Hacking Estimating Gateway 3DS Manufacturing Cost

[Asphalter]

I'd like to guess the gateway 3ds cost to make (excluding R&D and labor)

Total cost:
$15 - $20 ?



Actel ProASIC 3 FPGA with Winbond 16MBit serial flash A3P125-VQG100:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/A3P125-VQG100/1100-1025-ND/2744972
$8-12 ?

24MHz crystal oscillator:
$1 ?

micro SD card assembly:

PCB:

 

[Pedeadstrian]

I'd like to guess the gateway 3ds cost to make (excluding R&D and labor)

Total cost:
$15 - $20 ?



Actel ProASIC 3 FPGA with Winbond 16MBit serial flash A3P125-VQG100:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/A3P125-VQG100/1100-1025-ND/2744972
$8-12 ?

24MHz crystal oscillator:
$1 ?

micro SD card assembly:

PCB:

Don't forget sweatshop worker tears. I hear they use them as lubricants.

 

[vini9157]

i think i will wait for the clone version, that red gateway look so simple. How many days any chinese company usually take to clone something like this?

 

[Punkonjunk]

RnD into the asic is what's going to cost an arm and a leg. It sucks, but they have a corner on the market to recoup that, hopefully before clones pop up.

But.... for us consumers, clones will pop up... and hell, maybe we'll learn something, but judging by the limitations on the 3ds firmware, I seriously doubt it. What we've got is an extremely inconvenient "pirate already released games from a couple months ago or more" card, one at a time. I don't get the hype.

 

[Rydian]

What we've got is an extremely inconvenient "pirate already released games from a couple months ago or more" card, one at a time. I don't get the hype.

The hype is over paying $80 to be able to pirate a couple hundred games.

 

[StuartBubblsHann]

The hype is over paying $80 to be able to pirate a couple hundred games.

Not bad when you look at it that way, although I guess piracy is frowned upon lol.

 

[Punkonjunk]

The hype is over paying $80 to be able to pirate a couple hundred games.

Well yeah. But.... I've bought all the games I wanted to play. I assume many folks have, too. If you haven't bought the games you'd really like to play.... 80 bucks is more than two or three of 'em used.

Don't get me wrong. I don't give a crap about piracy, either way. It's an ethical quagmire with great points on both sides, in my eyes the solution is what android's been doing, cheap apps, cheap games. Not worth piracy when stuff I want is 2 bucks, but hey. Not worth the debate.

The issue here though, this is bad. We can't argue this thing is for backups, not reasonably. This is a straight, 100% piracy device. And that could lead to a baaaaaaaaad precedent... It's a lot easier to push anti-hardware laws (like the ones we saw against R4) when we have this straight piracy device. It's not demonstrably usable for homebrew, or..... anything. We can't dump our own backups at this point. There is NOTHING this device can be used for besides piracy.

In my eyes, that's.... not good for us, not good for the scene, not good for anyone except people who don't want to pay for games, and only these people. The ones who've refused to buy games they want, not because they are too expensive, but because they don't want to pay.

And then.... they will pay 80 bucks for a device to pirate them.

C'mon. Those folks are assholes. The gateway is for assholes.

It could also be a gateway to a better device... but again, from the limitations, I'm thinking probably not.


GBAtemp.... was against piracy, once.

Oh wait, according to the terms, it still is:

"Warez" - ROMs, WADs & ISOs

"Warez" is an internet term used to describe copyrighted software, game, film, music and data piracy.

• We DO NOT HOST or PROVIDE ROMs/WADs/ISOs; or link to websites that do contain ROMs/WADs/ISOs.
• Members may NOT ASK and MAY NOT PROVIDE INFORMATION or LINKS for and to places that provide ROM, WAD, and ISO files.
• Members may also NOT mention torrent or warez-containing sites or channels by name or otherwise.
• We do not condone piracy in any way.
• Please go elsewhere if you only wish to download or share illegal files. The GBAtemp Forums are for discussion ONLY.

This device can't do anything except piracy. That's why I have a problem, here. We have no misty veil to hide behind. We have NO FUCKING GREY AREA.

This is bad, right? I mean, is the community dissolutioned about this device, or is it more a case of not caring?

 

[Rydian]

GBAtemp.... was against piracy, once.

Oh wait, according to the terms, it still is:

What? No.

1 - GBATemp was founded as a ROM site.
http://wiki.gbatemp.net/wiki/History_of_GBAtemp

2 - If you read the stickies in the various console sections, you'll find guides on using ROM loaders and ISO loaders and junk all over the place.

3 - That rule is just about GBATemp itself HOSTING illegal files. The site no longer does that for legal reasons, if it did it could be legally taken down.

Only noobs think this site is against piracy.

 

[Punkonjunk]

That's your reply? I'm not trying to start a fight, but you kind of missed my point.

I didn't even claim to be against piracy. The point I was making is that this is bad.... we can't pretend this has anything to do with anything other than "warez."

It doesn't provide a platform for homebrew or creativity. it doesn't even create a platform for convenience... It's only a piracy device. and as I outlined, it's not a cheap piracy device. And it'll only play less than new games. It's only for people who refuse to pay for games. Not people who are too poor. Not people who want to defeat the regionlocks. Not for folks who want to make some homebrews. Not for people who want to play homebrew. Not for anyone, except assholes who refuse to pay for a game at all.

You really don't see how that not only sucks from an ethical standpoint, but a practical one? This is like stealing a slice of cake right under an cam that's observed 24/7. you might get to swallow that cake, but there are a lot more cakes, with a lot more pieces, and even if you get away with it, suddenly we're gonna have a whole lot more security.

Bad precedent. Bad mojo, man.

Do you really need that one, single slice?

Because that misty veil I mentioned, I feel like that's a big part of how we get away with anything, with this sort of thing, and I think this is the perfect opportunity for ninty to seriously lose it, to kick up the anti-piracy into craaaaazy high gear. And with an item like this being the only option, we don't have plausible deniability. You buy this device, it's 100% only to commit crimes.


I can see I pissed you off, Rydian... I don't need to get into the whole "I've lurked forever, yada yada," but you can see where I'm coming from, right? I don't think this device deserves it's hype, and in fact, I think it's dangerous. So.... enjoy your slice.

But don't say I didn't tell you so when the remaining cakes are locked up harder than whatever famous diamond I don't give a crap about.

 

[Pedeadstrian]

That's your reply? I'm not trying to start a fight, but you kind of missed my point.

I didn't even claim to be against piracy. The point I was making is that this is bad.... we can't pretend this has anything to do with anything other than "warez."

It doesn't provide a platform for homebrew or creativity. it doesn't even create a platform for convenience... It's only a piracy device. and as I outlined, it's not a cheap piracy device. And it'll only play less than new games. It's only for people who refuse to pay for games. Not people who are too poor. Not people who want to defeat the regionlocks. Not for folks who want to make some homebrews. Not for people who want to play homebrew. Not for anyone, except assholes who refuse to pay for a game at all.

You really don't see how that not only sucks from an ethical standpoint, but a practical one? This is like stealing a slice of cake right under an cam that's observed 24/7. you might get to swallow that cake, but there are a lot more cakes, with a lot more pieces, and even if you get away with it, suddenly we're gonna have a whole lot more security.

Bad precedent. Bad mojo, man.

Do you really need that one, single slice?

Because that misty veil I mentioned, I feel like that's a big part of how we get away with anything, with this sort of thing, and I think this is the perfect opportunity for ninty to seriously lose it, to kick up the anti-piracy into craaaaazy high gear. And with an item like this being the only option, we don't have plausible deniability. You buy this device, it's 100% only to commit crimes.


I can see I pissed you off, Rydian... I don't need to get into the whole "I've lurked forever, yada yada," but you can see where I'm coming from, right? I don't think this device deserves it's hype, and in fact, I think it's dangerous. So.... enjoy your slice.

But don't say I didn't tell you so when the remaining cakes are locked up harder than whatever famous diamond I don't give a crap about.

After reading that, all I can say is... I really want some god damn cake right now.

 

[Pong20302000]

i love how people think "they can do it for cheaper" just because the hardware cost is low
i mean lets not factor in, Development cost, research costs, programmers cost
plus theres the cost of the samples that went out for free to reviewers and the cost of the postage to get them to the reviewers super fast

they need to make cash back people

 

[Ericthegreat]

I'd like to guess the gateway 3ds cost to make (excluding R&D and labor)

Total cost:
$15 - $20 ?



Actel ProASIC 3 FPGA with Winbond 16MBit serial flash A3P125-VQG100:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/A3P125-VQG100/1100-1025-ND/2744972
$8-12 ?

24MHz crystal oscillator:
$1 ?

micro SD card assembly:

PCB:

I would say they are about $8 wholesale, 10x profit, Gotta remember that they buy in bulk.

 

[elunesgrace]

I would say they are about $8 wholesale, 10x profit, Gotta remember that they buy in bulk.

If this is true, its a poor move on their part.

If it was $40 everyone would buy one. But $80 makes you rethink it as it is the price of 2-3 used 3ds games (and for most people they are only look for maybe 2-3 more games at the moment). Not to mention you have to pay for every micro sd card per game.

It's unfortunate that many companies have technical know-how, but lack the marketing/entrepreneurship experience to really push their business forward.

 

[Gabelvampir]

That's your reply? I'm not trying to start a fight, but you kind of missed my point.

I didn't even claim to be against piracy. The point I was making is that this is bad.... we can't pretend this has anything to do with anything other than "warez."

It doesn't provide a platform for homebrew or creativity. it doesn't even create a platform for convenience... It's only a piracy device. and as I outlined, it's not a cheap piracy device. And it'll only play less than new games. It's only for people who refuse to pay for games. Not people who are too poor. Not people who want to defeat the regionlocks. Not for folks who want to make some homebrews. Not for people who want to play homebrew. Not for anyone, except assholes who refuse to pay for a game at all.

You really don't see how that not only sucks from an ethical standpoint, but a practical one? This is like stealing a slice of cake right under an cam that's observed 24/7. you might get to swallow that cake, but there are a lot more cakes, with a lot more pieces, and even if you get away with it, suddenly we're gonna have a whole lot more security.

Bad precedent. Bad mojo, man.

Do you really need that one, single slice?

Because that misty veil I mentioned, I feel like that's a big part of how we get away with anything, with this sort of thing, and I think this is the perfect opportunity for ninty to seriously lose it, to kick up the anti-piracy into craaaaazy high gear. And with an item like this being the only option, we don't have plausible deniability. You buy this device, it's 100% only to commit crimes.


I can see I pissed you off, Rydian... I don't need to get into the whole "I've lurked forever, yada yada," but you can see where I'm coming from, right? I don't think this device deserves it's hype, and in fact, I think it's dangerous. So.... enjoy your slice.

But don't say I didn't tell you so when the remaining cakes are locked up harder than whatever famous diamond I don't give a crap about.

I think this is really a discussion we (as in the community) should have, you should probably start a thread for this. The problem is that everything related to Gateway here seems to devolve into a flame ware after a few pages. I for one think you are mostly right, but I don't think (or hope) Nintendo will do more against piracy now. They always thought of devices/software that also could run homebrew as straight piracy devices, so they are probably doing all they can do (and spare the money for) to combat flashcards and such already. The only thing new is they now have a target to work against with Gateway.

Oh and now people have a way to convince themselves they are not evil pirates, the Gateway people have an alpha firmware working that disables region locks (and spoofs firmware versions). So now people can tell others (and mainly themselves) "I don't buy this for piracy, I buy this because I don't want to buy another console and pay more for imported games for that".

 

[Pedeadstrian]

I think this is really a discussion we (as in the community) should have, you should probably start a thread for this. The problem is that everything related to Gateway here seems to devolve into a flame ware after a few pages. I for one think you are mostly right, but I don't think (or hope) Nintendo will do more against piracy now. They always thought of devices/software that also could run homebrew as straight piracy devices, so they are probably doing all they can do (and spare the money for) to combat flashcards and such already. The only thing new is they now have a target to work against with Gateway.

Oh and now people have a way to convince themselves they are not evil pirates, the Gateway people have an alpha firmware working that disables region locks (and spoofs firmware versions). So now people can tell others (and mainly themselves) "I don't buy this for piracy, I buy this because I don't want to buy another console and pay more for imported games for that".

This discussion is held on almost every thread in this forum. We don't need it any more.

 

[Rydian]

~

What the hell are you talking about? You said that GBATemp is against piracy, and I pointed out that's false. This site talks about piracy all the time and has guides on it and everything.

The personal morals about flash carts.. .I didn't even mention that.

 

[Schizoanalysis]

Let's not forget the early "backup" devices were piracy only.

Backup units for SNES, GB, etc. Those were basically piracy only.
Modchips for Saturn/Playstation. allowed you to boot only CDR backups.

I don't see how this is in anyway new. Piracy only devices are old news.
Nintendo knows about piracy. DS "homebrew" capability was not fooling anyone. R4s/etc. were piracy devices.

 

[Rinnux]

The "convenience" argument is no longer valid. If you don't want to carry around a lot of card then buy them on the eshop. I understand wanting to only carry one card around. It is a valid point. But since digital copies can be bought from the eshop it's no longer a valid argument for flashcarts.

 

[Schizoanalysis]

Anyone who things that they have have an R4 and play ROMS but that this does not mean that they are a pirate because it is really just a HOMEBREW cart is fooling themselves.

 

[Ericthegreat]

If this is true, its a poor move on their part.

If it was $40 everyone would buy one. But $80 makes you rethink it as it is the price of 2-3 used 3ds games (and for most people they are only look for maybe 2-3 more games at the moment). Not to mention you have to pay for every micro sd card per game.

It's unfortunate that many companies have technical know-how, but lack the marketing/entrepreneurship experience to really push their business forward.

I think once we see a clone coming, it will be about that price.