Why sequels suffer and why they succeed

[Black-Ice]

Xiii doesnt suck.
What sucks is peoples expectations, memory and gaming sense.
But hey, who am I to complain. Everyone's different.

My lasting quote before I leave this annoying thread?
Sequels dont suck. People's over-active expectations and over-active hipster-ness let them down.

 

[The Milkman]

Xiii doesnt suck.
What sucks is peoples expectations, memory and gaming sense.
But hey, who am I to complain. Everyone's different.

My lasting quote before I leave this annoying thread?
Sequels dont suck. People's over-active expectations and over-active hipster-ness let them down.

HEY! Leave Hipsters out of this, they neva dun nothin wrong to nobody.

 

[Just Another Gamer]

Xiii doesnt suck.
What sucks is peoples expectations, memory and gaming sense.
But hey, who am I to complain. Everyone's different.

My lasting quote before I leave this annoying thread?
Sequels dont suck. People's over-active expectations and over-active hipster-ness let them down.

So expecting a sequel to be everything good about the last game with all new and better features etc is wrong now?
Sequels are good if done right I mean looking at P3 and P4, P4 took the best parts of 3 and expanded on it with an improvement in gameplay with a good story to go with it now look at XIII and compare it to any FF before it and its easy to say the older one is better and honestly thats not right, it should be the older one is good but the new one improved on it and is better.

Your right sequels don't suck UNLESS they are poorly made then they really suck.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

Xiii doesnt suck.
What sucks is peoples expectations, memory and gaming sense.
But hey, who am I to complain. Everyone's different.

My lasting quote before I leave this annoying thread?
Sequels dont suck. People's over-active expectations and over-active hipster-ness let them down.

Disliking XIII doesn't really fit into the "hipsters don't like sequels" category since almost every Final Fantasy game is basically standalone. Seeing as the stories are independent and the battle system is changing a lot between games, it's not a cookie cutter sequel series.

 

[Black-Ice]

Xiii doesnt suck.
What sucks is peoples expectations, memory and gaming sense.
But hey, who am I to complain. Everyone's different.

My lasting quote before I leave this annoying thread?
Sequels dont suck. People's over-active expectations and over-active hipster-ness let them down.

So expecting a sequel to be everything good about the last game with all new and better features etc is wrong now?
Sequels are good if done right I mean looking at P3 and P4, P4 took the best parts of 3 and expanded on it with an improvement in gameplay with a good story to go with it now look at XIII and compare it to any FF before it and its easy to say the older one is better and honestly thats not right, it should be the older one is good but the new one improved on it and is better.

Your right sequels don't suck UNLESS they are poorly made then they really suck.

Yeah see.
XIII is better than XI and IX and III
but thats my OPINION, and thats what I fear people are missing. I CAN say Xiii was miles better than those 3 because its my opinion.
It may be a common opinion that XIII sucks but it isnt fact. The rating of any game isn't fact because ratings are based of opinion. What I dont like is people preaching opinion like its fact.

And besides, every FF tries to be a little different and XIII was the big step up to current gen consoles, of course it wont be as good as if they were accustomed to current gen console play and expectations.
I remember not liking tekken 4 much, but i realise it was coz they were experimenting with gameplay after upgrading from ps1 to ps2.
While I respect everyones opinions, I just feel that people are bullying the game with un-realism. And its not just xiii
Its harder to make games these days with the possibilities expanding and the market getting waaay more violent and expectant.

We remember games that were older for being better because the overall quality back then was alot lower and it was easier to make games that satisfied an audience who werent accustomed to the vaster possibilities of today.
Not to mention when you are a kid, EVERYTHING looks bloddy amazing.

/sorry am I ranting a bit?

 

[DoubleeDee]

All the fable sequels fail.
Fable 1 was amazing, the others failedddd.

 

[Just Another Gamer]

Xiii doesnt suck.
What sucks is peoples expectations, memory and gaming sense.
But hey, who am I to complain. Everyone's different.

My lasting quote before I leave this annoying thread?
Sequels dont suck. People's over-active expectations and over-active hipster-ness let them down.

So expecting a sequel to be everything good about the last game with all new and better features etc is wrong now?
Sequels are good if done right I mean looking at P3 and P4, P4 took the best parts of 3 and expanded on it with an improvement in gameplay with a good story to go with it now look at XIII and compare it to any FF before it and its easy to say the older one is better and honestly thats not right, it should be the older one is good but the new one improved on it and is better.

Your right sequels don't suck UNLESS they are poorly made then they really suck.

Yeah see.
XIII is better than XI and IX and III
but thats my OPINION, and thats what I fear people are missing. I CAN say Xiii was miles better than those 3 because its my opinion.
It may be a common opinion that XIII sucks but it isnt fact. The rating of any game isn't fact because ratings are based of opinion. What I dont like is people preaching opinion like its fact.

And besides, every FF tries to be a little different and XIII was the big step up to current gen consoles, of course it wont be as good as if they were accustomed to current gen console play and expectations.
I remember not liking tekken 4 much, but i realise it was coz they were experimenting with gameplay after upgrading from ps1 to ps2.
While I respect everyones opinions, I just feel that people are bullying the game with un-realism. And its not just xiii
Its harder to make games these days with the possibilities expanding and the market getting waaay more violent and expectant.

We remember games that were older for being better because the overall quality back then was alot lower and it was easier to make games that satisfied an audience who werent accustomed to the vaster possibilities of today.
Not to mention when you are a kid, EVERYTHING looks bloddy amazing.

/sorry am I ranting a bit?

No one is missing that YOU personally think XIII is a good game but the general consensus among JRPG fans is that XIII is horrible compared to majority of the FF series while the others because I personally think from 8-11 aren't that good is more accepted as opinion because it got if i'm right average reviews.
The only one I see trying to enforce that XIII isn't crap as fact is you since no one here as argued that sequels are shit because they are sequels.

Persona changed alot from P2 to P3 when it moved to the PS2 and it got a whole lot better so it isn't that people aren't accustomed to the current gen its how the game is presented in its gameplay, story, characters etc and those play a big part in how the game does. Yes Persona isn't FF but they had to make transitions as well to keep up to date with the current gen and they seem to have no problems doing that.
I think I said before that its not unreal to expect a sequel to be everything its predecessor is and more and the only thing I really saw improve with XIII is the graphics.

It is only better if you have played it before. I haven't played any Persona game before getting my PSP and having P3P and I then played all the PSX games before it and then the updated releases on the PSP and I can honestly say I loved them even with poor graphics and a different gameplay style, this was last year when I bought a PSP. This just depends on how the games are really and if the same effort has been put into it each release then they would still be fun regardless of when they're played.

 

[Deleted_171835]

Batman: Arkham City is an example of a good sequel. Instead of following in the same style as Arkham Asylum, they made it more open than linear, made the combat even better and gave it a more fleshed out story.

Super Mario Galaxy 2 is another example. The first one is amazing but this tops even that with new levels, better camera, new power-ups/characters (Yoshi!) and even a revamped hub world. Even if the game plays like more of the same, it's still really stellar.

Assassin's Creed 2 is the perfect example, though. They took all the criticism for the first one (repetition for the most part, poor mission-design) and fixed all of that. They turned a pretty shit game into a really good game with the sequel.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Xiii doesnt suck.
What sucks is peoples expectations, memory and gaming sense.
But hey, who am I to complain. Everyone's different.

My lasting quote before I leave this annoying thread?
Sequels dont suck. People's over-active expectations and over-active hipster-ness let them down.

XI? XI was a great game, what are you smoking?

I've played nearly all the other FF games. I say nearly because obviously there's one or two that I missed, like Final Fantasy Tactics on the GBA I think it was.

But still, XIII is not a good Final Fantasy game. When did it become acceptable to play through a 30 hour tutorial? The game is ridiculously linear with no where to explore like past Final Fantasy titles. It's all just one big long ass hallway that you're going through. The battle system is broken and is garbage. And Summons turning into vehicles? Are you kidding me? What the hell?

I have no problem with the open type combat they used, hell, Tales of Vesperia did a fantastic job with it, but Final Fantasy XIII just did not pull it off at all. It's the blacksheep of the franchise. XIII-2 didn't even fix it, and now they're coming out with a third installment? What the hell? Not to mention, let's not kid ourselves, the story in XIII is absolute shit and a clusterfuck of a mess.

 

[emigre]

I spent over forty hours on Final Fantasy XIII. And I still have no idea what the story was about.

 

[Smuff]

I have never played a FF title in my life.
Ever.

 

[Deleted_171835]

I have never played a FF title in my life.
Ever.

Almost the same for me. The only Final Fantasy game I played was FFV and I didn't even complete that.

Although I did say I was going to start playing through them. Too many games in my backlog...

 

[JulietStMoon]

I have never played a FF title in my life.
Ever.

I really TRIED to get through the older 8 and 16 bit ones, and I just can't. I really honestly try, but I just can't get into them. And I tried 7 once, and absolutely hated it. I couldn't get through more than an hour or so of it. Maybe I'll give them another chance sometime in the future. Honestly, the only Square titles I ever liked were Chrono Trigger and Einhander.

 

[Black-Ice]

Why do I bother?
Not quite sure.

Tekken Tag 2 is a sequel and the best sequel the series has ever made.
Awesome game
I lose my faith in humanity if people disagree with that at least

 

[JulietStMoon]

I lose my faith in humanity if people disagree with that at least

If disagreements over what video games are good make you lose faith in humanity, you must REALLY have zero faith in humanity right now.

 

[emigre]

I have never played a FF title in my life.
Ever.

I really TRIED to get through the older 8 and 16 bit ones, and I just can't. I really honestly try, but I just can't get into them. And I tried 7 once, and absolutely hated it. I couldn't get through more than an hour or so of it. Maybe I'll give them another chance sometime in the future. Honestly, the only Square titles I ever liked were Chrono Trigger and Einhander.

The 8 bit titles are a waste of time. The bare bone story and repetitive gameplay have meant the games really haven't aged well. Tne 16 bit titles have some more staying power but to play them afresh now, I say fall into the trap of being seemingly rote and generic. I spent around fifteen hours on FFVI and just gave up on it because the melodrama just hit a point of stupidity.

My favorite FF game is FF VII mind. I put that down to my love of the cyberpunk setting. Which was just awesome, I honestly wish the entire game was just set in Midgar. It would have been cool as fuck.

 

[Black-Ice]

I lose my faith in humanity if people disagree with that at least

If disagreements over what video games are good make you lose faith in humanity, you must REALLY have zero faith in humanity right now.

I do
And im proud of it
Tekken is my fav game series thoughm and they did very well with Tag 2

 

[Taleweaver]

@OP: isn't it a bit unfair to compare Final Fantasy...what? Thirteen? To unchartered two and three? the main problem with sequels is that everyone is always comparing them to previous titles. It has to be improved every time yet stay close to the original formula. That gets progressively harder over time. Of course it has to adapt to what is becoming standard in the gaming world (e.g.: the wiimote plus in Skyward sword), but that's not an easy task to keep the audience entertained.
Also: lots of things are hindsight. On hindsight, Mario 64 was a success. On hindsight, Sonic's 3D adventures weren't. While making those, it's all pretty much a gamble. It's easy to praise unchartered now that they can still get away with doing the exact thing over and over again. I'm more curious how the series will fare once they hit their seventh or eighth game.


My view on sequels is that they usually fall flat if they start doing things radically different.
-I absolutely HATED C&C tiberian sun. After red alert, I expected fights on land, sea and in the air, in a distant kinda-dystopia future. There wasn't a ship to be seen, they went all-out sci-fi (WTF...aliens?) and introduced ridiculously overpowered vehicles for no reason. That killed it (okay, that and the cutscenes that don't address you but some B-actor that's "supposed" to be you).
-Unreal 2...I don't even think it deserves the name to begin with. The exploring part was gone, the music was gone, the weapons were completely different...heck, it wasn't even on the same planet. Honestly...they ditched EVERYTHING that made unreal a great game. If they had given it a different name, nobody would have even noticed a similarity.
-Unreal tournament 3. This is a sad story. UT2003 did things radically different than the original UT, but sorta got away with it. Especially with UT2004, which was what UT2003 should have been. However, these two games had a pretty steep learning curve to become a good player (online, that is). It's good that UT3 toned that down. Unfortunately, they toned it down way too much. That all the tricks like slope dodging of impact jumping were nerfed to nothing was forgivable (at least it evened the battlefield between veterans and newbies). That they got rid of the entire unreal universe as well wasn't so bad either (the singleplayer was so bad it became hilarious...but I'd hate to think what someone who just plays singleplayer would think of it). But the vehicles changed completely (if they had looked at the community for ONE FREAKIN' MINUTE in the last year, they would have found that onslaught wasn't broken...the stock maps just sucked), and not for the better. And the nail on the coffin: it was clearly designed for consoles. It's amazing that a GUI manages to be a factor in how a game plays, but really: it was that ridiculously bad. You couldn't even properly browse for an online game anymore.
Sigh...I'm getting annoyed thinking of it. The tragedy is that without vehicles, regular capture the flag is the best gameplay ever (every map is a masterpiece). But it's near-impossible to properly play it because you have to wade through a retarded GUI to set it up.

Now...for the good sequels:
-starcraft 2. Okay, perhaps not entirely fair, but it IS a sequel. And with the immense popularity of starcraft, it takes balls to even attempt it (try making "soccer 2.0" as popular as how it's played now). But they managed to do it. With great success.
-UT2004. Mentioned above, but worth mentioning. Critics may say that it is just a glorified expansion pack at full price, but I say: if all expansion packs had this kind of content, they DESERVE to be at full price. All the gametypes had just minor tweaks and it shipped with the exact same weapons and maps...but easily doubled the map count (with much better ones) and included two awesome extra modes. If anything: this is how you make a safe sequel: just make sure you include EVERYTHING from the previous one.
-GTA San Andreas. I'm still amazed how fucking HUGE this game is. After GTA 3 and Vice city, you expected more of the same (with a nineties kind of theme). And you more or less got that. And then you got out of San Andreas and it turns out you're only at about one third of what the game actually offers.
-Fallout 3. I remember picking this up with not that much hope. It obviously wasn't going to match up to fallout 1 & 2, wasn't it? I mean...3D? As it turns out...it DID. Fallout 3 is to the series what Mario 64 was to Mario platforming: it kept all the goodies (yes, including the dark humor) and changed the rest. My only gripe is that you get a slow motion death scene for EVERY FREAKIN' PERSON you kill, but that's a pretty minor detail.

Undecided:
Prince of Persia. I'm not going to deny Sands of time was awesome (it certainly is!). But I cannot match it to the original platformer. Yes, it has the same sort of theme, pit traps and antics, but it somehow isn't the same game. The pleasures I had with that were many, but of a completely different kind than the running over falling bridges, grabbing a ledge and climbing up JUST before a trapdoor closes. The swordfigthing also has that "it's also fun, but totally different". I think I'll have to wait until they decide that a platforming Prince of Persia isn't so bad of an idea.

 

[Felipe_9595]

I'm sorry, wat? I read up to the point you said Skyrim was better then Oblivion. How is dull combat, watered-down stats and one-way dungeons better then Oblivion? Oblivion introduced aspects people never thought to put in RPGs such as physics engines for environmental combat, adding things like Block-and-Slash that were prior to, used mostly in Action-Adventure (like Zelda) and fighters. All Skyrim added to the series was pretty graphics and Shouts. Ill keep reading before I say anything else but I felt that needed pointing out.

EDIT: Ok, you got some good points there buddy, I thought you were just hating on RPGs for a second there, till I saw you played LO and FFX (Hell, I don't even like FFX, I think they started sucking after FFIIV) but I don't agree with your points of making a new story with the same features and mechanics. I like a similar game here and there don't get me wrong, but ill strike up an example like Zelda. If EVERY Zelda game was exactly alike (You have the same dungeon running, combat, weapons and such) I would have dropped that shit a long time ago. In fact, to me sometimes its things like gimmicks that offer and bit more fun to the experience. Think of one of Smash Bros or Monster Hunter, if they never added anything to those games from release to release who the hell would play them? I would just stick with Melee and Tri if that was the case. Also, I feel like your making this problem seen nore widespread then just Square. Square is shit now, like Sega, they are running off the fanboy fumes which cant keep them alive forever. But Capcom has been doing similar with Megaman (I mean, look how much he changes so often, BT and Zero were released within a year of each other and they are radically different, still both were great games)

Just to point it out, True, after VII came FF VIII, and it sucked ass, but FF IX blows VII out of the water (But yeah i get your point, square went to shit after X),

 

[ZAFDeltaForce]

Dragon Age 2, in my opinion, was a terrible disappointment. I loved Dragon Age: Origins so damn much for it's story - Killing darkspawn.

Taking majority of the darkspawn away was like a slap on the face for me.