• Friendly reminder: The politics section is a place where a lot of differing opinions are raised. You may not like what you read here but it is someone's opinion. As long as the debate is respectful you are free to debate freely. Also, the views and opinions expressed by forum members may not necessarily reflect those of GBAtemp. Messages that the staff consider offensive or inflammatory may be removed in line with existing forum terms and conditions.

The Media and Videogames

Jiehfeng

The One
OP
Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,498
Trophies
2
Age
22
Location
netti netti.
Website
www.youtube.com
XP
6,991
Country
Sri Lanka
except this wasnt the media. Republicans started this one. To just scapegoat the media for what politicians are saying is dishonest.
if anything for once a lot of well known people in the media have come out decrying this point as bullshit.

True, it's mostly the politicians and we should focus on the source. But I'm pretty sure Fox News is on the side of the politicians on this one, they always has been. I for one am pretty sure in the last century the media (mostly Fox iirc) themselves also were vocal about them being against videogames and such. There's plenty of old videos on YouTube like this.
 

notimp

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
5,782
Trophies
1
XP
4,405
Country
Laos
The last postings in this thread are just plain stupid.

I just made the point, that videogames are part of the reason why mass shootings happen more often. But the connection isnt strong enough, to ban something thats done recreationally by most people in a country today.

And even if it were strong (social media and deteriorating mental health), if something is popular enough, you don't do anything about it. ("When the NRA was stronger - you would never have really thought about banning automatic rifles as a solution." - stipulation.)

All that you are doing is saying -

I love me videogames.
I feel good, when playing videogames.
What I feel good about, cant be an issue.
People who are looking into this shouldnt look at what I feel good about.
They should start looking at other causes.
Yes they should ban the causes.
Yes.
Yes.
I feel good.

If you'd understand how stupid this argument is, you wouldnt make those threads all the time.

I guess the NRA uses the same argument on their side.

The issue is culture here. Videogames are part of it. If your society would be structured differently - it would be less of an issue.

You can't tackle 'the direct causes", because they would be slightly different in many cases.

You are never talking about "solving this issue" because you cant.

You are only ever talking about mitigating it, at which point you don look at "whats causing it", but at what are the catalysts (easy availability of weapons, f.e.).

You still all love your "single issue theories" (maybe three issues, three - solve three, as long as it is not me videogames).

You still show no empathy with people that are distressed and have mental issues - even prior to the shooting.

You still get a kink out of hunting down their "manifesto" because you find it fascinating in how they were motivated. But you and your biggest hobby could never have been part of it.

No - but they could have. You have to deal with that.

This is partly what makes these threads so aggrevating. You are just stroking each others emotions, without even trying to understand concepts here.

These threads for the most part are fluff, and we had too many of them already in the recent past. Sadly. Not sadly because "tha media blaims me videogames" but sadly because there were too many damn shootings recently. If we cant go three months, without someone having to make a thread like this - it gets to be an issue in here as well.
-


Special angle media and videogames. Videogames are attention competition for conventional media. Just as conventional media is attention competition for videogames. If there is some embedded sort of rivalry - you, working in media f.e. will pick up on this being an important cause more readily.

Makes sense? What no "fake news media" needed to explain this one. Too boring?
 
Last edited by notimp,

DBlaze

I don't know what i'm doing.
Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
514
Trophies
1
XP
2,482
Country
Netherlands
I remember when world wars happened because germans lost matches in call of duty, feelsbadman.
May as well blame books, movies and music while they're at it.

It's almost like people with mental issues and/or violent tendencies are more prone to doing violent acts or get "inspired" by some sort of medium, shocker.
 
Last edited by DBlaze,

WD_GASTER2

Hated by life itself.
Developer
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
779
Trophies
1
XP
1,838
Country
United States
@notimp
I would give your point more validity but:

chart_2.png


also. You lose an argument the moment you engage in ad-hominems.
I dont agree with your post but i would hardly call it stupid.
 

Xzi

Hi-Fi Beats to Thrash to
Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
15,796
Trophies
2
Location
The Lands Between
Website
gbatemp.net
XP
4,062
Country
United States
I remember when world wars happened because germans lost matches in call of duty, feelsbadman.
May as well blame books, movies and music while they're at it.
Before video games, it was common to blame comic books for juvenile violence and delinquency.

Meanwhile, to state the obvious, multiple studies have definitively found no link between violent video games and increased aggression. Firing a virtual gun does not train you to fire a real gun any more than Ace Attorney prepares you to pass the bar exam.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IncredulousP

notimp

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
5,782
Trophies
1
XP
4,405
Country
Laos
The "you are trying to ban the catalysts - not he causes" point is important as well.

Another word for it would be "fire accelerants", so the gas fuel cans at BBQs.

And at this point it literally becomes: Do videogames make people more violent (No - only temporarily (think Game Over screen)).

Do videogames serve as 'better' (more engaging) backdrops for people with violent fantasies? Probably - but you cant really test that. Because testing populations would be too small and hard to obtain (you cant just go around campus and ask "hey, are you especially interested in violent ideas?") for you to test that.

But then the issue still becomes - do they cause you to overlay those thoughts more often in situations in real life? Do they make you more likely to plan a mass shooting?

No - not in a direct sense. Are they a catalyst?

It probably isn't that great, if your favorite two past times are altering between reading 8chan and playing COD.

So - yes, probably.

Anything in moderation. Videogames usually also dont teach you to hate on migrants, or fellow school children, so you get your motive somewhere else as well. But then again, we dont want to hunt causes here (can be many, many things) - we start at looking to ban catalysts.

Now - 40 years ago with no social media (everyone can publish, everyone can read everything) and no videogames around - having a rifle in every home, might not have lead to mass shootings that often.

But now with social media and videogames around, maybe it would save more lives to reduce the number of rifles, than f.e. reduce the people playing videogames? The self regulation train also has left the station, as digital first and online accounts that can be set up and filled with credit by any minor, give anyone access to whatever they want to watch or play. So its hard to mitigate there as well. Which might be not so bad, if they are in a functioning social environment (family, firends, ..).

It really all becomes a question not about 'whats the cause' but what would be the easiest (more often than best) way to get that number of occurrences down.

And as we arent looking into causes here - videogames, again here are only saved by their popularity. ;) (And by a rather weak proof that they would be harmful or beneficial to people in those situations. Both can be argued. Both is somewhat 'proven' scientifically. (People also use videogames for "ecapism" to deal with tough situations.)) I'm sure Reggie knows that as well.

And what people tasked with regulating this usually do in that instance - is to look at other societies/countries, and look at what seems to work for them. And if really only in the US mass shootings are a real systemic issue and in the rest of the world they are less so, that would lead you to look into something thats US specific - first. You'd think.

That Reggie knows for sure.
 
Last edited by notimp,

AbyssalMonkey

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
362
Trophies
0
Location
Prox
XP
2,268
Country
Antarctica
Engaging in distractionary topics to divert blame to non-existent boogeymen so that politicians can sit on their asses and do nothing. Same old, same old.

Taking these kinds of remarks seriously is basically a waste of time. The video game industry is large enough that any attempt at taking action against the content the games present is going to be an uphill battle.

The esa estimates the annual profit of the game industry in 2017 was $44 billion.

Of that, $7.34 billion was generated from shooter games. (simply add the genre revenue up, it's not explicitly stated)

That's 16% of all revenue generated for that year. This is a scenario where we let the companies do the heavy lifting for us and keep on fighting against things that actually matter. The games companies will not let this revenue be taken from them without a serious fight. An $7 billion dollar revenue stream isn't simply going to be cut off.

This is a scenario where I literally don't care what politicians have to say. I'll look at them, and laugh, and call them fucking conniving idiots and move on and fight against things that really matter.

My 2c and I'm out.
 

tabzer

Enlightened and bored.
Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
4,641
Trophies
1
Age
38
XP
3,565
Country
Japan
People always want to blame something and ban something so that they feel like they are saving the world, preserving their own interest, and stoking their own ego of being morally superior. All they are doing is relegating the violence to different outlets and expressions, perhaps even compounding the intensity of the malice and the net frustration that everyone experiences in the longer run.

They have no interest in understanding the cause as long as blaming things they can regulate validates the powers of their preferred government.
 
Last edited by tabzer,

chrisrlink

Has a PhD in dueling
Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
5,184
Trophies
2
Location
duel acadamia
XP
5,057
Country
United States
yeah imagine if people overthrew the US government just over banned video games as i said (and other's pointed out) banning stuff will just make shit worse because people with violent tendencies will find other avenues to vent their rage even if it means killing others and sense ol' trumptard wants to get rid of mental health services it would make it much worse
 

DeoNaught

I'm here to steal memes and break dreams
Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
2,261
Trophies
0
Location
Constant Fear
Website
Gbatemp.net
XP
2,227
Country
United States
Here's the thing, I do strongly believe it can, if you are messed up in the head enough, about anything can easily influence you. I do not believe it's the catalyst for a shooting though. (not to the extent that Republicans and media are pushing it.)

Why do they never blame the person that actually fired the weapon. it is 100% his/her fault. Not trumps fault, its not the guns fault, not video games/movies/parents, the world ...ect...
Blame the dumb ass deciding to shoot up the place.
it's already been said, but pretty much what influenced the shooter to do such actions.
Like for example.
You see your Classmate Patricia one day, and decide to complement her saying "I really like your red Sweat shirt, you look really good in the color." From that day foward, Patricia feels more comfortable in the color red, and decides to wear it more often. You didn't make her wear red more often, you influenced her to wear red more often. Wearing red was her choice to make.

Does that make sense? They aren't looking what made him do it, they are looking to see what influenced him to do it.

I think Violent games are a great thing, they can be an aggression outlet for people. "I don't want my son/daughter to play these types of games!" then don't let them? "Sometimes I don't even know that it's in there!" This has two possible reasons, Little timmy lied or didn't tell his mom it had it. Two, They being slightly of the wrong mind, decided to just buy a game without looking at the ratings, or asking an employee what the game has inside.

Feel free to point out flaws in my post ^-^
 

Hanafuda

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
4,022
Trophies
2
XP
5,845
Country
United States
I wasn't a fan of government censorship in the 80's when Frank Zappa took on Tipper Gore (Al Gore's wife) over ratings and age restrictions for music because of 'explicit' lyrics, and blaming video games for the actions of a murderer is just as stupid.
 

notimp

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
5,782
Trophies
1
XP
4,405
Country
Laos
One more try at explaining catalysts as a concept. ;)

If you are tasked with making the number go down. And you have lets say 15 different causes. (Xenophobia, hate towards people that might have hurt them in the past, frustrations, power phantasies, wish fulfillment, warped sense of no way out, warped sense of justice, uncopable 'failure'..)

You dont necessarily care about the causes. You care about the aspect that might have pushed the number up. :)

'Easy opportunities to access automatic weapons' - f.e. isn't a cause - but banning it, is a fast and almost guaranteed way of getting victim numbers down.

If videogames could be proven to be conducive to psychotic episodes - banning them, would not be off the table. Currently - there was no conclusive connection found, that they would make you more aggressive if you attended to them for long times, and frequently. They have that effect (aggravating people, inducing 'fight or flight') short term - but after about 20 min it wears off. That said, they can be used to desensitize you towards the act of pulling a trigger when facing crowds, or f.e.peoples reactions in case of a shooting. Those usually werent elements that other forms of media engaged in exploring. Videogames do that readily. If you use shooters to "live out" your violent fantasies this can have a cathartic effect (think Dan Ryckert of Giant Bomb fame stoping to shoot a virtual corps on the ground) - getting it off of your mind - but it can also serve to keep you in those fantasies longer.

So on the individual level - videogames may very well be a part of what made a modern mass shooter. Its just that - many other things may as well.

That stuff is hard to test - in regards to what it does to a "susceptible" mind, because those people are hard to come by for focus groups.

Luckily there are other common factors, that seem to be more worthwile to eliminate than videogames. :)

Getting attention for their 'manifesto' is a huge part of the motivation. Its not a coincident, that so many of them "took to writing one". Being able to publish and spread it so easily is a big factor in the shooters 'internal reward system'.

Growing up in a culture, where weapons are equated with power - and you have 'national hero' tropes, and prices that were awarded for killing people, and getting Media coverage fore it - is a large part of it. but then it probably also is a large part of how to make a country work, that played 'world police' for 70 years now. (Perpetual wars.)

Having easy access to automatic weapons, is a huge part of someone being able to form even the idea in his (almost exclusively men - also says something (its a self image issue)) head. And a huge part of the planing the execution, and the reason, why there are so many victims in many cases.

Some form of media, that might have been a part of how the 'idea' developed and maybe even became palpable - ranks pretty far down the list.

The point here is, that nobody is looking to eliminate causes (too hard), everyone is just trying to make the numbers go down - if possible. People want easy solutions - that someone else can make/come up with for them.

In the current case, you even had a televised political rally in the vicinity of one of the shootings, where people spontaneously started to chant "do something". (No - you do something.. ;) ).

They want easy - single cause solutions - which arent available. And the next best thing is to go after common causes, that might have made the "transition process" from idea to practice more easy. And videogames can be argued to be part of that. Similar to horror movies, or "reading the wrong novel" in the past - but maybe even more acutely so.

Even then they are not the cause. Even then they would not be "what prevents all shootings", but to be honest - people would even take "prevented some of them" at this point. And to bring numbers down - you look at catalysts (what made it easier), not causes. You are looking for single action solutions that have the most impact. And you usually do that by looking at other countries, and there you see - that even though people play videogames there - all other societies have less of a problem with mass shooting than the US - sadly by a large margin.

In the end - we still stay at (the issue has a size of) only double the deaths of people dying from beestings in the US. Which probably is why many politicians, and people can be convinced, that trying to ignore it is actually a viable solution. It probably still could be argued for being the 'best thing to do' all things considered.

But then again - especially school shootings are a real mindfuck, where people give custody to their children away for half a day - with the expectation of safety - so the "you have to do something about this - impulse" is very immediate - and "just ignoring it" seems to be too much to ask, because the entire backdrop situation is so familiar to everyone.

Last time, I kind of ended in one of these threads by stating that at least something is moving this time around, and supporter count for the NRA was, and still is dwindling. So there might be an opening to ban/reduce the number of automatic rifles out there. To at least reduce the number of victims killed per case.

The US at least would not be the first to set such rules in place, far from it.

And to appease the radical libertarian crowd - against something like a dronestrike, those things dont help much anyways. So you dont really 'need them to defend against the state' in the US. You certainly dont need them to defend against neighbors or petty thiefs, either. And if you want to feel big hooting them - then make exceptions for shooting ranges, but keep them there.

Sounds like a common sense idea - but also sounds like a lot of work, and bad blood in trying to establish it. So no one ist too motivated to start it. But then maybe it will happen. Things are moving.
 
Last edited by notimp,

notimp

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
5,782
Trophies
1
XP
4,405
Country
Laos
(in reaction to some of the ideas mentioned in the speech.)

The issue with "finding warning signs on social media" is - the rate of false positives. So lets say your algo is 99% correct, which it will never be.

What do you do then, and what do you do in the instances of false positives?

You are basically talking about precrime, and forced treatments. While trusting an algo to pick them out.

Mass shooters can retreat from the public, once word of mouth gets out that this is happening. They can publish their 'motivation speech' anywhere and link to it minutes prior to them attempting the crime.

Generally those people arent acting rationally, so you'll catch the stupid ones, but the problem with false positives you can never get in check.

Also - now facebook can flag people for mental treatment.

All in all, not the best idea.
 
Last edited by notimp,
  • Like
Reactions: Jiehfeng

Jiehfeng

The One
OP
Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,498
Trophies
2
Age
22
Location
netti netti.
Website
www.youtube.com
XP
6,991
Country
Sri Lanka
The issue with "finding warning signs on social media" is - the rate of false positives. So lets say your algo is 99% correct, which it will never be.

What do you do then, and what do you do in the instances of false positives?

You are basically talking about precrime, and forced treatments. While trusting an algo to pick them out.

Mass shooters can retreat from the public, once word of mouth gets out that this is happening. They can publish their 'motivation speech' anywhere and link to it minutes prior to them attempting the crime.

Generally people arent acting rationally, so you'll catch the stupid one, but the problem with false positives you can never get in check.

Also - now facebook can flag people for mental treatment.

All in al, not the best idea.

Pretty sure everyone thought the same as you there, Trump didn't give much thought to it.

A great example is actually a videogame, Watch_Dogs, where there's a crime profiling system that predicts the likelihood of someone committing a crime.
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
    K3N1 @ K3N1: https://youtube.com/shorts/PArWUK0WyDQ?feature=share