometimes I really crave to). Back to the subject matter though, folks! Wii U flopping *mumble mumble Smash Bros. and Mario Kart will totally save it or something*.

Vgchartz just confirmed that PS4 has surpassed Wii U lifetime sales.
http://www.vgchartz.com/article/251527/playstation-4-outsells-the-wii-u-worldwide/

You brought a good point Foxi4, today consumer wants more than just playing game. Both X1 and PS4 expands beyond gaming while Nintendo doesn't offer anything new to the table.

 

[Foxi4]

Vgchartz just confirmed that PS4 has surpassed Wii U lifetime sales.
http://www.vgchartz.com/article/251527/playstation-4-outsells-the-wii-u-worldwide/

You brought a good point Foxi4, today consumer wants more than just playing game. Both X1 and PS4 expands beyond gaming while Nintendo doesn't offer anything new to the table.

VGChartz isn't exactly a reliable source of information, but I don't have any issues in believing that the PS4 has surpassed Wii U's lifetime sales - it was bent to happen sooner or later.

 

[blaisedinsd]

I agree with what you're saying here - the gamepad is a huge price inflator and the only things that can entice customers at this stage of the game are affordable bundles with good value, which is exactly what Microsoft is doing with their XBox One as well. Many people are going to jump on the Titanfall package. It's a psychological thing - selling a system that's ready to play straight out of the box. The situation looks even better now, after the UK price cut - I hope that other regions will follow suit to match the price of the PlayStation 4. Perhaps a Kinect-less bundle would be a good idea, but for now Microsoft is investing heavily into the peripheral, much like Nintendo is into the gamepad.

I think historically both the Kinect 2 and the Gamepad will go down as huge failures for this gens mythical and fictional "console war".

Artificially requiring the purchase of an expensive add on because you have some vision of it as some core integrated feature will be a blunder never to be repeated again.

I think Nintendo will move away from gimmics all together. The DS and Wii were huge based on their gimmics. The 3DS has done well inspite of it's gimmic and it's games are generally more traditional button games (Zelda wasn't touch screen controlled this time!) and they came out with the 2DS partly to get out from under the burden of the gimmic. I think/hope they will do the same type of thing with the Wii U gamepad gimmic.

I think we see a cycle happening here. MS got cocky and has screwed up with Xbone. Nintendo fell in love with gimmics with Wii U and 3DS. Sony went a bit crazy on the PS3 and has realized their mistakes and copied the best features of 360 with PS4.

360 mainly succeeded based on online multi-player and it's similarity to PC architecture.

Sony has copied this premium online model and architecture and learned not to over price and over engineer their HW.

Nintendo I think will learn not rely on gimmics, has moved toward and accounts and online system. If they copy the competition and don't use a gimmic and get a headstart and integrate their popular handhelds with their home consoles I think they could pull off a console war victory next gen.

I think Sony has this locked up with PS4 assuming the games start to come soon and the Ps3 and 360 install bases don't linger too long and hold PS4 back.

Xbone's only hope at this point is to become price competitive quickly -DROP KINECT 2.0! IMMEDIATELY- and try to win based on exclusives because Sony has copied their online and PC architecture advantages.

 

[osirisjem]

Wii U vs. Wii sales:

Both consoles launched in November, the Wii in November 2006 and the Wii U in November 2012.
The Wii U has sold 5,644,779 units in its first 15 months on sale, while the Wii had sold 22,196,944 units.

[source]

 

[Foxi4]

I think historically both the Kinect 2 and the Gamepad will go down as huge failures for this gens mythical and fictional "console war". Artificially requiring the purchase of an expensive add on because you have some vision of it as some core integrated feature will be a blunder never to be repeated again.

This much is true. Both companies can plainly see that their peripherals aren't exactly taking people by storm, so they might as well start treating them as accessories instead of core elements of the system. I can't help but wonder if a cheaper Wii U without the gamepad would sell any better.

I think Nintendo will move away from gimmics all together. The DS and Wii were huge based on their gimmics. The 3DS has done well inspite of it's gimmic and it's games are generally more traditional button games (Zelda wasn't touch screen controlled this time!) and they came out with the 2DS partly to get out from under the burden of the gimmic. I think/hope they will do the same type of thing with the Wii U gamepad gimmic.

I'm not entirely sure if they will - I think Nintendo relies on the potential of including gimmicks in their hardware, it's just that they now had a cold shower and realized that not all gimmicks are successful - now they just have to go through the phase of realizing why.

I think we see a cycle happening here. MS got cocky and has screwed up with Xbone. Nintendo fell in love with gimmics with Wii U and 3DS. Sony went a bit crazy on the PS3 and has realized their mistakes and copied the best features of 360 with PS4.

I'm in two minds about that statement. They definitely went crazy with the Cell and they've put too much stock into believing that developers will go through the trouble of coding for an architecture that offers a lot of firepower but is very difficult to handle, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that they've copied anything from the XBox 360 - the PS4 is very much like a PS3, except it's based on more friendly hardware.

360 mainly succeeded based on online multi-player and it's similarity to PC architecture.

The 360 is in no way similar to a PC - in fact, its CPU is heavily based on the CELL's PPE. It also uses unified memory - something you don't get to see on PC. It's as remote from PC as you could imagine, really.

Sony has copied this premium online model and architecture and learned not to over price and over engineer their HW.

Again, not something I'm willing to agree with. Online services are simply the industry standard these days and XBox Live isn't the first one around either - rather it's the first console-based one that was met with great success.

Nintendo I think will learn not rely on gimmics, has moved toward and accounts and online system. If they copy the competition and don't use a gimmic and get a headstart and integrate their popular handhelds with their home consoles I think they could pull off a console war victory next gen.

I don't think they should fully abandon their gimmicks - that's what sets them apart from the competition and that's what keeps their audience interested, as narrow as it may be. What they need to do is make the package appeal to customers from beyond their audience - get out of their comfort zone and offer something extra. I have no doubt that if the Wii U had comparable processing power to the PS4 and the XBox One as well as comparable developer support and it would be competitively priced, it would see great success as well. People were initially very excited with what the Wii U could do, at least prior to its release - it was after the PS4 and the XBox One were presented to the world when the hype started dying down. Both the gamers and the press noticed the gap between those systems and interest died away.

I think Sony has this locked up with PS4 assuming the games start to come soon and the Ps3 and 360 install bases don't linger too long and hold PS4 back.

I'm sure that the games will start rolling out pretty soon and there's already a number of must-have titles coming soon - the PS4 situation is well under control and we'll see more and more people upgrading to the new system.

Xbone's only hope at this point is to become price competitive quickly -DROP KINECT 2.0! IMMEDIATELY- and try to win based on exclusives because Sony has copied their online and PC architecture advantages.

Dropping the Kinect 2.0 and creating a Core XBox One package would be a good idea, but for now Microsoft tries to price the system competitively instead and bundle it with games, which is also a good strategy. They too have the situation under control - their system is selling well, just not as well as it could sell.

 

[blaisedinsd]

• Handheld consoles and home consoles are apples and oranges appealing to different target audiences, even if those audiences overlap to some extent. Nintendo's handhelds never had any problems with market penetration, sales or software support. Their popularity is unparallel to anything else on the market, so there's not a whole lot of reasons to criticize them. Their home consoles however are on a downward spiral in terms of popularity, which goes to show that there's room for improvement here and that Nintendo should re-examine their priorities in that particular sector of their business
• The N64 and the Gamecube were not popular systems in their respective generations because they failed to meet the par - the N64 had no disc drive and was hard to develop games for, making in undesirable for third party developers, on top of being an expensive system to begin with. The Gamecube was released at the peak of PS2's popularity, it used a storage medium vastly inferior to a full-sized DVD and had no multimedia capabilities and all of this contributed to its downfall. The moral of the story here is that Nintendo should pay more attention to the industry standards and consumer trends prior to releasing home consoles - they have to meet the customer's expectations in terms of features, meet the industry's expectations in terms of hardware and development and give the customer their top game in terms of their own software support - this is the recipe for success. When developing the Wii U, Nintendo ignored the industry standard, continued to use their own obsolete version of the PPC7xx architecture and once again refrained from including functionality which is expected from a home console at this stage of the game - BluRay compatibility and a hard drive, among other things
• Equating criticism of a video game system to personal insult is the very definition of personal bias. Liking a certain system, having fond feelings towards a given brand or enjoying particular games on that system in no way changes the real-life situation of the company responsible it or the situation of that company's current system - it's all nostalgia, and looking at the world through nostalgia glasses distorts reality

1. This is mostly semantics. I am not trying to say Nintendo's home consoles haven't done some things that held down their popularity. However I don't think it really matters too much because I feel you are fixated on the mythical and fictional console war. There is only so much room at the table and if all the big 3 were doing exactly the same thing it's not like all 3 will win the console war. For instance you may criticize some things about the gamecube, but didn't Xbox (the original) not make those "mistakes". So why why was the original xbox a poor system/flop/POS or whatever you want to call it? I think it is mostly because Sony had a huge headstart where they got so far ahead it didn't really matter what Nintendo or MS did..PS2 was a juggernaut and everyone pretty much already had one by the time the competition launched. I consider the gamecube to be the last Nintendo system that tried to go head to head as a mainstream console and I don't think small discs, limited online, or no DVD playback are the reasons it didn't do well (Heck PS2 originally had no online gaming). Gimmics are why they Wii did well intially and then being cheaper and more family friendly continued it's hot streak.

2. I addressed some of this in point 1, but didn't Xbox meet the par? Why was it on the same level as the Gamecube? I don't recall if it had DVD playback or not but are you seriously going to argue that's why it didn't do better?

3. Semantics again I think. I feel you have been the one bashing systems as failures and flops based one console war rhetoric. Then when someone says hey I liked the N64 I had some great times with it and all my friends had it or it had some great games then you would respond with some condescending remark about how wrong and foolish this Nintendo fan is to say such things because they lost the console war. Remember I am not even an N64 or Gamecube fan, I wasn't taking your stuff personal, if anything I felt I was simply sticking up for the little guy that you were bashing

If you consider 360 as the console war victor I would give these reasons:
1. It's head start
2. It's lower price compared to PS3
3. The explosion of popularity of online gaming and it premium model allowing the best implementation of that service
4. Easier to develop for (whether it's PC like or not by your definition I still always am hearing this and it's cited as a reason why despite being technically not as powerful as PS3 most multi-plats actually look slightly better on 360).

The Wii was a monster and a smashing success but it was an alternative type of console which in itself was a trailblazing maneuver. It had more HW sales but I think less SW sales than 360 and it definitely had less quality third party support. I however don't have time to play every game, don't like to play online that much, don't really like FPS or much care whether a game is mature or not and greatly enjoyed the games I did play on the Wii. It had enough games for me and I loved having all the VC and Gamecube BC and then hacking it making it in to probably my favorite console of all time. I think Wii U on a personal level has potential to top it because I freaking love the Gamepad and those Wii games followed up in HD is a much bigger leap graphically form Wii to Wii U than what I have seen so far with PS3 to PS4.

PS3 while a disaster for Sony Financially was still a solid system for gamers and did as well as it did based on it's brand (Ps1 and PS2 before it) and it had the what is generally considered to be the better exclusives than 360. I often hear this stated as it was the single player game console and the 360 was the online multi-plat console (and wii was for babies....wah!)

 

[McHaggis]

2. I addressed some of this in point 1, but didn't Xbox meet the par? Why was it on the same level as the Gamecube? I don't recall if it had DVD playback or not but are you seriously going to argue that's why it didn't do better?

I don't think there's ever a single reason for a piece of hardware failing at market penetration. I do think that the original XBox never had a chance, though. As a newcomer to the market, you don't have much consumer loyalty and you're up against two industry giants that have a large following. Couple that with a launch that is 1 year later than the first-to-market console of that generation in most parts of the world, and almost 2 years later in one of the biggest gaming markets in the world (Japan), and you're already fighting an uphill battle. The PS2, of course, was riding on the back of the PS1. The Gamecube was also fighting an uphill battle being late to market, Nintendo should have cut the N64 loose earlier and we might have seen a different generation (and different subsequent generations as a result).

Nintendo went down a different path with the Wii. They made casual gaming in the home mainstream, an impressive feat. In doing this, though, they pushed core gamers away and therein lies the main problem. Casual gamers have little brand loyalty, they're like sheep that go with whatever's popular, a trend Nintendo clearly recognised and didn't feel confident enough that they would keep the casual gaming market. When the Wii U came around, they decided they were too far afield and tried to get back to targeting the main demographic, but the problem is that they've lost their way. They don't really know what core gamers want, and they're obviously deluded if they think that they can solve a problem by throwing more Mario at it.

I don't think power comes into it too much. The PS2 was graphically weaker than both the GameCube and the XBox, the PSP and Vita outclass the DS and 3DS respectively. The online offerings of the PSP and Vita are also far superior to the DS and 3DS. I don't think following industry standards is the problem, either. Yes, it can turn developers off, but large companies get away with it for years in other markets. I genuinely think the problem was that Nintendo pushed away so much of the main home console demographic last generation that people didn't have much confidence in the Wii U to start with. Foxi4 might remember people being excited about it, but I remember news regarding share price plummeting and much scepticism from the press.

Personally, I think the GamePad was a great idea. But I agree with Foxi, they should ditch it as a bundled accessory and have it as a standalone purchase. They probably won't sell as many GamePads, but they might sell more consoles. The Wii U has a lot to offer if developers would just take advantage of it. MiiVerse is an original and well executed idea, and has been very cleverly integrated into some games, but Nintendo need to make further advancements in their online offerings.

tl;dr the Wii U is proof that Nintendo have lost touch with the majority of today's gamers. They need to make some drastic changes and come out of their comfort zone. As much as I like Iwata, I don't think he's the right man to lead Nintendo into the next generation.

 

[Foxi4]

Although I don't agree with everything McHaggis says, I agree with most of it and share the belief that the success of the Wii is paradoxically what's dragging the Wii U down. The Wii established its position as a casual system with little to offer to the core gamer and by doing so it succeded as a low-cost gaming system, but the audience it catered to moved on to smartphones and isn't there anymore to buy seconds in the form of the Wii U. The core gamer isn't willing to board the Wii U train partially because of the Wii's established reputation.

 

[RodrigoDavy]

I'm not going to call a system that practically "didn't exist" outside of the U.S. "successful" - it wasn't successful at all, it merely wasn't "terrible".

It existed in Brazil... You know, the USA and Europe are not the only markets in the world you eurocentric fascist*!

EDIT: *Or communist since I remember you are from Poland

 

[blaisedinsd]

Although I don't agree with everything McHaggis says, I agree with most of it and share the belief that the success of the Wii is paradoxically what's dragging the Wii U down. The Wii established its position as a casual system with little to offer to the core gamer and by doing so it succeded as a low-cost gaming system, but the audience it catered to moved on to smartphones and isn't there anymore to buy seconds in the form of the Wii U. The core gamer isn't willing to board the Wii U train partially because of the Wii's established reputation.

I still think low-cost gaming system that the Wii was successful with is still something Wii U has potential to grab on to. Obviously they need to lower the price and get the games out that that market enjoyed. I am not saying this will save the Wii U or make it a huge success, but there is a large low-cost gaming audience that has potential to be convinced to upgrade to the Wii U where the new games are coming out. Ios and tablets are more of the casuals that are gone, but the young families on a budget who don't want their kids playing all those mature games is still a potential market. These may be the people who the news stories back in the day showed saying I don't need a new Nintendo my old Nintendo is still working just fine.....they need to work to convince those people to upgrade.

At this point I think it's about there only hope to inch the thing toward profitablilty, because as you said the core Nintendo fanbase can't carry the console entirely on it's own.

 

[Foxi4]

Pretty much. The Wii U has a chance at "thriving" as long as it becomes a low-cost alternative system.

 

[trumpet-205]

Pretty much. The Wii U has a chance at "thriving" as long as it becomes a low-cost alternative system.

Simply lowering price tag on the system won't be enough. At this point rather than going after third-party AAA games Nintendo should go after more indie game developers. eShop needs more games like EDGE or Rush where they are priced in impulse buy range.

 

[osirisjem]

Pretty much. The Wii U has a chance at "thriving" as long as it becomes a low-cost alternative system.

The only reasonable way to do that is to get rid of the controller with a screen (which costs Nintendo $150 I think).
At this stage, a SKU for the Wii U without a gamepad controller seems inevitable, if not imminent.

 

[Foxi4]

Simply lower price tag on the system won't be enough. At this point rather than going after third-party AAA games Nintendo should go after more indie game developers. eShop needs more games like EDGE or Rush where they are priced in impulse buy range.

I strongly disagree, people can already get their Indie fix on PC via Steam and on the competition's platforms via the dedicated Indies sections. Nintendo has the eShop for these games and that's where they belong - no extra spotlight is required. Indies alone will not save the system anyways (provided the developers would even go on-board on a "closed" system) - they have limited appeal and attract a rather narrow audience. If they were the miracle cure the Wii U needs, we'd see the OUYA leading the charge when it comes to the console race. The Wii U needs AAA titles, preferably ones that take advantage of its unique capabilities or ones dedicated to the average Nintendo customer and beyond.

 

[blaisedinsd]

The only reasonable way to do that is to get rid of the controller with a screen (which costs Nintendo $150 I think).
At this stage, a SKU for the Wii U without a gamepad controller seems inevitable, if not imminent.

I agree and I think it makes a ton of sense. Cutting the price on the current SKU would be a financial disaster.

They need to lower the price and get there best games out as well, that is the strategy that worked to save the 3DS.

I hope they do this when Mario Kart 8 comes out just like they did the 2DS when Pokemon came out. If not smash bros. would be a game to do it with as well.

I also think some sort of solution of providing a gamecube controller would be a nice gesture for their core fans. Either a wireless pro controller in a gamecube-esque form factor or else some sort of USB device that lets you plug in a Gamecube controller or wavebird.

 

[Foxi4]

I also think some sort of solution of providing a gamecube controller would be a nice gesture for their core fans. Either a wireless pro controller in a gamecube-esque form factor or else some sort of USB device that lets you plug in a Gamecube controller or wavebird.

May I ask why would they provide support for obsolete hardware from two generations back? That's precisely what's holding the Wii U back now - the mindset that we need to stick to backwards compatibility for our dear lives as if it was going to make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things.

There's a perfectly functional and wireless Wii U Pro Controller available for the system as well as the Wii Classic Controller and Wii Classic Controller Pro - there's literally no need for Gamecube controller support when the console itself doesn't even support Gamecube games.

 

[blaisedinsd]

May I ask why would they provide support for obsolete hardware from two generations back? That's precisely what's holding the Wii U back now - the mindset that we need to stick to backwards compatibility for our dear lives as if it was going to make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things.

There's a perfectly functional and wireless Wii U Pro Controller available for the system as well as the Wii Classic Controller and Wii Classic Controller Pro - there's literally no need for Gamecube controller support when the console itself doesn't even support Gamecube games.

I simply hear plenty of Smash and Kart fans who greatly preferred the gamecube controller to the alternatives. These games did well on wii to give so many control options.

I also have heard that wireless controllers are a problem for high level fighting game tournaments.

I have even heard some IGN guy wishing for this on the Nintendo podcast they put out.

I don't personally need this or care, but I think pandering to their fanbase as much as possible is a good thing. A USB device you sell for may $20 is probably a nice profit for them if they wanted to do this.