Gaming Zelda vs the term RPG- August 2012 edition

[FAST6191]

Earlier today http://www.thegamecritique.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/RPG-Chart-Stephen-Winson.jpg * (it is a big chart showing what game that might gain the title RPG was influenced by/related to what) was linked up in the IRC channel and one of the discussions that arose concerned Zelda being included in the list.

*original source for the data using it http://www.thegamecritique.com/recent-posts/the-rpg-lineage-chart/4392/


Although I have personally being trying to avoid the use of genre terms, mainly as it is increasingly useless as time goes on, the discussion of whether Zelda might possibly not necessarily be unworthy of the label "RPG". however how it might be ill fitting is an interesting one and furthermore it speaks to the broader topic.

The contention (from Jdbye in this case) was that RPG type games all but require levelling and upgradeable/customisable weapon setups and that Zelda lacks this and thus lacks RPG status.

My counter (for Zelda being a RPG or at least able to be tarred with that brush) was that upgradeable health*, increased ammo capacity, gaining of spells and some upgrades for weapons, if not outright replacements, are maybe not functionally identical but not too great a leap.

*obtained by beating bosses and spending time exploring the dungeons/overworld which is grinding by any other name as I see it.

Thoughts from others on the positions stated or even better your own thoughts on the matter.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

It's not "unworthy" to be a RPG, that feels some insulting, like RPGs are some type of master class genre. It's just, by classification, not a RPG.

There's no leveling, no stat growth, no nonliner path of progression (both from a level and character standpoint). Even games that are like it AND have RPG aspects (see Darksiders) aren't even considered (action) RPGs.

Zelda is action-adventure. There's nothing wrong with that, nor do I understand why people fight to try to get it labeled as a RPG. It gains nor loses any status from having a RPG mantle on it.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

This is a hard one...Because you're right, they're a few RPG "elements" available in the Zelda franchise like the health and magic expansion, but I think the weapon argument kind of falls short. For instance, the biggest "upgrades" you get in most current Zelda games are swords, shields, the slingshot->bow upgrade and..I dunno, I can't think of any others at the moment.

But I don't see the problem with Zelda being an Action-Adventure instead of an RPG, it's not like it makes it any less of a good game because it's not classified as a certain genre.

 

[EyeZ]

When i hear the term RPG i do not think of Zelda, so i can say i do not class the Zelda franchise as RPG's.

 

[DragorianSword]

Wow I would never even think about calling it an RPG.
There are very few elements in the Zelda-series that I associate with RPG's.
I'd follow Guild and Suprgamr in calling it an Action-Adventure game.

 

[yuyuyup]

Nintendo should make a Zelda RPG. Sorry if this is wildly off topic. Please report this post for immediate deletion.

Also, Zelda 2 contains core RPG elements like Experience building, spending earned points, but obviously it's not a typical RPG.

 

[Deleted member 158512]

This is a generational issue (both age of the people and the generation that they started X type of gaming). For example, Final Fantasy Legend (SaGa) was my first RPG, and because of that, my definition of the genre was formed as, 'game with random encounters, turn-based battles, formulas to determine outcome, hit points, gold received for victory, weapons and stats to purchase with gold' and so forth. Pokemon was my second RPG, which was virtually identical except that characters leveled up and learned new skills based on their level (in SaGa, certain classes of characters were randomly assigned skills, while others simply equipped magic tomes, and so forth). And then I branched out into Final Fantasy games, which are like the previous two, but with MP instead of skills that have to be refreshed or tempered. Today, a lot of internet people would call those games JRPGs to distinguish them from the first-person genres (both maze-crawl and free-roam), and then sub-qualify them as SRPGs, Rogue-likes, and so forth.

Now, never once in my entire time playing those games did I ever think, "Wow, this is like Zelda!" These games existed as completely different genres to me, on account of Zelda simply being an action game played at a top-down perspective. Taking your (FAST's) parameters, we would have to consider River City Ransom to be an RPG (even more-so than Zelda, in that it's less linear, more stat-based, involves random growth values rather than a set increase, and so forth). Yet who do you know that calls River City Ransom an RPG? If we're going to go with popular consensus, it's a glorified beat-em-up. Heck, most people haven't even really played the game, and figure it's just a Double Dragon clone (and certain DD games, incidentally, have a level-up system, but that's neither here nor there).

Of course, there's also the geographic aspect. I know people from other countries that call fighting games, "V.S." games, and anything that isn't Contra or a shmup an "RPG".

And then of course, there is the "Well you don't really Role-Play in any of these games" argument, coupled with the, "Every game is Role-Playing by virtue of the fact that you aren't playing as yourself" argument, neither of which holds any water with me, because most of the people who make them are... I don't know, afraid of brevity and being understood?

 

[CrimzonEyed]

Zelda have been called a RPG?

I always though it was action adventure.

 

[Originality]

Zelda 2 was pretty much an RPG. But, as with others before, I don't care what it's labelled. I liked the Zelda series. I like RPGs. I also like RTS, FPS, action, adventure, platformers, puzzlers... ok, let's make this simple. I like fun games. Any further thought into the matter takes away the fun in gaming.

 

[Deleted member 158512]

Zelda 2 was pretty much an RPG. But, as with others before, I don't care what it's labelled. I liked the Zelda series. I like RPGs. I also like RTS, FPS, action, adventure, platformers, puzzlers... ok, let's make this simple. I like fun games. Any further thought into the matter takes away the fun in gaming.

Yeah, but fun is objective. Genres are (or at least try to be, but for a few sticklers) objective, and are used to convey information. To further what I said earlier, if someone tells me that their favorite RPG is Zelda, there is a giant disconnect in my mind - Has this person ever played what I consider to be an RPG? Have they played every type of game, and just mentally combines them all into straight action (point scoring) and non-straight action (anything with a menu)? I'm not going to rail on them about how Zelda isn't an RPG because he's clearly got his own definition at this point; though if I were to recommend an RPG to him, I wouldn't have any idea what to say.

 

[Shoat]

When has the criteria for classification as an RPG shifted to "You need to have levels and upgrades and shit."?
That is only a small portion of what makes an RPG.

 

[gamefan5]

When has the criteria for classification as an RPG shifted to "You need to have levels and upgrades and shit."?
That is only a small portion of what makes an RPG.

Gimme one known RPG game that doesn't have that.

 

[Forstride]

Zelda is not an RPG. It's an action-adventure game.

You can get upgrades in shmups, racing games, etc. Does that make those RPGs as well?

 

[Originality]

Monster Hunter is an RPG... no experience or levelling at all, but it has upgrades and (wyvern) shit.

 

[Daemauroa]

on the otherside, God of War III does have an Upgrade system, A level System(sort of for weapons and you can collect stuff to upgrade your health, mana and item) and monsters that get stronger, but it doesn't feel like an average RPG, more like an adventure game, so I think it is mostly the feeling you get from playing the game that determines if it's an RPG or an adventure game.

more on-topic : I do think that zelda is an RPG, because it just feels like it. yea, If you look like the requirements to be named an RPG it isn't but I don't think it really goes that way.