Hacking TSEC hacking challenge

[Deleted-471350]

A few months ago since the TSEC SMMU bypass possibility was revealed, I started working on that as a fun CTF exercise. Two days later I got it working and could not believe how easy and simple it was to extract the 6.2.0 TSEC root key.

This time I'm trying to see if TSEC can be cracked for any firmware, by going after the TSEC code authentication and csecrets.
I've already made strides, and managed to:
- Dump all csecrets with ACL mask 0x13
- Access to many priviledged instructions in Heavy Secure (HS) mode, such as csigenc, etc.
- Discovered there is some kind of ROM inside TSEC that performs authentication entry and potentially vulnerable
- Discovered some flaws and oddities that are useful in a chain of attack but don't wish to divulge here in public

But I'm starting to feel like it would be more beneficial to have some collaboration going and bounce ideas.
So that's the reason I'm posting here. To gauge if anyone else is interested in working on the same goal and to get some collaboration going, maybe on Discord or something similar.
This might not be the right forum to do so, so if not, let me know where the right place would be.

Thanks!

 

[jramirex]

Nice try TX

 

[DarknessPlay3r]

Nice try TX

Hahaha wrecked!

Seriously though I agree, I see zero credibility from Bison.

 

[Lacius]

A few months ago since the TSEC SMMU bypass possibility was revealed, I started working on that as a fun CTF exercise. Two days later I got it working and could not believe how easy and simple it was to extract the 6.2.0 TSEC root key.

This time I'm trying to see if TSEC can be cracked for any firmware, by going after the TSEC code authentication and csecrets.
I've already made strides, and managed to:
- Dump all csecrets with ACL mask 0x13
- Access to many priviledged instructions in Heavy Secure (HS) mode, such as csigenc, etc.
- Discovered there is some kind of ROM inside TSEC that performs authentication entry and potentially vulnerable
- Discovered some flaws and oddities that are useful in a chain of attack but don't wish to divulge here in public

But I'm starting to feel like it would be more beneficial to have some collaboration going and bounce ideas.
So that's the reason I'm posting here. To gauge if anyone else is interested in working on the same goal and to get some collaboration going, maybe on Discord or something similar.
This might not be the right forum to do so, so if not, let me know where the right place would be.

Thanks!

A few things:

1. People have already cracked TSEC at the hardware level.
2. The aforementioned exploits affect all Falcon v5 based controllers.
3. Anybody can use sept to deal with TSEC without needing to actually crack TSEC nor possess the keys.

For these reasons and more, there's no reason to worry about cracking TSEC, unless you're TX and don't want to have to include the Atmosphere logo attached to sept because your business model necessitates ignorance of free custom firmwares. Because of that, you're unlikely to find much help here.

 

[Deleted-471350]

Does nobody here do CTFs for fun? Even though this will probably fall on deaf ears, I'm not associated with TX.

 

[Deleted-471350]

A few things:

1. People have already cracked TSEC at the hardware level.
2. The aforementioned exploits affect all Falcon v5 based controllers.
3. Anybody can use sept to deal with TSEC without needing to actually crack TSEC nor possess the keys.

For these reasons and more, there's no reason to worry about cracking TSEC, unless you're TX and don't want to have to include the Atmosphere logo attached to sept because your business model necessitates ignorance of free custom firmwares. Because of that, you're unlikely to find much help here.

Again, see my comment about CTFs. You're missing the point entirely

 

[Lacius]

Does nobody here do CTFs for fun? Even though this will probably fall on deaf ears, I'm not associated with TX.

Again, see my comment about CTFs. You're missing the point entirely

See my post above. What you're asking only serves to do one or more of the following:

1. Give TX a way to bypass sept so they don't reveal to their customers that free CFW is available.
2. Make an exploit public, causing it to be consumed if/when Nintendo releases a hardware revision.
3. Make an exploit public that doesn't just apply to the Switch, causing security issues for various products and people.

If you really want to do this for fun, even though we have sept, do so in a more private setting.

 

[bodefuceta]

Does nobody here do CTFs for fun? Even though this will probably fall on deaf ears, I'm not associated with TX.

That's exactly what someone associated with TX would say.

 

[Adran_Marit]

A few months ago since the TSEC SMMU bypass possibility was revealed, I started working on that as a fun CTF exercise. Two days later I got it working and could not believe how easy and simple it was to extract the 6.2.0 TSEC root key.

This time I'm trying to see if TSEC can be cracked for any firmware, by going after the TSEC code authentication and csecrets.
I've already made strides, and managed to:
- Dump all csecrets with ACL mask 0x13
- Access to many priviledged instructions in Heavy Secure (HS) mode, such as csigenc, etc.
- Discovered there is some kind of ROM inside TSEC that performs authentication entry and potentially vulnerable
- Discovered some flaws and oddities that are useful in a chain of attack but don't wish to divulge here in public

But I'm starting to feel like it would be more beneficial to have some collaboration going and bounce ideas.
So that's the reason I'm posting here. To gauge if anyone else is interested in working on the same goal and to get some collaboration going, maybe on Discord or something similar.
This might not be the right forum to do so, so if not, let me know where the right place would be.

Thanks!

I highly disagree with this, considering tsec is already owned, having that information public will just urge nintendo to improve security more and bring major changes to ver8 to block cfw again

 

[Space_Goddess_Samus_Aran]

I highly disagree with this, considering tsec is already owned, having that information public will just urge nintendo to improve security more and bring major changes to ver8 to block cfw again

i highly agree with that. i mean why make that public. so that TX can use it or ninty will patch or imrove security more in v8?

 

[8BitWonder]

I think @Lacius has summed it up pretty well.

Making an exploit of this nature public would be irresponsible at best, considering how many devices may be vulnerable.

 

[SciresM]

Does nobody here do CTFs for fun? Even though this will probably fall on deaf ears, I'm not associated with TX.

This thread absolutely reads like you're a TX employee, though obviously you could just be a random guy. In the unlikely event you're the latter...

A public TSEC cracking effort would be unwise with Mariko on the horizon. I think most people here are cognizant of that.

TSEC hax'll be released once hardware revisions aren't an immediate worry, the last time an important bug went public (RCM), future switch models became unable to use it. Nobody wants that.

Long term planning is a good idea

 

[Deleted-471350]

fun, even though we have sept, do so in a more private setting.

With my post I did not intend to have exploit dicussions out in public. It is about finding interested people with the same feel for a challenge, to setup some private room to discuss these things.

And where did I even hint about making exploits public? If I did, this is not the intention.

You may not believe it, but there are still people who just care about a good hacking challenge.

This thread absolutely reads like you're a TX employee, though obviously you could just be a random guy. In the unlikely event you're the latter...

A public TSEC cracking effort would be unwise with Mariko on the horizon. I think most people here are cognizant of that.

TSEC hax'll be released once hardware revisions aren't an immediate worry, the last time an important bug went public (RCM), future switch models became unable to use it. Nobody wants that.

Long term planning is a good idea

I agree, and the intent is not to publish everything out in the open. Mind if I ask you a few questions about TSEC?

 

[chrisrlink]

you said falcon board right that sounds familiar.....xbox360? and quick question @SciresM can the Tsec attack with another hax be used on ipatched units? just curious

 

[Adran_Marit]

you said falcon board right that sounds familiar.....xbox360?

Falcon is the name of the security processor chip afaik

 

[chrisrlink]

true and i thought falcon chips were used in the xb360S models heres info http://beta.ivc.no/wiki/index.php/Xbox_360_Revisions#Falcon

 

[Adran_Marit]

true and i thought falcon chips were used in the xb360S models heres info http://beta.ivc.no/wiki/index.php/Xbox_360_Revisions#Falcon

Pretty sure with the xbox falcon is the console code name like jasper, but it could use the falcon chip as well

 

[Space_Goddess_Samus_Aran]

as far as i know falcon was the codename of x360 s and jasper of the first model

 

[gizmomelb]

Does nobody here do CTFs for fun? Even though this will probably fall on deaf ears, I'm not associated with TX.

nope, the majority of people here are clueless end users (like myself) who have never done any development at all.

 

[_hexkyz_]

A few months ago since the TSEC SMMU bypass possibility was revealed, I started working on that as a fun CTF exercise. Two days later I got it working and could not believe how easy and simple it was to extract the 6.2.0 TSEC root key.

This time I'm trying to see if TSEC can be cracked for any firmware, by going after the TSEC code authentication and csecrets.
I've already made strides, and managed to:
- Dump all csecrets with ACL mask 0x13
- Access to many priviledged instructions in Heavy Secure (HS) mode, such as csigenc, etc.
- Discovered there is some kind of ROM inside TSEC that performs authentication entry and potentially vulnerable
- Discovered some flaws and oddities that are useful in a chain of attack but don't wish to divulge here in public

But I'm starting to feel like it would be more beneficial to have some collaboration going and bounce ideas.
So that's the reason I'm posting here. To gauge if anyone else is interested in working on the same goal and to get some collaboration going, maybe on Discord or something similar.
This might not be the right forum to do so, so if not, let me know where the right place would be.

Thanks!

That ship has sailed. The CTF is over. Go home, son. /s

@SciresM already explained it pretty well, but here's the thing: if you look around a bit you can easily tell this place is mainly oriented for the end user.
In fact, the IRC and Discord channels for more technical discussions are publicly advertised and are very easy to find. But you've tried them already haven't you?

Please refute all you want, but remember this: nothing is truly anonymous and darknet hosting is no exception.