What simple thing could lead to DS emulation?

Discussion in '3DS - Flashcards & Custom Firmwares' started by SirBeethoven, Mar 26, 2016.

  1. SirBeethoven
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    SirBeethoven 3.145.... something. E=mc2

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    Ok, first off, this thread is not meant to be a thread for nagging people, trolls, or cruelty. This is not for us to go backward- but to go forward. This is not just a simple "no". If you have something bad to say- don't say it at all. This thread is meant for the knowledge of loading DS game SOMEHOW- it doesn't matter HOW we load them- but to be able to load them without Flashcarts.

    Do not say no and just leave. Do not say no because Flashcarts are cheap. Say what you think will work and EXPLAIN. Explain the technical implimentations. We already know that when booting from a DS game, it reads from the slot- so it's probably a hardware problem.

    BUT the 3DS has native DS emulation so we wouldn't need to actually recreate DS emulation-

    We could:

    See what CTR is sending and then patch TWL_Firm to redirect Slot-1 access to possibly the SD or an extra Partition on SD

    How CFW's get access to SD and more information HERE


    RedTWL which is currently already in all RedNANDS!

    Other Ideas

    So what are your thoughts? Remember- this is not a yes or no situation. If you haven't read the rules in the intro- I'd read them now.
     
    Last edited by SirBeethoven, Apr 13, 2016
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  8. Blue_Mew

    Blue_Mew Shiny Mew!

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    It would take too much time and effort which no one would want to go through simply because of the fact, flashcards are cheap.
     
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  9. Ryccardo

    Ryccardo WiiUaboo

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    The "problem" is having to essentially develop a clone of Devolution

    And alternative entrypoints were found and released despite Cubic Ninja being available for cheap, if you know where to look :D

    It's not (only) about the money, it's a matter of pushing the system's capabilities!
     
    Last edited by Ryccardo, Mar 26, 2016
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  10. evandixon

    evandixon PMD Researcher

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    DS games are programmed to read from the cartridge, not the SD. We can launch them (this is the idea behind the R4 Slot 1 Launcher), but we need a cartridge inserted to do anything else.

    IIRC, the GBA "emulator" emulates the GBA cartridge, then actually runs the game on the cartridge. I don't know if something similar could be made for DS games, but if it could, Nintendo would probably have to do it.
     
    Last edited by evandixon, Mar 26, 2016 - Reason: Right... Discord/Skype italics don't work on forums... Changed to bb code
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  11. Ryccardo

    Ryccardo WiiUaboo

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    Yes, they run from RAM (and the agbsave partition is mapped to memory); not all DS games would fit, even though they only need 4 MB of memory!

    ----

    Most GBA games also had no mapper, both ROM and save were directly wired into the bus!
     
    Last edited by Ryccardo, Mar 26, 2016
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  12. SirBeethoven
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    SirBeethoven 3.145.... something. E=mc2

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    We could reprogram TWL_Firm to act how Arm9LoaderHax works

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    We'd only be running one game at a time though
     
  13. The Real Jdbye

    The Real Jdbye Always Remember 30/07/08

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    It's not as easy as you think. The sad truth is, anyone in the scene who is skilled enough to patch TWL_FIRM to load games/saves from SD is against piracy. CFW has hardly progressed at all because the CFW devs are not skilled enough to figure out things on their own without help.
     
  14. haipro2001

    haipro2001 Advanced Member

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    Vc injection....
     
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  15. SirBeethoven
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    SirBeethoven 3.145.... something. E=mc2

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    Could someone like Apache Thunder and some others figure it out?

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    I wish it were that simple
     
  16. dubbz82

    dubbz82 GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    The best viable stab at this we might have would be on n3ds via an emulator, although I dunnno if even the n3ds has enough power to push a ds emulator properly. As for your two suggestions in the initial post, they're not really viable (or at least not really viable in the relatively near future) as others have said, for the moment if you want DS games, buy a flash cart, because ds loading from the ds mode might very well be months, if not years off yet (unless someone works out vc injection).
     
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  17. Apache Thunder

    Apache Thunder I have cameras in your head!

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    Right now the closest you'll get is creating "shortcut" applications that launch a game from an R4 which is very doable. I recently confirmed DLDI capable NTR mode homebrew can access storage on original R4 cards. So you could create a launcher that sends a command to a rom manager on the R4 (one that has argv support maybe. Perhaps some special version of Moonshell or something. Not sure if WoodR4 supports this) to start a specific game.

    Not even sure the current rom managers for R4 support this. In that case, have fun programming a new rom manager from scratch. While you're at it, you might as well make one for DSi Enhanced games and even allow DSi Enhanced mode to work for such games which is theoretically possible. Say goobye to the rare and expensive iEvolution. It's theoretically possible for an R4 to use DSi Enhanced mode. You just need to program a rom manager that supports it. :P

    hbmenu could be a good starting point for this. I have confirmed if you convert it to CIA compatible SRL that boots in DSi Hybrid mode instead of DSi Exclusive mode, give it R4 DLDI, and install it. It can access and launch things off the R4 (in DSi Enhanced mode!).

    The original rom managers for the R4 don't work properly in DSi Enhanced mode however. Currently hbmenu isn't setup to launch commerical roms....For obvious reasons. The creators of it weren't interested in that. But if you got the programming knowhow, it wouldn't be difficult for you to repurpose it for that. Just don't expect the devs behind hbmenu to help, because they sure as hell won't be happy that you would ba**stardize it for retail rom loading. :P
     
    Last edited by Apache Thunder, Mar 26, 2016
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  18. guisadop

    guisadop GBAtemp Regular

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    Nintendont 3ds when?

    Also, nintendont took quite some time to appear on the Wii scene (in fact, I believe it was only released after the Wii was discontinued)
     
    Last edited by guisadop, Mar 26, 2016
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  19. Swiftloke

    Swiftloke Hwaaaa!

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    Here's the problem at present: DS games run on bare metal, like the Wii. There's no kernel overseeing everything the game does, so the games program read/write access directly to the cartridge. The developers of DS games never accounted for DS games being run from an external source, so they never wrote code to accommodate for it. Perhaps we could have a modified TWL-FIRM with a kernel set up to redirect cart access requests to the SD card, but that's far, far more complicated than it sounds (and too much to write out on my phone :P). But, like The Real Jdbye said, no one skilled enough to write one is going to. Don't ask me.
     
    Last edited by Swiftloke, Mar 26, 2016
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  20. Robz8

    Robz8 Coolest of TWL

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    ARM11 is not used much in TWL_FIRM, mostly for screen scaling and adjusting touch positions, so theoretically the ARM11 can redirect cartridge reads/writes to SD Card.
     
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  21. artur3004

    artur3004 GBAtemp Fan

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    As I know, ARM11 has no direct SD access, only arm9 does
     
  22. The Real Jdbye

    The Real Jdbye Always Remember 30/07/08

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    Maybe eventually, but this is much more complex than anything done previously with CFW. The most complicated thing with CFW right now is emuNAND, the rest are just simple memory patches. Not counting NTR-CFW, which is pretty complex. cell9 could probably accomplish this, but he is anti-piracy.
     
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  23. hellionz

    hellionz GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Buy a nds flashcards pls. ...is ridiculous waste sceners energy and time on something already achieved with flashcards.

    Greetings
     
  24. SirBeethoven
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    SirBeethoven 3.145.... something. E=mc2

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    That was the most polite way someone could say that- congrats to you :)
     
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  25. CeeDee

    CeeDee hm?~

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    @The Real Jdbye summed it up better than I could - anyone with the knowledge to do such a thing refuses to, because piracy.

    I would say it's possible but won't be done until we get better knowledge of how TWL_FIRM works.
     
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  26. NekoMichi

    NekoMichi Retro Collector

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    I'm not a developer, so this could be total nonsense/impossible, but here's my idea:

    Take a genuine DSiWare app and somehow inject the launcher from a DS flash cart into it so that when you launch the DSiWare it loads the flash cart menu instead. Then, modify that flash cart's launcher to read information from the 3DS on-board SD card as if it were the mSD inside the flash cart. That way, you could have a "simulated" DS flash cart running on the 3DS without having actual flash cart hardware.

    Of course, I don't know how these things work and this could be impossible.
     
    Last edited by NekoMichi, Mar 26, 2016
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