Hacking Coding vWii 3-core support - everything you need to know.

[rednekcowboy]

indeed it can, and it indeed it does - but i was most intrigued by how you chose to interpret it, rnc.


thats very well said, and posits you as a fairly unbiased and non-judgmental sort of person...sad and peculiar that this does not appear to be an attitude that's being extended to the members of this community, whether you recognize their usernames or not, who can help the people in this thread accomplish the goals and heights which you all seem to aspire to.

Actually, I'm thinking out loud, trying to wrap my head around the whole situation and make sense of it all. It's illogical to make a grandiose announcement when there was no benefit for anyone that you are making the announcement to.

Step a: make an announcement
Step b: update progress
Step c: nothing, dropped

You can surely understand why there is such angst and confusion among the community that was so closely following the situation with baited breath. You can't blame people for being "butthurt" as drmr put it, can you? The logical inference, whether it was spoken or not, would be that the goal was something that would benefit the community as a whole, not, as Ray so comically put it--Stewie from MadTV saying "Look what I can do." That is both a slap and spit in the face of the community that was cheering, supporting and spending money on consoles and certainly not what they were expecting.

I think I've also shown that regardless of who you are or what you do, I will speak my mind. I'm not now, nor have I ever been an ass-kisser and I never will be. I'll talk to everyone the same way as I do not believe that any one person is greater than the other. The fact they may be able to crack a console does not make them a god in my eyes, I base my opinion on a person on the attitude that they display and as of late the team of f0f has not been kind in any way. You get what you give, my friend.

I've said numerous times to numerous people that if they want to help, then help. If all they are doing is trolling then back off and let the people here do what they are trying to do and don't make fun of them, don't post pictures of people holding broken iphones with a caption of "you are dumb" on them or "you are still dumb." If you really want to know where my attitude towards f0f came from of late, you can make a full stop right there and you will have your answer. Dropping veiled hints and poking jabs at people is not helping. Coming here expecting someone to pucker up to get those little tidbits and doing so knowing that those little tidbits aren't going to actually help anyone they are aimed at is not helping. Pardon my language, but I call that being an asshole to the extreme.

 

[the_randomizer]

Actually, I'm thinking out loud, trying to wrap my head around the whole situation and make sense of it all. It's illogical to make a grandiose announcement when there was no benefit for anyone that you are making the announcement to.

Step a: make an announcement
Step b: update progress
Step c: nothing, dropped

You can surely understand why there is such angst and confusion among the community that was so closely following the situation with baited breath. You can't blame people for being "butthurt" as drmr put it, can you? The logical inference, whether it was spoken or not, would be that the goal was something that would benefit the community as a whole, not, as Ray so comically put it--Stewie from MadTV saying "Look what I can do." That is both a slap and spit in the face of the community that was cheering, supporting and spending money on consoles was expecting.

I think I've also shown that regardless of who you are or what you do, I will speak my mind. I'm not now, nor have I ever been an ass-kisser and I never will be. I'll talk to everyone the same way as I do not believe that any one person is greater than the other. The fact they may be able to crack a console does not make them a god in my eyes, I base my opinion on a person on the attitude that they display and as of late the team of f0f has not been kind in any way. You get what you give, my friend.

I've said numerous times to numerous people that if they want to help, then help. If all they are doing is trolling then back off and let the people here do what they are trying to do and don't make fun of them, don't post pictures of people holding broken iphones with a caption of "you are dumb" on them or "you are still dumb." If you really want to know where my attitude towards f0f came from of late, you can make a full stop right there and you will have your answer. Dropping veiled hints and poking jabs at people is not helping. Coming here expecting someone to pucker up to get those little tidbits and doing so knowing that they are going to actually help anyone they are aimed at is not helping. Pardon my language, but I call that being an asshole to the extreme.

I hope that wasn't directed towards me

Spoiler

No, seriously, if I did something wrong, let me know. I'll uh, make myself scarce

 

[rednekcowboy]

I hope that wasn't directed towards me

Spoiler

No, seriously, if I did something wrong, let me know. I'll uh, make myself scarce

You've got nothing to worry about mate. I was speaking with Oncle.....

 

[the_randomizer]

You've got nothing to worry about mate. I was speaking with Oncle.....

Okay, just making sure. There have been so many posts in the last 24 hours I don't even know what's going on with the thread anymore.

 

[comex]

This thread has gone off the rails and I'm disappointed.

marcan's posting was somewhat inflammatory, and I don't see anything particularly incoherent about the PM sven claimed was so. (I obviously don't speak for them and am not apologizing for them; I doubt they see anything worth apologizing for. I'm just providing a gratuitous opinion.)

But that's no reason to get worked up about it and turn this thread into a giant pointless flame war about whether we promised something or who is butthurt or whatever. It won't help. Flame wars are fun to post in but they decrease everyone's motivation to work on and release code, and increase the sense of polarization and even contempt, deserved or not. This is not a threat, it's just - grow up. It's possible to argue about what the best way forward would be without it getting nasty.

The description of how a Linux port to Espresso would be an important step in enabling homebrew in Wii U mode, and thus how the "test" is not merely a pointless exercise but something that needs to be done in any case, is correct. If you think you can make it happen, prove it. If not, you'll probably be able to get some interesting stuff done in vWii mode with 3-core support for libogc applications. Why not focus on getting that done rather than arguing? Or if Maxternal and friends are doing that in PM, can we just bury this thread?



incidentally, I disagree with this post - at least, I've done a fair bit of learning by stumbling around without any initial idea of what I was doing - I learned assembly by wasting a lot of time in IDA a few years ago, and god knows how much time I spent trying to figure out things in Visual Basic like "why are class modules so special and why can't I call subs from them like normal modules" and "to find the distance between two x, y points, could I create a Line GUI element and try to query its length? but there is no length property, will Width work?" when I was young; but I digress.

edit: as I've said before, I know from plenty of experience that the feeling of being excluded from something can cause strong emotion. I don't like excluding people, but what do you want me to do? Despite the general lack of interest currently surrounding the Wii U, there is always enough demand for piracy that certain people will probably go ahead with that if anything is released. Actually, I hope someone gets a softmod to work so that I can release my stuff without feeling bad about it; if that sounds like twisted logic, it's because it is, but...

 

[Ray Lewis]

This thread has gone off the rails and I'm disappointed.

marcan's posting was somewhat inflammatory, and I don't see anything particularly incoherent about the PM sven claimed was so. (I obviously don't speak for them and am not apologizing for them; I doubt they see anything worth apologizing for. I'm just providing a gratuitous opinion.)

But that's no reason to get worked up about it and turn this thread into a giant pointless flame war about whether we promised something or who is butthurt or whatever. It won't help. Flame wars are fun to post in but they decrease everyone's motivation to work on and release code, and increase the sense of polarization and even contempt, deserved or not. This is not a threat, it's just - grow up. It's possible to argue about what the best way forward would be without it getting nasty.

The description of how a Linux port to Espresso would be an important step in enabling homebrew in Wii U mode, and thus how the "test" is not merely a pointless exercise but something that needs to be done in any case, is correct. If you think you can make it happen, prove it. If not, you'll probably be able to get some interesting stuff done in vWii mode with 3-core support for libogc applications. Why not focus on getting that done rather than arguing? Or if Maxternal and friends are doing that in PM, can we just bury this thread?



incidentally, I disagree with this post - at least, I've done a fair bit of learning by stumbling around without any initial idea of what I was doing - I learned assembly by wasting a lot of time in IDA a few years ago, and god knows how much time I spent trying to figure out things in Visual Basic like "why are class modules so special and why can't I call subs from them like normal modules" and "to find the distance between two x, y points, could I create a Line GUI element and try to query its length? but there is no length property, will Width work?" when I was young; but I digress.

edit: as I've said before, I know from plenty of experience that the feeling of being excluded from something can cause strong emotion. I don't like excluding people, but what do you want me to do? Despite the general lack of interest currently surrounding the Wii U, there is always enough demand for piracy that certain people will probably go ahead with that if anything is released. Actually, I hope someone gets a softmod to work so that I can release my stuff without feeling bad about it; if that sounds like twisted logic, it's because it is, but...

No, it is your honest view. Piracy is coming regardless though Comex . You have always been friendly and anything other than condescending. You answer questions or at least acknowledge them without ridiculing anyone. Is my reply harsh? No, I respect you and you've never even hinted at a promise.

Your role in the tweets? No clue. They were misleading though. You speak to others as people. Not that I am anyone but if it is worth anything, fine, I apologize. I don't like anyone typing down to me, lol. I also don't like "lawyer speak.". Everyone knows of all I've said about tweets/posts.

Anyway, if Comex asks for some calm then okay. Solves nothing anyway. Thanks Comex . Makes perfect sense and from little observations I know you speak the truth.

 

[Maxternal]

Yes, people, I definitely agree with Comex on this. I think both sides have made their point of view pretty clear about the present situation and there have been several pages of such posts that haven't exactly promoted progress on this.

thanks for your enthusiasm
but in general, just be calm plz for now

I've been busy with other things for a bit and the PM mentioned was mostly for testing and not much has happened yet but if anyone still wants to contribute, OP still has a fair description of our current status so if ANYONE using ANY programming language that works on a Wii wants to suggest or write up how to perform ANY part of the process as you perceive it, feel free to share.

thanks

 

[the_randomizer]

This thread has gone off the rails and I'm disappointed.

marcan's posting was somewhat inflammatory, and I don't see anything particularly incoherent about the PM sven claimed was so. (I obviously don't speak for them and am not apologizing for them; I doubt they see anything worth apologizing for. I'm just providing a gratuitous opinion.)

But that's no reason to get worked up about it and turn this thread into a giant pointless flame war about whether we promised something or who is butthurt or whatever. It won't help. Flame wars are fun to post in but they decrease everyone's motivation to work on and release code, and increase the sense of polarization and even contempt, deserved or not. This is not a threat, it's just - grow up. It's possible to argue about what the best way forward would be without it getting nasty.

The description of how a Linux port to Espresso would be an important step in enabling homebrew in Wii U mode, and thus how the "test" is not merely a pointless exercise but something that needs to be done in any case, is correct. If you think you can make it happen, prove it. If not, you'll probably be able to get some interesting stuff done in vWii mode with 3-core support for libogc applications. Why not focus on getting that done rather than arguing? Or if Maxternal and friends are doing that in PM, can we just bury this thread?



incidentally, I disagree with this post - at least, I've done a fair bit of learning by stumbling around without any initial idea of what I was doing - I learned assembly by wasting a lot of time in IDA a few years ago, and god knows how much time I spent trying to figure out things in Visual Basic like "why are class modules so special and why can't I call subs from them like normal modules" and "to find the distance between two x, y points, could I create a Line GUI element and try to query its length? but there is no length property, will Width work?" when I was young; but I digress.

edit: as I've said before, I know from plenty of experience that the feeling of being excluded from something can cause strong emotion. I don't like excluding people, but what do you want me to do? Despite the general lack of interest currently surrounding the Wii U, there is always enough demand for piracy that certain people will probably go ahead with that if anything is released. Actually, I hope someone gets a softmod to work so that I can release my stuff without feeling bad about it; if that sounds like twisted logic, it's because it is, but...

And that's a point of view I respect. What can we, the people who post on this thread, do to no longer derail or go off topic and start a flamewar? No one likes them, I sure as hell don't. What can we do to make this a better place? If I set you off, I need to apologized

 

[Maxternal]

And that's a point of view I respect. What can we, the people who post on this thread, do to no longer derail or go off topic and start a flamewar? No one likes them, I sure as hell don't. What can we do to make this a better place?

Hmm, well, a lot of the posts could have very well fit in on this thread :
http://gbatemp.net/threads/fail0verflow-updated-with-alot-of-new-info.347500/
as the posts ARE still discussing further comments fail0verflow members made about the same subject.

 

[the_randomizer]

*Removed*

 

[Ray Lewis]

I hope that wasn't directed towards me

Spoiler

No, seriously, if I did something wrong, let me know. I'll uh, make myself scarce

Over now Randomizer. The private convo is and has been on topic. Good people looking to help, have skills? Send Maxternal a pm. Civil, friendly and the "Coalition of the willing" are there. We may be monkeys but no banana offerings please

 

[rednekcowboy]

Actually, I hope someone gets a softmod to work so that I can release my stuff without feeling bad about it; if that sounds like twisted logic, it's because it is, but...

I think we can all agree that this is something that we all hope to see, preferably sooner than later.

I think if Piracy was all that anyone was after(the people in this thread anyways) the conversation would have stopped with the announcement of the Ukey. None of us here that I've talked to want this, in fact we want just the opposite.

Again, I truly meant no disrespect and I am truly sorry if I offended anyone as that was not my intention in the least. I want a community that works together for the common good. 1 where everyone is included--from a guy like me who can't do a whole helluva lot but test, to guys like you Comex who can pitch in and help out guys like Max and Ninja who know a little and could really benefit from someone with experience and learn and grow so that one day they will be able to assist someone else. Maybe this is too idealistic but the best "scenes" that I've been a part of have this and it makes for a freaking awesome community.

I hope you can understand where I am coming from. My intentions are pure, even if my words are not so clear. I'll leave it at that.

 

[uyjulian]

Ohh, I get it, people are too scared to release because of "piracy"
Did you know? Without piracy, I can't try before I buy.
But everybody knows all this piracy crap? Look, fof is not going to release their mods, but someone else will... Stop begging fof for their bloody softmods, they will never release it...

 

[JoostinOnline]

Ohh, I get it, people are too scared to release because of "piracy"
Did you know? Without piracy, I can't try before I buy.
But everybody knows all this piracy crap? Look, fof is not going to release their mods, but someone else will... Stop begging fof for their bloody softmods, they will never release it...

Actually, as I understand it, marcan said unless someone proves him wrong about the lack of interest with ported Linux, he won't release hacks.

But anyway, let's not turn this into another "excuses for piracy that I pulled out of my ass" thread.

 

[Ray Lewis]

Ohh, I get it, people are too scared to release because of "piracy"
Did you know? Without piracy, I can't try before I buy.
But everybody knows all this piracy crap? Look, fof is not going to release their mods, but someone else will... Stop begging fof for their bloody softmods, they will never release it...

Sometimes you are sarcastic but also this is something I want to say:

I already went through all of that, lol. Those with the info hold the keys, so it is not a discussion nor is this an argument. Save typing, don't waste anymore time on it. If I cannot be a pest and harass somebody into doing something then I highly doubt anyone else would short of water boarding them or some other type of torture (have not ruled this approach out out it depends on my mood and how desperate I feel, JOKING). Anyone have specific ideas for Maxternal's project?

--The most likely outcome is that we won't have homebrew as the WiikeyU will block it, and if there is homebrew then it will likely be Wii stuff with 3 core support. May as well accept this. [/quote]

 

[marcan_troll]

Suggestion: ban Ray Lewis. Seriously, with folks like him running around, this forum isn't gaining any credibility. Every single one of his replies is a horrible concoction of utter incomprehensible nonsense, lies, bizarre conclusions, putting words in other people's mouth, flamebait, unfunny jokes, and poor formatting. I mean, at least everyone else is somewhere on the spectrum between reasonable folks who want homebrew and warez kids, but Ray Lewis is on a different dimension of insanity and stupidity (given his "enthusiasm", both here and on Twitter, we all knew there was something wrong with him and that's why we avoided replying to him for a while, but now it's gotten out of hand). Letting him drive discussion by replying every third reply is half of what drove this thread downhill.

(or, you know, Ray, you could just shut up already)

 

[JoostinOnline]

*snip*

Assuming you are marcan, was my last post correct?

 

[sven42]

Assuming you are marcan, was my last post correct?

somewhat. first step towards a homebrew sdk (for which we neither have time nor motivation) is to start porting linux to vwii with three cores. if that happens we'll figure out how to proceed to wiiu mode from there.

 

[Ray Lewis]

Suggestion: ban Ray Lewis. Seriously, with folks like him running around, this forum isn't gaining any credibility. Every single one of his replies is a horrible concoction of utter incomprehensible nonsense, lies, bizarre conclusions, putting words in other people's mouth, flamebait, unfunny jokes, and poor formatting. I mean, at least everyone else is somewhere on the spectrum between reasonable folks who want homebrew and warez kids, but Ray Lewis is on a different dimension of insanity and stupidity (given his "enthusiasm", both here and on Twitter, we all knew there was something wrong with him and that's why we avoided replying to him for a while, but now it's gotten out of hand). Letting him drive discussion by replying every third reply is half of what drove this thread downhill.

(or, you know, Ray, you could just shut up already)

Lol, the x86 stuff is easier to dev for, port to, and I get that. MS today, PS4, able to likely port PC games there. Glad you go back to flaming. Aside from the bad joke really pointing out I've done all except those things, the rest was really saying to stop worrying about it or asking you about anything. Was not being harsh at all.

I am for freedom and free flow of info. You don't like me but passion hardly shows "Something wrong with somebody" fits. I wish you well and you have your reasons. Is this wrong to say?

 

[marcan_troll]

Assuming you are marcan, was my last post correct?

Kind of. Releasing the exploit relevant for Wii U mode as-is isn't my call, because I didn't write it. However, I am strongly urging the person who did not to do so unless there is some interest, which is why I put the time into writing up the fail0verflow article and documenting the Espresso memory race and core initialization as a way of gauging whether there is, indeed, enough developer interest (and I like to think that that person mostly agrees). I am also not particularly motivated to work on reversing and documenting hardware further at this point (which is one of the things I usually do best) unless I see such interest.

FWIW, a full SMP port of Linux is probably not possible given only the information that I disclosed. However, any effort to start and get to a partial port (and subsequently identify what's missing) would already be a big milestone and a demonstration of interest.

My definition of "success" would be that there is enough developer interest to create a usefully complete framework for homebrew, and at least one example application, before softmod piracy becomes possible/rampant. Part of the reason why we lost motivation is the Plan A/B thing that Lewis loves to keep referring to. Plan A was re-enabling Wii U peripherals from vWii mode. Plan B is a Wii U mode exploit. Plan A wouldn't have allowed for easy piracy (because the security parts of the hardware would stay locked, and there would be no easy access to Wii U mode firmware), but it turned out to be impossible because some of the hardware cannot be re-enabled again without a full system reset (it can be partially re-enabled, but due to the stupid design of the Latte, some critical parts are permanently locked down, for no good reason as far as we can see). For example, we were able to get 32MB (instead of 24MB) of MEM1 again from vWii mode, but only at the cost of totally breaking the Starbuck side and putting the system into an unusable state in other ways, because some subsystems needed to be reinitialized and that just wasn't possible. For a while it looked like it was, but after thorough analysis it seems some important registers are just irreversibly locked down.

Plan A would've also made maintaining everything a lot easier, because things would be launched from vWii mode and we could've kept using our existing exploits and knowledge of the firmware, instead of starting a brand new cat and mouse game.

No, Ray, you don't have to reply to this.