thaddius' Console Roast 2014 Edition - Round 7

[thaddius]

Even though I'm not a huge Sony fan Silent Hill is my absolute favourite game. Never have I seen a game use the limitations of a console so creatively. Contrasted with games like Turok: Dinosaur Hunter where the draw distance was glaringly obvious, Silent Hill constructed a narrative that used it's shitty draw distance to create atmosphere.

One game that I don't think I'll ever understand from this gen is NiGHTs Into Dreams. I do not find that game to be fun.

 

[raulpica]

I'm not going to justify the CD32 - it could've been MUCH more (especially considering that Commodore had a CD based console system which had more powerful 3D capabilities than the PSX... back in 1991! Damned management), but certainly wasn't the worst of this generation, and whoever voted for it clearly didn't know what an Amiga CD32 really was/is (I'm going to use IS as there is still a lot being released for it, probably a new expansion for it coming out soon, too).

I voted for the Jaguar - it was plainly crap. But maybe that's because I didn't see the "3DO" until I had already voted Tough thing there, they both sucked. Overpromising and overall deluding. But I'd probably put the Jaguar over the 3DO on that. It was overlypumped by Atari, only to be a burning disappointment.

Anyway - the CD32 is awesome, but the PSX was better, both in hardware and in game library. The N64 has a FAR smaller library, but with some hidden gems in it. Overall I'd put the PSX over the N64 (sorry Nintendo fans!)

 

[Vipera]

Amiga CD32 Eh, let it pass
3DO It was a fun concept, despite the huge price
Jaguar Almost as arrogant as the game.com campaign ads, for a system that promised a lot and delivered nothing. At least the guys behind the 3DO tried
Saturn LOL
PS1 All hail the king of consoles of this gen
N64 The console itself sucks and should be the worst if it weren't for some great game that came out of that crappy box. We need more ram already? The controller is what? European graphical limitations? What did you say the price of the games is?

Really, the Jaguar failed under every possible circumstance. And sorry, Tempest 2000 won't save it. The N64 might be as bad, but at least Nintendo delivered something (better graphics than PS1, some unique games like Doom 64 and F-Zero X etc). Can anybody say the same about the Jaguar? I can't find anything.

 

[Foxi4]

*Snip!*

Oh, I'm not ragging on the Nintendo 64 because it's "weak" - by no means. I'd go as far as to say that it was easily the most powerful console of the generation. N64's story is a tragic one in the sense that the hardware had a lot of power, but you couldn't tap into it properly. It had a lot of unified memory, so you'd think that you could use high resolution textures, but no - the size was limited. You couldn't really use that memory for resources either since the system used cartridges which were substantially smaller in capacity than CD's and required developers to compress the assets. It could process a lot of geometry, easily surpassing the PS1 and even the Saturn, but it required the use of microcode, so hardly anyone even bothered. Fortunately it features hardware acceleration which allows for some fancy effects in terms of lighting etc., so it has that going for it. In any case, I voted for the Jaguar simply because it was over-engineered with the CD32 in close second since it was practically a generation behind the rest of the flock.

 

[weatMod]

The 3DO was dedicated to gaming, the reason why it's plagued by interactive video games was The 3DO Company's very lenient licensing terms. 3DO is where Need for Speed and Gex started off, among other franchises. The myth that it has no games worth playing is just that, a myth.

yeah i owned all these systems with the exception of the amigo cd, though i did have an amiga 500 long before the cd came out, plus amiga cd was not released in the states , i had the original panasonic fz1 real player, and i can say i dont know why people are hating on this console so much, the only reason i can see is the 800$ price tag, but besides that i would have to say it was bretty gud ,i would have to put the atari jaguar at the bottom, or the amiga ,probably the amiga as the worst for EU , i cant believe anyone voted for N64 this is just ludacris, one of the best consoles ever , 1st analog controller 1st real 3d graphics, was the most innovative , sony ps1 i always hated the dpad ,what a piece of crap especially for fighting games, with no diagonals horrible design ,

 

[Foxi4]

i cant believe anyone voted for N64 this is just ludacris, one of the best consoles ever , 1st analog controller 1st real 3d graphics, was the most innovative , sony ps1 i always hated the dpad ,what a piece of crap especially for fighting games, with no diagonals horrible design ,

I find all this incredibly debatable. There were analog controllers before the N64, what you probably mean is the shape of the analog nub that we use today. It's also far from "first real 3D graphics" - if by that you mean polygons then a number of consoles used those long prior to the N64. I also don't see how it would be the most innovative when it stuck to cartridges when everybody else moved on to CD's - I fail to see the innovation. As for the lack of diagonals on the PS1's d-pad, I find it hard to think of a D-pad that does feature diagonals off the top of my head, however I admit that it's pretty bad and remains bad to this day. In any case, there's plenty of reasons why people would dub the N64 a bad system, perhaps not the worst in the generation, but definitely not "one of the best systems ever".

 

[weatMod]

I find all this incredibly debatable. There were analog controllers before the N64, what you probably mean is the shape of the analog nub that we use today. It's also far from "first real 3D graphics" - if by that you mean polygons then a number of consoles used those long prior to the N64. I also don't see how it would be the most innovative when it stuck to cartridges when everybody else moved on to CD's - I fail to see the innovation. As for the lack of diagonals on the PS1's d-pad, I find it hard to think of a D-pad that does feature diagonals off the top of my head, however I admit that it's pretty bad and remains bad to this day. In any case, there's plenty of reasons why people would dub the N64 a bad system, perhaps not the worst in the generation, but definitely not "one of the best systems ever".

it was the 1st CONSOLE to have an analog controller standard ,packed in
,and it was really the 1st CONSOLE to really make use of 3d
i dont see how anyone can say that this was not a breakthrough innovation for the industry, and as for it not being one of the best consoles, come on it spawned some of the best games and franchises of all time , LOZ OOT , RE , 007 , so many other nintendo franchises

the n64 choice of carts was not all bad, no load times, no scratching, and the prices of CD games were still just as much so it didnt really benefit the consumer to have CD rom, only the companies benefited ,because they didnt have to spend on expensive carts to publish their games , saving that were NOT passed on to the consumer, and the only other so called + of cd rom was the FMV cut scenes and music , but the FMV on all those consoles was noting special, , and the n64 had good enough sound without it



anyways i think the 3do has got a bad rap in the voting , jaguar had no good games really and miga was just about 16bit graphics and not much better than the amiga computers which were out for long before the cd

 

[Foxi4]

it was the 1st CONSOLE to have an analog controller standard ,packed in
,and it was really the 1st CONSOLE to really make use of 3d

No, it wasn't, and I don't understand what you mean by "really use 3D" - either you use 3D or you don't. There were console games that used polygons long before the N64, so your point is moot.

i dont see how anyone can say that this was not a breakthrough innovation for the industry, and as for it not being one of the best consoles, come on it spawned some of the best games and franchises of all time , LOZ OOT , RE , 007 , so many other nintendo franchises

That still doesn't make it a good console in and out of itself. It was a powerful console, but it was severely limited by previously mentioned constraints, hence the small library and moderate popularity of the system. That, and... Resident Evil on N64? That's an odd choice - I would've gone with the PS1 here, but hey!

the n64 choice of carts was not all bad, no load times, no scratching, and the prices of CD games were still just as much so it didnt really benefit the consumer to have CD rom, only the companies benefited ,because they didnt have to spend on expensive carts to publish their games , saving that were NOT passed on to the consumer, and the only other so called + of cd rom was the FMV cut scenes and music , but the FMV on all those consoles was noting special, , and the n64 had good enough sound without it

This is false. Cartridges were factually more expensive than discs - the average Nintendo 64 game cost $60 and up while a PlayStation game was between $30-$40 - that's a substantial difference. On top of that, CD's had more than twice the capacity of cartridges - so what if the loading times were longer if there was more content, better quality sound and proper textures? Good luck trying to jam games that were on several CD's (Final Fantasy VII, much? One of the reasons why Square backed out of the N64 version was lack of storage) onto one cartridge. The medium strongly contributed to the downfall of the N64 and that's a fact.

anyways i think the 3do has got a bad rap in the voting , jaguar had no good games really and miga was just about 16bit graphics and not much better than the amiga computers which were out for long before the cd

Even the Jaguar had a couple noteworthy titles, think Zool 2. Not a whole lot, but still.

 

[weatMod]

No, it wasn't, and I don't understand what you mean by "really use 3D" - either you use 3D or you don't. There were console games that used polygons long before the N64, so your point is moot.

yes i will give you that, sure atari used analog,and some computers like commodore 64 had analog controllers (but doesnt really count cause its not a console) , but the industry had all but moved away from analog , the 8 bit and 16 generations didnt have any analog for the major consoles ,maybe i am missing some obscure consoles that did ,but snes/super famicom, megadrive/genisis, tg 16/pc engine none used analog nor nes or master system , it wasnt until n64 did we get proper analog control,nintendo made it relevant again ,so it was innovative in that sense

yeah your right saturn and other consoles were 1st out with 3d polygons, but n64 was the 1st time we saw the integration of analog and 3d , open worlds, camera control and have it all tied together nicely for console games
it existed prior ,it just wasnt executed very well

also cd rom isnt an innovation that can be credited to this generation anyways, as tg-16/ pc engine was the 1st and it was somewhere half way between 8 and 16 bit gen

 

[Foxi4]

yes i will give you that, sure atari used analog,and some computers like commodore 64 had analog controllers (but doesnt really count cause its not a console) , but the industry had all but moved away from analog , the 8 bit and 16 generations didnt have any analog for the major consoles ,maybe i am missing some obscure consoles that did ,but snes/super famicom, megadrive/genisis, tg 16/pc engine none used analog nor nes or master system , it wasnt until n64 did we get proper analog control,nintendo made it relevant again ,so it was innovative in that sense

yeah your right saturn and other consoles were 1st out with 3d polygons, but n64 was the 1st time we saw the integration of analog and 3d , open worlds, camera control and have it all tied together nicely for console games
it existed prior ,it just wasnt executed very well

Fair enough, even though that still sounds a bit like mythologizing Nintendo. They definitely contributed to the return of the analog stick and its shape, I'll give them that. Concepts like camera control or open 3D worlds were somewhat a generation thing since consoles finally reached the level of hardware prowess necessary to render complex geometry, but Mario 64 as a game definitely inspired a lot of game developers and was subsequently mimicked time and time again, sure.

 

[weatMod]

Fair enough, even though that still sounds a bit like mythologizing Nintendo. They definitely contributed to the return of the analog stick and its shape, I'll give them that. Concepts like camera control or open 3D worlds were somewhat a generation thing since consoles finally reached the level of hardware prowess to render complex geometry, but Mario 64 as a game definitely inspired a lot of game developers and was subsequently mimicked time and time again, sure.

"mythologizing Nintendo"





KeK

 

[JulietStMoon]

"mythologizing Nintendo"





KeK

I hope to God you're just trolling with that video...

 

[codezer0]

How can the original version of a game be a watered down version?

Probably the fact that the Saturn version of SotN allowed you to pick your player-character from the get-go instead of requiring a code, and also officially had more content and more to explore in both castles.

 

[JulietStMoon]

Probably the fact that the Saturn version of SotN allowed you to pick your player-character from the get-go instead of requiring a code, and also officially had more content and more to explore in both castles.

That doesn't make the original version watered down: It just makes the newer version enhanced. There's a difference. "Watered down" would be if the Saturn version came out first, and then the PS1 version came out with less features. But that's not the case, the PS1 version came first, and then the Saturn version came a year later, with features added as a result of the extra time given to develop it.

Edit: If anything, the Saturn version would be considered a "definitive rerelease" in most cases. But considering how the Saturn version performs noticeably worse than the PS1 version, I'm pretty sure it can't even be called that.

 

[DJPlace]

i don't like the atari jag for some reason's

1.the controller i heard is like a fucking number pad thing.
2.games are shit. (also there the only system that had a bubsy game on there that was good or bad?)
3.the cd add on looks like a fucking toilet.

 

[Pleng]

For me it was kind of a draw between the CD32 and the 3DO because the whole interactive movie thing just sucks. The others had at least were a little more dedicated to real gaming. Just because I it's the only one I hadn't acutally heard of before, I think I ended up going with the CD32 a little too fast but can't change my vote now.

Thanks, I don't feel so bad about my CD32 vote anymore then.

The biggest fault of the Amiga CD32 is simply... it didn't exist. I know a lot of Amiga cultists/fanboys will cry heresy for this, but it's true... it was never discussed anywhere - it was never sold in stores, it was never mentioned in any of the gaming mags out there, and it wasn't even a blip on the then-nascent internet.

Ok the author of the OP did explain the issues of the CD32 in America, but you're doing that thing again of assuming that you make up the world. Very bad.

The CD32 was very successful initially in the UK. It was advertised on TV (see below) and in magazines ("To be this good would take SEGA AGES") here, and my brother bought his, which I later bought from him - and pimped up to the max, from a well known UK store (think it was PC World).

There are lots of failings, sure. But voting against it because you don't like interactive movies is bizzare. Very few of the games for it were interactive movies - the biggest criticism it had were that the games were only generally ports of Amiga 500/1200 games with a cartoon intro slapped to the beginning and limited save possibilities (due to the ridiculously small amount of NVRAM the device came with). Having said that, some of the games that were 'ported' from the Amiga were gems of their time; Pinball Fantasies, Bubba 'n' Stix, Superfrog, Skidmarks and Worms spring immediately to mind. I don't remember a single 'Interactive Movie' game. I'm sure they probably do exist, but they make up such a small amount of the library - It was certainly marketed as a gaming console.

The fact that it was 'just' an Amiga was it's biggest problem - as mentioned above the games were mostly Amiga ports and the Amiga couldn't really manage 3D graphics. The CD32 had an additional 'chunky-to-plannar' chip to help with this, but it was only used in one game as far as I remember.

However, while being it's biggest drawback, it was also one of its great advantages in the early days; CD32 Magazines came with cover CDs packed full of not only demos, but great little Amiga PD/Shareware games. Every month you could pick up a magazine for a few quid that had the latest game demos, a few movie trailers, some video game reviews and 20 or more Amiga PD games. Yes most of them were crap, but there were usually a few decent gems in each month's issue.

It probably didn't get a mention much on the internet of the time as unmetered internet hadn't come to the UK and Europe yet. We still had to *pay* per minute for dial-up access; so it wasn't very widespread for casual use. However those of us in the UK who used to check the Digitizer game charts would see CD32 games maxing out the CD System game sales charts. Usually there'd be 8 CD32 titles in positions 1-8, with the list being propped up by a couple of "PCCD" games. Occasionally the MegaCD would get a big release that would jump to number 1 spot for a week, before normal service was resumed.

 

[Vipera]

"mythologizing Nintendo"



*video*

KeK

Wha...? No, just no. Why do we have to see such idiotic comparisons whenever something new gets released? The whole "iPhone X vs Rock" became old quickly, thankfully. I can't wait for this new fad to disappear as well.

 

[Psionic Roshambo]

I voted Jaguar but it was a tough choice between that and the CD32, the saving grace for the CD32 was with some add ons you could turn it into a full fledged Amiga 1200ish machine. That alone made it at least attractive. Where it not for that fact, I would have have voted it the worst machine out of the list. The graphics on the stand alone machine where barely better than the SNES (Star Fox and Doom on the SNES are better looking than Guardian and Gloom on a plain CD32.)

On the Jaguar you could buy the CD add on.... or not... lol

On the side of the Jaguar you had at the time the amazing looking AVP, Tempest X (later released on the PS1, I still have my copy lol) and maybe 3-4 other pretty good games. (Nothing that would blow your socks off.) Given that the Jaguar had better graphics than the CD32 made it a tough vote for me, but the library of the two machines is where the CD32 won out... Turning the CD32 into an Amiga 1200 opened up the entire library of A500-A1200 games literally thousands of games, they may have been 16 bit looking games but still you had some sort of access and some of them where utterly brilliant. (I liked playing the A500 back when the NES was in full swing. Little did I know some of the best would be ported to the SNES and Genesis later on.)

Jaguar wins by the lack of strength of its library on this list, only recommended for the hardcore collector (It had some gems but damned few of them.)

PS1 had the best controller by leaps and bounds on this list... The D pad and lack of Analog where it's only weakness's and Dual Shock fixed one of those in the most awesome way possible. Still don't like the D pad even on my Dual Shock 3.

*If anyone is interested in buying a Jaguar I would recommend emulating the thing first... you may change your mind. I know I did.. lol (I also heard the controller is painful to use after even medium periods of game play.)

 

[Sakitoshi]

That doesn't make the original version watered down: It just makes the newer version enhanced. There's a difference. "Watered down" would be if the Saturn version came out first, and then the PS1 version came out with less features. But that's not the case, the PS1 version came first, and then the Saturn version came a year later, with features added as a result of the extra time given to develop it.

Edit: If anything, the Saturn version would be considered a "definitive rerelease" in most cases. But considering how the Saturn version performs noticeably worse than the PS1 version, I'm pretty sure it can't even be called that.

as nobody has pointed out this correctly I'll do. the story goes like this...
Konami was creating a game named Castlevania Symphony of the Night, said game was to be released on the, at that time new, console called Sony Playstation. Sony pushed Konami to release Castlevania SotN earlier and thus Konami leave content out of the game. Konami then started porting the game to the Saturn while continued to develop the scrapped content. 3 months later Konami release Castlevania SotN in the Sega Saturn(renamed Nocturne in the Moonlight) and had extra content, said extra content was planned for the Playstation version of the game, but thanks to Sony rushing Konami that never happened.
now I'll list the content that was cut:
- The ability of start a new game with 3 characters, namely Alucard, Richter Belmont and Maria Renard. all of them were available since the beginning and with a nice character selection screen. Note: this iteration of Maria isn't like the one found on the PSP enhanced rerelease of SotN inside Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles.
- While playing as Alucard a "third hand" is available to use consumable items.
- More items are available to use, a example are the "Alucard boots".
- 2 new areas are available, know as the "Cursed Prison" and the "Underground Garden". remains of the entrance to the Underground Gardens can be found in the Playstation version of the game.
- Also there are more songs, remixes of music from previous games.

but not all the things about the Saturn version were good things. Sega probably also ruched Konami to release the game earlier after seeing that the game was already released on the Playstation. the result? longer loading times, problems with the transparency(this was most likely due to hardware limitations as the Saturn didn't natively supported transparency) and stretched sprites due to mismatching on the resolution of the Playstation and the Saturn.

 

[JulietStMoon]

as nobody has pointed out this correctly I'll do. the story goes like this...
Konami was creating a game named Castlevania Symphony of the Night, said game was to be released on the, at that time new, console called Sony Playstation. Sony pushed Konami to release Castlevania SotN earlier and thus Konami leave content out of the game. Konami then started porting the game to the Saturn while continued to develop the scrapped content. 3 months later Konami release Castlevania SotN in the Sega Saturn(renamed Nocturne in the Moonlight) and had extra content, said extra content was planned for the Playstation version of the game, but thanks to Sony rushing Konami that never happened.
now I'll list the content that was cut:
- The ability of start a new game with 3 characters, namely Alucard, Richter Belmont and Maria Renard. all of them were available since the beginning and with a nice character selection screen. Note: this iteration of Maria isn't like the one found on the PSP enhanced rerelease of SotN inside Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles.
- While playing as Alucard a "third hand" is available to use consumable items.
- More items are available to use, a example are the "Alucard boots".
- 2 new areas are available, know as the "Cursed Prison" and the "Underground Garden". remains of the entrance to the Underground Gardens can be found in the Playstation version of the game.
- Also there are more songs, remixes of music from previous games.

but not all the things about the Saturn version were good things. Sega probably also ruched Konami to release the game earlier after seeing that the game was already released on the Playstation. the result? longer loading times, problems with the transparency(this was most likely due to hardware limitations as the Saturn didn't natively supported transparency) and stretched sprites due to mismatching on the resolution of the Playstation and the Saturn.

In other words, exactly what I said... The Saturn one came out later, giving it more development time to add stuff. The reason it was cut from the original PlayStation release doesn't really matter: It still doesn't mean that the PlayStation version was watered down.