1. Jayinem81

    OP Jayinem81 GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    I know the answer is graphics. That's always the answer. I'm not saying we should still be playing PS2 like graphic games. But I honestly feel that with PS4/Xbox One people should be happy with the graphics. They look fine. I mean you can play a lot of games in 4K and HDR, do you honestly need 8K? Is there something wrong with your eyes? Games do not get better with better graphics. I feel the overall quantity of quality (meaning amount of games that are good) is less than it used to be. Because it takes a company with a lot of money often times to pump out these games, and that leads to companies like EA and Activision pumping out more games that suck. That was on this gen, I fear it will get worse next gen.

    Even from the console makers perspective we all know they don't make any big profits off the consoles themselves but from game sales, so I don't even understand it from there perspective. It is almost a trap that nobody can get out of and smaller companies will get eaten up. I know there's downloadable games but they usually aren't even full length games.

    For example I thought Xbox 360 was a console with hundreds of good games. The Xbox One on the other hand was not even in the same atmosphere quality wise. Obviously I am not talking about graphics. I am talking about the amount of good games.

    I feel the industry is growing stale and a new gen that requires even better graphics is not the solution. But everyone who wants to play video games is pretty much trapped in the cycle, and unless you want to opt out (which means don't buy new consoles and only play old games) you have no choice to participate.

    Just remember this that even if you are 100% on board that we need to push graphics and have a Playstation 5, one day it will be outdated graphics wise too.

    Even if you want to say "game on PC" your PC will one day be outdated from the latest graphics too. The industry is too build around graphics.

    Companies like Rockstar that we have gotten used to depending on are cashing in by remaking games. I mean their big game announced so far for next gen is Grand Theft Auto V. The same game that was on PS3/Xbox 360, then PS4/Xbox One, and now PS5/Scarlett because it's easy money. That's probably great for people who religiously play GTA V online, but for those of us looking for a new single player GTA experience we are left out in the cold at least until they decided to make GTA VI, which will probably be awhile.

    I think there are so many classic games from many years ago that people still love. How many are there from this past gen that people will want to play 10-20 years from now? I can think of a few, but it's way less than it used to be despite better graphics.
     
    Last edited by Jayinem81, Jul 28, 2020
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  2. Tom Bombadildo

    Tom Bombadildo Dick, With Balls
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    A) No, the PS4 Pro/Xbone X don't play "a lot of games in 4k", they play like maybe 5 in native 4k, the rest are just upscaled from lower resolutions.

    B) Resolution doesn't really matter that much in terms of graphical fidelity, so 4k/8k whatever BS the PS5/Sexbox claim isn't important. What is important is that the consoles can take advantage of more advanced game engines, like UE5 as shown off with the PS5, because of their more powerful hardware. The PS4/Xboner don't remotely have the power to pull off the more advanced rendering techniques used in UE5, things like Nanite for better geometry or Lumen for better lighting simply would not run well at all on current gen. There's also framerate to consider as well, EoL current gen games are already struggling to maintain 30fps in most titles, which is unacceptable for certain genres, whereas next generation is finally offering higher framerates (which absolutely matter, regardless whether someone says they "see no difference").

    C) Your perception of less quality games is flawed and corrupted by rose tinted glasses. Maybe you don't like some of the games coming out now, but that doesn't mean they all suddenly turned to shit and no one likes them, it just means your tastes have (or haven't) changed. Gaming has always had it's huge share of shit titles, it's just more apparent now because we have things like the internet to show us how many shit games there actually are. If you went and played all 1700 games in the SNES library, or all 5000 in the PS2, you'd find just as many, if not more, shovelware and garbage games that have no "quality" to them than you would now. If that were the case, games wouldn't be selling the astronomical numbers they currently sell.

    D) New generations are not just about "new graphics", they're about improvements/changes to the entire console ecosystem, either through more powerful hardware or newly developed software. The PS5/Sexbox both plan to eliminate load times (a huge task, considering how advanced games are becoming), the Sexbox at least is revolutionizing the way backwards compatibility should be (still no announcement from the PS5 regarding pre-PS4 BC, but hopefully they follow suit without resorting to using PS Now >.<), the PS5 is introducing a new "3D audio" implementation that (if their promises actually pull through) will finally (I hope) push developers to focus more on audio and sound quality. There's a whole lot more to new generations than just "graphics".


    By your logic, we should've never gone passed Windows XP, cuz hey it was a great OS back then so we don't need anything better now! And cars should just stick to being steel framed death traps because boy I sure like the look and feel of old vehicles, why do we need new vehicles all the time??
     
  3. duwen

    duwen Old Man Yoshi
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    Honestly... we don't, but there are so many people that only seem to care about framerates and resolution that it doesn't matter that they're ostensibly playing games that would be just as playable on 20 year old hardware.
    ...but twenty years ago we were at least getting new gaming experiences.
     
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  4. Physix

    Physix Member
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    Simple answer: Because money.
    M$ and Sony are multi billion corporations always looking to make money somehow.

    The better question is: Will people actually buy new consoles for such an expensive price (500+ $)?
    Atleast Microsoft took a good step forward with their gamepass subscription.
     
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  5. Jayinem81

    OP Jayinem81 GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    People will buy them, but I think deep down a lot of people are only buying them because the alternative is to not be able to play new games. Then one day we'll be the same position where we need a new console because "PS5 graphics sucks." I made my stance very clear I said we should be past PS2 graphics. But the leap between PS3 and PS4 was not near as large, and it will likely be even less next gen. Some are mindless sheep though and if Sony and Microsoft told them we need a new console every 12-18 months they'd still buy into it. Nintendo Switch is far from perfect but at least Nintendo's main goal is not about just pushing graphics and framerate.
     
  6. replicashooter

    replicashooter GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    Before posting next time ask yourself:

    Why do we need another thread?



    There's your answer.
     
  7. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer
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    Upgrading hardware generally does two things

    1) Allows the limits to be pushed, especially if those limits are already being pushed by prebaked code you can download and play with. I am not sure things are creaking quite as hard as they once might have been, or requiring so many creative workarounds, as they were towards the end of the PS360 but there is something at least. If said hardware speed boost comes almost for free as building a new silicon fab is cheaper than upgrading the old one, not to mention keeping the old one running is getting more expensive as things start to wear out, and people have continued making things faster as a matter of course then even better.
    2) Allows those that just want to give it a go less effort. For instance I read stuff like http://www.coranac.com/tonc/text/asm.htm and http://problemkaputt.de/gbatek.htm for fun, have done for years. I reckon I can make the GBA sing but I charge accordingly. Any kid with a copy of RPG maker on a PC could make something look just as shiny as anything I could do on the GBA (even more so if given artists and whatnot), said kid will never have their thing run on a GBA (never mind something older still) but who cares as there are loads of devices with that.
    Or if you prefer what once might have taken a hardcore physics PHD sporting developer a year to write some seriously fun code to handle might now be "meh, just render out every frame and pipe them in as there is enough bandwidth and storage space" by those kinds of small devs that have a smaller budget.

    This is not to say I don't agree with some of the things brought up -- maps seem smaller these days than they once were, the focus on human shaped enemies for engines has in turn impacted some of the characters we see, people spending all the money for reasons unknown to me (if I go look at the list of critical darlings each year, much less those still known a few years after their release how many were made on a shoestring budget?) in turn mean the marketing department demands it be watered down into mush that neither challenges nor offends anybody to try to ensure maximum sales but in turn truly satisfies nobody. The mid tier developers that usually had all the interesting ideas do seem to have got thinner on the ground with each passing year (you mention the 360 vs xbone and yeah the 360 had all sorts of fun experimental stuff but compared to the PS2 it is a desert).
    I sit here at the end of this generation having not played all that much but frankly I don't think I have missed out on anything, nor am I sure if I was to put together a collection of things I like (maybe a desert island game collection type scenario) it would amount to much. Fire up my 360 and older and still have a great time though and the games don't look or feel all that different (moving a gun around on a N64 and PS1 feels very different to the 360, but PS4 or xbone maybe has some nicer reload animations and a poly budget to skip some of the in camera tricks seen on older devices).
     
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  8. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
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    Erm...who is this "we" you're talking about? Because I sure as heck am not among that flock.

    While perhaps a bit shortsighted, I...somewhat agree. If game developers can't create their games on the current platform because "hardware limitations", the problem is on their end. Other posters have a point that the increase in horsepower allows for more than just graphics (shorter loading times due to SSD, to name one), but to me, the general point still stands. Meaning: it's still (mostly) about souped up graphics.

    However, you draw the conclusion that the entire industry is becoming stale. I disagree with that. There's plenty of innovation to be found...at best not among the AAA developers (I've stopped giving a shit what they produced years ago. Their audience is with the most common denominator, and I'm not part of that(1)).

    I'm gaming on a PC that's about 8 years old. I probably won't be able to play some games I don't care about at highest graphics, but so what? I'm more than able to increase my backlog with new games, which in itself proves you wrong.

    Okay...sorry, but can I get a link to some threads about PS4 owners complaining about the graphics? :unsure: From what I see, it's sony and microsoft promoting a fancier console(2). That in itself gets gamers dreaming. If you ask me, they're driving supply, not coming through on demand.




    (1): I know my taste in video gaming. As long as AAA-producers produce something else, I'll shop elsewhere
    (2): well...that's their intention. But this thread isn't about whether or not that black box console constitute to being "fancy"
     
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  9. MrCokeacola

    MrCokeacola The Xbox Guy
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    Lots of games today could still run on a PS3/360 if they were downgraded enough. We don't need newer consoles but people like to upgrade and have newer more advanced things.

    Nothing is stopping you from playing older consoles and games like many people on GBAtemp do.
     
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  10. wezlyons

    wezlyons Member
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    I miss the days of a new console blowing me away.

    NES to SNES - amazing difference
    Going from SNES to N64/PS1 - amazing difference
    N64/PS1 to DC/PS2 e.t.c. - amazing difference

    Things are that advanced these days that the difference between the generations is nowhere near as pronounced.
    That's why things like haptic feed back triggers are being marketed as a selling point.
    The actual games are not going to be any better or look much different than they do on the XB1/PS4.
     
  11. MrCokeacola

    MrCokeacola The Xbox Guy
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    Technology has stagnated since around the late 2000s. You could still use a computer today from 2008. But in 2008 a computer from 1996 would have been very out of date.
     
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  12. spectral

    spectral GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    The thing I want most is better and more importantly consistent performance. While they look nice enough a lot of games run like crap with the frame rate up and down all over the place on the current consoles. Of course we wont get it, they'll just add in more fancy effects and we'll get the same crappy performance we get now.
     
    Last edited by spectral, Aug 9, 2020
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  13. Goku1992A

    Goku1992A GBAtemp Maniac
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    Yes and No is probably the best answer

    Yes because you'll get the 4K Graphics with the 120 FPS without having to shell out $1000+ to get a similar experience on a gaming PC. (If you care about graphics) $500 isn't a bad price to pay.

    No because on last gen we didn't really get the full potential of the PS4/Xbox One also we had gotten a PS4 Pro and a Xbox One X that can currently run 4K at 30-40FPS on PS4 Pro and 60 FPS on the Xbox One X. From what I saw is they are rushing out a product for next gen and currently the games look more like PS4 Pro / Xbox One X type graphics I really cant see the difference. Maybe in 2 years we will see the true nature of next gen but at $70 per game after paying $500 for a system is kinda pricey. I just bought 6 gamestop for $60 from games that was on sale for my PS4 and my Xbox One S. I see why people want to upgrade since the hardware is getting old but I feel next gen need to be offering more than just gaming. I really want Microsoft to include a windows mode on the series-X.

    I'm not getting a next gen until maybe 2 or 3 years but when I do get one 9/10 times I'll get a Series-X since they will upscale all of my older games idk if Sony will do that on the PS5 it was never confirmed with them. If I don't get a Series-X I'll probably get a better gaming computer to enjoy next gen.
     
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  14. Pokemon_Tea_Sea_Jee

    Pokemon_Tea_Sea_Jee GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    ps5 ssd, game changer.

    60fps

    new 3d audio
     
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  15. Moon164

    Moon164 GBAtemp Fan
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    PS4 and Xbox One are hardware from 2013 (7 years ago), unfortunately they have become outdated consoles, the Xbox One base for example already suffers to run some games of the current generation even in 720p, the PS4 although still enduring well has also suffered a little from it, the most recent case I can mention is the Marvel Avengers beta, it runs perfectly on the PS4Pro, but has steady drops to 20fps on the Base PS4.

    Like it or not, new consoles with more modern architecture and more powerful hardware were needed.

    But if it is necessary for you, then you decide, being honest I never got so excited about graphics and etc... if the game runs at 30fps/720p for me it's great, I intend to stay with PS4 Slim for a few more years, he still pleases me and there’s a lot that I haven’t played yet and it’s not like I have a lot of options, I live in Brazil, consoles here are stupidly expensive, I won’t be able to get a PS5 anytime soon, I just hope not abandon this generation so fast because many people are in the same situation as mine.

    The Temtem case that was canceled for the PS4/Xbox One to be released on the PS5/Xbox Series X already made me afraid of this happening, at least for the indie games since most small businesses don't have enough money to support it to a game on two generations of consoles.
     
  16. Clydefrosch

    Clydefrosch GBAtemp Guru
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    I just wish they didn't bother with 8k to keep framerates at 60.
    Instead, studios will make mediocre 8k at 30fps
     
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  17. voddy

    voddy No Title Available
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    I wouldnt need another console if ps4 had enough power for VR. If ps5 has enough to run vr nice, Smooth and above 480p i m totally fine. But look at resident evil 7 VR. Oh my gosh....
     
  18. koohiiwonomimasu69

    koohiiwonomimasu69 Advanced Member
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    I am a graphics whore and I want my games to run at at least 1080p 60fps.
     
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  19. Boesy

    Boesy GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    For me, 360/PS3 was where gaming reached it's graphical potential. I was and am happy with the hardware on those consoles.

    Now, PS4/XO and PS5/XS just improve upon better graphics and framerate. You don't see a graphical jump from SD to HD like you did with PS2 to PS3.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Going from PS2 to PS3 was a really awesome upgrade because the graphics were in HD, but now all are, so.. eh.

    Those who went from Xbox to Xbox 360 probably weren't all that blown away since Xbox graphics looked pretty dang nice, it was like they were playing early Xbox 360 games.

     
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  20. koohiiwonomimasu69

    koohiiwonomimasu69 Advanced Member
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    I would argue that in the long run SNES to Nintendo 64 was a downgrade. The Nintendo 64 has some of my favourite games on it but I would not play them on actual hardware today. Sub 30 fps games feel uncomfortable to play. Low resolution 3D games combined with blurry textures and composite video look too blurry. Nintendo 64 games have not aged well.

    1:22 to 1:42 illustrates my point.


    At the time switching to 3D was the right decision. Nintendo would have been critisised for being primitive if they released 2D games on their next-gen console. But now A Link to the Past looks way better than Ocarina of Time. Wind Waker makes a good analogy here. At the time the game was critisised for its cell-shaded art style but aged far better than other games of its time and is now revered for it. Yoshi's Island demonstrates that a bad 3D system can produce amazing 2D graphics.
    The PS3 and Xbox 360 support HD resolutions and digital video which is a big plus but I still wouldn't play them today. This is largely because they struggle to maintain 30fps but also because they don't have enough power to realise developers' artistic visions.

     
    Last edited by koohiiwonomimasu69, Aug 15, 2020
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