Should bullying be a crime now?

[Foxi4]

Now, I don't want to go on a ramprantpage here, but I'll tell you one thing - the condition on human nature is nasty, not to use derrogatory terms, and life is harsh. An utter lack of reaction brews more and more trouble as you go down the line.

Thinking that if you refuse to be violent againts your agressors, that if you refuse to fight, you break the circle of violence, is utopian and non-sensical. Even if all decent human beings stopped being violent all of a sudden, there will always be this one completely inconsiderate douche who will live in complete disregard of the standards of social interaction, and you have to be ready. You have to be prepared for that douche, and you have to stand your ground - you have to stand in defense of yourself and those around you, because you will never know when you become a target.

I'm going to use an analogy that, on the surface, has little to do with bullying per se, but it shows the mechanism at work. After the end of World War I, sanctions were put on Germany - the country was not allowed to create combat-ready naval units and had to cut down military spendings as well as lower the total amount of troops - it was agreed upon by an international and unbias commision. Now, Hitler got to power, and guess what he did? The exact opposite - he created massive contingents of soldiers armed to the teeth as well as a fleet of military vessels and increased military hardware production rates. What did Europe do?

They kindly asked him to stop.

Result? World War II.

Europe was bullied into a stance of ignorance, it refused to execute the sanctions placed on the nation, fearing another conflict and by proxy evoked another war by doing absolutely nothing to stop it. This is what I am talking about.

Bullying always has been and always will be a part of human nature - fighting it is only possible by learning altruistic methods of saying "No" when facing injustice. When you are threatened - do something about it.

 

[dgwillia]

As someone who was bullied pretty badly back in Middle/Part of High School, yes. But from a logical and reasoning standpoint, no.

If it did become illegal, I couldnt imagine how much more restrictive schools would become to prevent themselves from getting in trouble. At the same time, I know how badly constant insults can really screw with a person over time. I'm 22 and still have some self esteem issues from all the crap I dealt with.

And to those who say fight back, you must have not heard of the Zero Tolerance rule. Can't even stick up for yourself or you risk getting in just as much trouble as the bully, or possibly even expelled. And after dealing with the same crap for long enough, you either eventually just learn to tune it out, or snap and end up being on the local news.

 

[MelodieOctavia]

If we start criminalizing bullying, we need to define precisely what criminal bullying is.
If a six year old boy pushes a five year old boy down or knocks his ice cream out of his hand, is that a crime?
What if one third grader regularly taunts another third grader with names like "four eyes" or "fatty"? Is that a crime?
What if the members of a class collectively ostracize the weird kid that eats glue? Is that a crime?

Eventually we'll find a point where this 'bullying' is of a criminal level,
and that level is attained far more often with the advent of the internet and social networks,
but when you say "criminalize bullying" it leads one to think of the zero tolerance policies that now get kids expelled from school for carrying ibuprofen in their pocket.

As was said before, many bullying practices are already illegal(Harassment, Assault, Conspiracy to commit assault, theft, etc..) If such illegal practices are deemed of bullying nature as stated by a yet-to-be-written law, then additional "bullying" charges could be tacked on, or "upgraded". Kind of like how you have additional charges if you use a vehicle to commit a crime in some states.

 

[Foxi4]

~Snip!~

That's exactly my attitude, except worded in a nicer fashion. We are on the same boat indeed - there's a difference between "criminal bullying" as Vulpes put it, and a simple everyday squabble.

 

[Valwin]

Push them thats why i did no need for someone else to fight your battles

 

[Foxi4]

As was said before, many bullying practices are already illegal(Harassment, Assault, Conspiracy to commit assault, theft, etc..) If such illegal practices are deemed of bullying nature as stated by a yet-to-be-written law, then additional "bullying" charges could be tacked on, or "upgraded". Kind of like how you have additional charges if you use a vehicle to commit a crime in some states.

I don't think that's fair - "bullying" is an umbrella term, it should not be a factor. If a defendant is being judged for assault, he assaulted someone plain and simple. You cannot charge him with "bullying" which consisted of assaulting someone - he's already being charged for that. What about double jeopardy?

I've got a similar opinion about so-called "Hate Crimes" - if someone harms another person due to the colour of their skin, how is it any different than any other motive there is? The end result is the same, and it's the end result that we should be concerned with. You cannot penalize being stupid or following an unfair ideology, you penalize inflicting harm upon another person.

I can see that certain factors could decrease the subsequent penalty, for example the sanity of the defendant during the crime, but ideology? Why so? Being racist isn't illegal, much like being an idiot isn't a crime. Spreading and actively taking part in propagating a hateful trend is another thing entirely, but just being a part of it? Nah.

 

[tatripp]

Bullying should not be a crime in itself. If someone is bullying someone significantly, then there is probably another crime being committed like assault or burglary. I'm pretty sure that everyone gets bullied in a public high school just about every day. People will make fun of you, gossip about you, give you a hard time, etc.

 

[leic7]

Making bullying a crime would just be like expanding the Zero Tolerance policies at schools and the Safe Schools Act to the rest of our society, right? Sure, I'm for it. We already have different laws dealing with things like slander and abuse, but making a more comprehensive anti-bullying law would make it easier for victims to reclaim their rights, and bystanders to help them, I'd imagine. Canadians will have a clearer framework for their conduct, we'll be a better society for it.

 

[The Catboy]

Being someone who had suffered from bullying pretty much my whole life, I am on the fence about this idea.
Bullying itself shouldn't a crime, Foxi4 really summed it up quite nicely for me, so I am not going to repeat what he said. But at the same time, it shouldn't be something taken lightly.
Allowing kids to be kids is one thing. Kids/teens are naturally going to fight over things and even get into verbal or physical altercations, but often time have been known to work themselves out in the end. It's part of nature. At the same time, we can't allow people to harassed over attacked over nothing or because they are different. By this I mean, a teen being harassed for being homosexual, too feminine/manly, or not popular, ect. These kinda bullying actually leave scars on a person and can cause future problems. Now interesting enough, I don't think this should be flat a crime, I think this should be handled with something like mediation or attempting any means of solving it peacefully. Making it crime won't make it just go away, so it won't solve anything by doing that.

 

[JasmineJewelThie]

No but being a lazy parent should be. Using the computer as a babysitter will yield these results. Kids are stupid so why would you allow them to video chat with strangers. Did this girl walk to that boy's house? How is it that after having to move schools over this that this girl still has a facebook. Then yet again after another move still a facebook. Why did the parents not report the cyberstalking. Last time I checked it was illegal to possess. Why was this man not reported. While it is sad that this girl killed herself she is no martyr.

I think we need to as a country take a look at all the psychotropic drugs that are being handed out so easily. Why give kids a drug thats side effects are suicidal thoughts. A 12 year old is too young to know they are depressed. Why is it that most people who kill themselves are on anti-depressants? Why are mothers and fathers killing their whole family out of the blue.

Psychiatric side effects of Paxil have frequently included anxiety (2% to 5%), agitation (2% to 5%), depersonalization (3%), depression (2%), lack of emotion (2%), and emotional lability. Euphoria, hallucinations, hostility, increased libido, neurosis, paranoid reaction, antisocial reaction, delusions, drug dependence, hysteria, manic-depressive reaction, psychotic depression, and psychosis.The FDA is a giant fraud. Have you ever seen local lawyer commercials on TV listing multiple drugs being recalled. All of them being FDA approved. How can a drug that takes millions of dollars in tests to be approved make it as far as our hands it has such adverse effects. The human body was meant to be self sufficient. Im done.

 

[431unknown]

How about pressing charges on the parents for you know not parenting well enough? How about we make that a law? I tell mykid all the time don't touch anyone and be nice and polite to everyone, but if someone hits you or tries to bully you defend yourself.

 

[Gahars]

I think it's worth noting a few things...
A) Self defense isn't a legal get out of jail free card. There are a whole ton of variables that get considered in these sorts of cases, so even if you think you're justified in just punching back, the law may not agree.

B) Standing up for yourself is important, sure, but I don't necessarily agree that fighting back is always the best choice. You can stand up to a bully and assert yourself without throwing a punch. I don't want to say that violence is never necessary, because the world is never so black and white, but it shouldn't be presented as the best or only solution either. (This is what I meant about not entirely being on the same boat, Foxi )

 

[Foxi4]

I think it's worth noting a few things...
A) Self defense isn't a legal get out of jail free card. There are a whole ton of variables that get considered in these sorts of cases, so even if you think you're justified in just punching back, the law may not agree.

Obviously. You don't exactly go out and burn down someone's house because he called yo mamma fat - there needs to be gradation in everything. At the same time, if I believe that my life is threatened - for example, I'm being presented with the sharp end of a knife, the assaliant should be aware that I am entitled to retaliate.

B) Standing up for yourself is important, sure, but I don't necessarily agree that fighting back is always the best choice. You can stand up to a bully and assert yourself without throwing a punch. I don't want to say that violence is never necessary, because the world is never so black and white, but it shouldn't be presented as the best or only solution either. (This is what I meant about not entirely being on the same boat, Foxi )

The way I see it, we should never be the ones to *start* the physical violence, however if someone is already in the process of fighting with us, we should be entitled to bash his teeth in. Dialogue should be the default method of defusing conflict, but at the same time, one should be prepared in case dialogue does not yield results.

Perhaps that clarifies it... I use the words "fight back" in the metaphorical sense, meaning "resist" or "defend yourself" - not in the sense of "grab a bat and show the bully some street justice".

 

[The Milkman]

Now, I'm going to be the nasty guy and say "No, it should not be a crime". Before you get your torches and pitchforks, let me finish.

Bullying should not be a crime - the word you're looking for is psychological/physical maltreatment, and I'm pretty sure that in extreme cases it is considered a crime already.

Bullying is a part of human nature, it's present in ones childhood as well as in adulthood. Life isn't easy - it's a constant struggle in which all the pawns fight againts each other for both domination and the acceptance from other pawns, and someone always loses in that struggle. Of course there should be certain limits as to what can be considered bullying and what becomes an assault - that's what we have law for. I don't think that people should be punished for other people's low "resistance" to everyday squabbles, people should only be punished if they actually cross the line. Life isn't easy, humans always hated each other and always will. If some people are unprepared for that... well... sorry to hear that, but there's not much that can be done.

What I'm trying to say is - you cannot penalize humans for doing something that is natural to human beings.

So is killing and hate. Does that mean we dismiss it as "human nature" when someone kills someone else because they did something they didnt like? I agree with your point, but if im not mistaken the whole purpose of law is weed out the most undesirible parts of human nature.

 

[Foxi4]

So is killing and hate. Does that mean we dismiss it as "human nature" when someone kills someone else because they did something they didnt like? I agree with your point, but if im not mistaken the whole purpose of law is weed out the most undesirible parts of human nature.

The whole purpose of law is to weed out the undesirable acts a human might perform, as well as draw boundries between what is socially acceptable and what is not.

Killing is not penalized by law per se - nobody is going to sue you for fishing, killing, gutting and eating a fish (unless it's endangered/it's not fishing season etc., we're not here to discuss fishing regulations ), but you will be penalized if you do the same thing to another human being, as it does not lay within the social construct.

A part of being human is being sociable - humans are social animals and they build sets of rules they agree to abide in order to be a part of a congregation.

Moreover, if that's not enough, killing is only penalized in very specific instances. What can be considered murder in times of peace will be considered a noble action in times of war.

Everything depends on the context.

 

[retrodoctor]

Bullying falls under harassment, which is illegal.

 

[The Milkman]

So is killing and hate. Does that mean we dismiss it as "human nature" when someone kills someone else because they did something they didnt like? I agree with your point, but if im not mistaken the whole purpose of law is weed out the most undesirible parts of human nature.

The whole purpose of law is to weed out the undesirable acts a human might perform, as well as draw boundries between what is socially acceptable and what is not.

Killing is not penalized by law per se - nobody is going to sue you for fishing, killing, gutting and eating a fish (unless it's endangered/it's not fishing season etc., we're not here to discuss fishing regulations ), but you will be penalized if you do the same thing to another human being, as it does not lay within the social construct.

A part of being human is being sociable - humans are social animals and they build sets of rules they agree to abide in order to be a part of a congregation.

Moreover, if that's not enough, killing is only penalized in very specific instances. What can be considered murder in times of peace will be considered a noble action in times of war.

Everything depends on the context.

I really have no way to argue with your reasoning there, well played

 

[Foxi4]

And to those who say fight back, you must have not heard of the Zero Tolerance rule. Can't even stick up for yourself or you risk getting in just as much trouble as the bully, or possibly even expelled. And after dealing with the same crap for long enough, you either eventually just learn to tune it out, or snap and end up being on the local news.

To be perfectly honest, fighting back means "fighting back within the regulations". That said, I'm not a big supporter of "Zero Tolerance" when in the end the rules antagonize the victim, not the culprit. I would rather be expelled, change schools and live knowing that I did the right thing than to be a victim in a trap of my own creation, unable to defend myself due to a web of unreasonable rules. Of course, physical violence should be the last resort, to be used when your life and/or health is actually threatened - there are other channels, but never the less, an action should cause a reaction - a simple report can do wonders. Injustice should be protested, not ignored. I refuse to tune it out - I would much rather be heard. Bottling up pressure only causes a louder bang when the mental constraints break.

 

[ouch123]

As someone who was basically bullied for everyday of my life going through primary and secondary education, I think I'm pretty familiar with bullying. And I have to say, being bullied made me stronger, more sensitive and kinder than I otherwise would be, I think. It's tough, and can feel extremely unfair and hopeless at times, but surviving makes you stronger. I'm not interested in revealing the specifics here, but despite the rough time I had, I still think the experience shaped me into a responsible person. I don't think I've ever bullied anyone before, and certainly never intentionally and I think my history with bullying has played no small part in that.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Bullying falls under harassment, which is illegal.

Except in school.