Hacking How can anyone be okay with Gateway's behavior?

[WolfSaviorZX]

Deleted

 

[anhminh]

If you think they are wrong, sue them.
Like GW sue the clo... oh, wait, lol.

 

[kyogre123]

I can't believe this. I just got a 4.5 3DS XL and I will NOT be getting a Gateway now. I'll take my chances with one of the "Clones" (as if anyone can OWN a 3DS cart, they stole it in the first place).

It seems that you didn't fully read the actually issue, did you?

 

[WolfSaviorZX]

Deleted

 

[Reploid]

I have completely read the issue, I'm saying because Gateway went out of their way to Destroy competitor's consumers I much rather give money to the clone cart and just wait till the firmware is fixed (I never update for months on any device, just commonsense). The way I see it, Gateway stole code from Nintendo, Clone cart stole that code and now Gateway is mad so they are bricking 3DS consoles that use the clone cart. So F them, I buy Nintendo games and I will buy the Clone cart and I recommend others to as well. Don't support Gateway who is anti-competition.

Buy MT cart. Its not a clone.

 

[tofast4u]

Then again, we threw out all our rights and guarantees when we started using flash carts.

The fact of the matter is that we are paying for something that is expected to work. If this was a free software mod then I understand, but don't start charging things that can potentially brick a person's 3DS.

 

[Nismax]

Oh please. Even before this happened, he hated gateway with a passion. He's just acting as if he predicted the apocalypse and wants to feel superior. Last week he was this close to getting banned along with JohnnyBlaze1986 for flamming. Why do you think gamefan5 was begging him not to start the flame war.

I never predicted anything. I also don't even remember anyone specifically who was arguing with me for stating my opinions. All I did was say "I'm returning my Gateway if they don't release FW within a week.

It's not my fault at all that people I can't even name right now got upset with me for stating my personal decision. I never said I hated Gateway.

But, I think it goes without saying that things have changed right now. I'm not as much in the minority as before, so I can criticize Gateway and people will agree. Sorry that doesn't make you happy.

BTW, "The early days of 2014" have passed, still no new firmware.

 

[kyogre123]

I have completely read the issue, I'm saying because Gateway went out of their way to Destroy competitor's consumers I much rather give money to the clone cart and just wait till the firmware is fixed (I never update for months on any device, just commonsense). The way I see it, Gateway stole code from Nintendo, Clone cart stole that code and now Gateway is mad so they are bricking 3DS consoles that use the clone cart. So F them, I buy Nintendo games and I will buy the Clone cart and I recommend others to as well. Don't support Gateway who is anti-competition.

Even if you "read" the info, you didn't get it.

Gateway didn't "replace somehow" the firmware that the clones provide to their customers, but rather they put anticopy measures to their own work.

R4i can't be called a "competitor" if they are just going to grab GW's work, tweak it a little and then release it as theirs. They were the ones releasing the code that actually bricks the 3DS system, while Gateway just released a hidden code that in no way could be activated in its own.

If you want to support a team who does zero test to what they release and also can't properly steal the work of others to the point of releasing a deathly firmware for their own customers, then something is wrong with you.

 

[wintermute808]

No need to sue them, just don't buy their card. Why support a company that Destroys competitor's consumers? It's like if Microsoft had it if you plugged an Xbox One controller into a PS4 that it would brick it.

Its like rephrasing an analogy thats already been written a thousand times and posting it yourself, bricking your ability for independent thought.
It has already been said a million times.
No one bats an eyelash when console designers put in bricking failsafes for unsigned code, but when Gateway does it for their own design there is a river of salty tears.

 

[Commoner]

I have completely read the issue, I'm saying because Gateway went out of their way to Destroy competitor's consumers I much rather give money to the clone cart and just wait till the firmware is fixed (I never update for months on any device, just commonsense). The way I see it, Gateway stole code from Nintendo, Clone cart stole that code and now Gateway is mad so they are bricking 3DS consoles that use the clone cart. So F them, I buy Nintendo games and I will buy the Clone cart and I recommend others to as well. Don't support Gateway who is anti-competition.

It's actually fascinating how a person who is angry or scared can take a bit of information, misread or misquote it, then arrive at a premature or unfounded conclusion which can then be spread like wildfire by other angry or scared individuals.

As of date there is no definitive proof that Gateway has intentionally put in code to brick people's 3DS if they find that someone has been using a clone to run their code.

This entire 3ds clone bricking debacle is turning into a perfect case study of how misinformation and wild speculation can easily be accepted as fact by those inclined to do so.

It is interesting how prone the user base in these forums are to hop onto the misinformation and rumor-mongering bandwagon.

I'm going to quote myself here from another post I put up in another thread :

From what I can gather checksums are run as a sort of sanity check to make sure everything in memory is in order before the code messes around with the NAND. This is because the exploit used to get the carts to work isn't exactly particularly stable or predictable. Remember, the carts are basically relying on a crash bug to get any of this to work. This is why sometimes, when you run the DS Profile exploit, the 3ds just hangs and you need to reboot.

Occasionally something goes wrong and the data in the memory gets corrupted. This is why the checksums are run. They need to make sure everything is in order before messing with NAND to prevent potential damage.

The rest of this is speculation but what seems to have happened is that after the clones hit the market, Gateway put in some additional checksums in their 2.0 beta firmware to prevent people from just outright copying their firmware and claiming they made it themselves.

The clone manufacturers supposedly recognized that the checksum code was what was preventing the new launchers from running on their clone carts and decided to strip or override them. In their haste, however, they managed to remove the checksums for the sanity checks along with the 'copy-protection' checksums.

So now, if something goes wrong while loading the exploit, the checksum is skipped, the code goes ahead and writes to the NAND, and the end result is that some unlucky bastard now has a bricked 3ds.

I am personally inclined to believe this theory more than the conspiracy theories that either Gateway or Nintendo are intentionally bricking people's consoles.

As someone who knows a bit about messing with bug exploits, memory hooking, and messing around with compiled code, I know how unstable and unpredictable relying on an exploit or bug can be to execute code for you. And I know exactly how tempting it can be to run a search and replace algorithm on compiled code when you want to replace multiple instances of bits of code that are giving you problems, especially if you are in a hurry or are just plain lazy.

This seems like a much more believable scenario to me than either Gateway or Nintendo intentionally putting in code to kill people's consoles.

For Nintendo, such action would only mean that they lose a potential customer who might have bought original games he really liked in the future. For Gateway it means getting rid of a perfectly good 4.0 to 4.5 firmware 3ds which are getting harder to come by. And ultimately losing a potential customer when their 2.0 firmware comes out and the clones are not able to provide the much wanted multirom and card 2 features due to their inability to reprogram the FPGAs on their clone carts.

This is not even considering the possibility that misinformation might get out of hand and just burn everybody involved. As in what seems to be happening now.

Intentional bricking of people's 3ds just seems irrational to me and while I acknowledge angry people might do stupid things in the heat of the moment, programming something that complex takes time, patience, and level-headedness which in all likelihood will give you enough time to calm down and consider the consequences of doing something of that magnitude.

 

[WolfSaviorZX]

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[kyogre123]

They put code in it to BRICK 3DS's. It doesn't protect their work at all. Just ONE Less 3DS capable of using a Gateway card. Blame the clone carts all you want. Gateway went out of their way to Brick 3DS's so they are in the wrong. I'm not supporting Gateway I'll tell you that much. Even if the Clone Carts does "zero test" it's still better than trying to destroy 3DS's. Something is wrong with you, and you are a Corporatist that likes monopolies.

You are making zero sense in this, mate... You are just defending the cloners as if they were victims in this, but they were the ones that released the unsecured launcher. Think about it before replying me again.

 

[Ryukouki]

You are making zero sense in this, mate... You are just defending the cloners as if they were victims in this, but they were the ones that released the unsecured launcher. Think about it before replying me again.

And you're forgetting that the Gateway team is not faultless in this matter.

 

[WolfSaviorZX]

Deleted

 

[wintermute808]

They put code in it to BRICK 3DS's. It doesn't protect their work at all. Just ONE Less 3DS capable of using a Gateway card. Blame the clone carts all you want. Gateway went out of their way to Brick 3DS's so they are in the wrong. I'm not supporting Gateway I'll tell you that much. Even if the Clone Carts does "zero test" it's still better than trying to destroy 3DS's. Something is wrong with you, and you are a Corporatist that likes monopolies.

Blatant copying isn't synonymous with some free market ultra fair wet dream. I hate to tell you this but its not as though Gateway bought up all of the Flashcart manufacturers and "monopolized" competitors out of the market. Gateway did not patent the act of running custom firmware on the device. Any competitor is and always has been free and able to create any firmware they wanted, but they opted to copy some one else's instead. Your cries of "monopoly" and "corporatism" fall so completely flat that they are an embarrassment.

 

[kyogre123]

And you're forgetting that the Gateway team is not faultless in this matter.

No, I am not; but if you pay a little more attention to the whole sittuation, people are acting as if Gateway replaced R4i's safe work though a attack to their official site with a bricker code without letting them know about this.

I know you are disappointed of Gateway, I have read your posts, but at the end they are not responsible of who is going to tweak their work. At least they released their first launchers without any protection, and now thanks to them the 3DS scene is emerging instead of being held by a couple of hackers behind curtains. And don't let me mention the irresponsibility of Normatt again...

 

[ELok]

While I think WolfSaviorZX have "interesting" idea and opinion, I have to say that he's right about his last post kyogre123.

Gateway does seem to have deliberately bricked 3DS of customers that have nothing to do with R4i team's action.


EDIT :

I know you are disappointed of Gateway, I have read your posts, but at the end they are not responsible of who is going to tweak their work.

Actually, they are. If they really are the one behind this, they are responsible for writing a "kill switch" code whose purpose if to "destroy the 3DS of those evil customer that decided R4i instead of us".

 

[kyogre123]

Cloners aren't victims, the users are victims. But the cloners didn't go out of their way to destroy consoles.

They did when they released a launcher that wasn't properly tested.

You can spin it however you want but gateway is being anti-consumer and general arseholes (granted it doesn't surprise me). You think about it before replying to me again.

Again, GW holds no responsibility on whoever screw their code to get a different result, try to not see the problem from a single angle.

 

[Commoner]

And you're forgetting that the Gateway team is not faultless in this matter.

Am I the only person on these forums who believes that someone is innocent until proven guilty?

Just because people are making wild accusations that Gateway intentionally bricked consoles does not make it true.

There is no definitive proof that Gateway has intentionally bricked anyone's consoles.

 

[kyogre123]

While I think WolfSaviorZX have "interesting" ideas amd opinion, I have to say that he's right about his last post kyogre123.

Gateway does seem to have deliberately bricked 3DS of customers that have nothing to do with R4i team's action.

It's known that Gateway created the code, but then again, nothing of this would have happened if R4i would have done their job at properly analysing their code to remove the bricker part of it.

And even better, R4i should have done their own code in the first place.