SWITCH "WII-U" PORTS ON WII-U

Discussion in 'Wii U - Homebrew' started by MENTALDOMINANCE, Jan 24, 2019.

  1. MENTALDOMINANCE
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    MENTALDOMINANCE Member

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    Greetings! I am totally baffled why so many Switch people are giving raves for such a large portion of the games
    when many of them seem to just be WII-U ports with slightly new features. There are not really many totally new
    first person titles, even Breath of the Wild is just a port from the WII-U.

    I have been wondering - Has anyone considered trying to port any of the Switch "enhanced" WII-U ports such
    as New Super Mario Bros. U DELUXE or Mario Kart 8 DELUXE back to the WII-U it's self?

    All the new versions seem to be are the exact same game but with minor tweaks, something that could have been done
    with a DLC addon for the WII-U version actually if they were still supporting the WII-U. Since we have level editors and
    everything else for many of these games, it seems it shouldn't be very hard for a talented programmer to basically bring
    the enhancements over to the WII-U. NEW SUPER MARIO BROS. U DELUXE especially seems almost identical, with only
    the addition of a few new characters such as BOWSETTE added and AFAIK, not even any new levels.
    Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze for Switch is the same, with only a new easy mode added and a few other minor tweaks.

    Any comments?
     
  2. Olmectron

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    Developing for the Wii U is completely different to developing for the Switch. Both consoles use a completely different architecture.

    Also, you need the source code. And even if you had it, porting it wouldn't be like eating cake. It's really hard.

    I'm really impressed Nintendo managed to finish Breath of the Wild for Wii U while also releasing it on Switch. It should have been a lot of work, refactoring code for the new architecture.

    So, no, it's not possible, even if you somehow managed to steal Nintendo's source code for those games.
     
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  3. JustinCredible

    JustinCredible GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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  4. Moon164

    Moon164 GBAtemp Regular

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    I think it's possible to put characters like the Inklings in the Mario Kart 8 version of Wii U or the Toadette and the Funky Kong in the NSBU and DKCTF ( or even the Odyssey stages of 3DS/Switch version of Captain Toad ), more or less like they did by putting things of Splatoon 2 in Splatoon 1





    But porting the entire Switch game to Wii U is unfeasible, both consoles have different architecture, and versions of the Switch run at a higher resolution than the Wii U probably could not handle

    The most anyone could do is a Mario Kart 8 Deluxe Mod on the Mario Kart 8 on Wii U, similar to the Wii's New Mario Kart 7.
     
    Last edited by Moon164, Jan 25, 2019
  5. MENTALDOMINANCE
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    MENTALDOMINANCE Member

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    I'm not talking about porting the entire game, I'm talking about hacking the new mods into it.
    I just finished looking at the files. The files within the SZS and SARC archives have been all mixed up, they seem to have the
    same files, but are stored in different archives in different folders. There are many reasons why this is true but I do know for
    a fact that it is true. When they deal with the game, they likely unpack everything and for the sake of organization, when
    they repacked everything back up for the SWITCH version, they put some things in different places because the new
    EXECUTABLE points to new and different things.

    For instance, the "Pa0_jyotyu" file on the WII-U is in the 1-1.szs but on the SWITCH it is in a different archive, yet many are
    interchangeable. I do understand how stuff works, it would just take time to map out where everything is first. Then edit it
    all and move it to where it should be and repack it. As I have said, I have, without editing anything, already done this.
    Since I don't know what most of the files are yet, I have not noticed anything different in the game when playing it but that's
    not to say there is nothing different, I may not know what to be looking for or where to be looking for it! 8)
    All I know is at the file level (the files within the archives, not the archive level. The archives can not just be interchanged
    because they all contain different sets of files), many things are the same and interchangeable.

    The levels for many games are often identical across all platforms, only the executables change.
    The executable is the part dependent on architecture of the specific machine, but they're usually made to load in the same
    level, sound, character, etc. data.

    I have successfully swapped files between the Switch and WII-U version and had it work, but there ARE some changes that
    have likely been made to the SWITCH executable to make it look for the extra characters Toadette and Princess Peach, ETC.

    However, if I was able to just pull 1 character and swap it with 1 in the WII-U version, for instance, change Luigi with Peach,
    I think this would be possible. It all depends. There are also script files which are editable that define characteristics and all
    sorts of things, as well as level editors that have been made. As stated above, it will require unpacking ALL the files and
    mapping what archive each file goes into in each version. Then knowing what part of the game each file goes to, swapping
    the necessary files and packing them up properly. I think this may work with doing a simple character or level swap.
    But I feel someone with a better understanding could take this further by editing the meta data and other data that the
    level editors edit, stuff like where everything is and what it is, etc. the layouts. It depends on if the new functions of the
    new characters were created by just editing this data (For instance, Peach has a higher number for floating) or if there are
    some new functions that are so new, they actually had to code it into the executable. It does not appear this is the case
    however, at least, as far as I can see, all the new "features" seem to be created by simply editing the data that is already
    available to be edited and the only parts that may need the new code would be the parts where new characters are
    selected, etc. but even that doesn't necessarily need a new executable to be done either, as said above, it all depends.

    Other people have obviously already reversed these things far more than me just playing around with it for a few hours.
    My point is, it's likely doable. It may not be 100% in the sense that we'd end up with a perfect 1:1 WII-U version of the
    SWITCH's "SUPER MARIO BROS. U DELUXE" but I am sure some of the new things can be brought into the WII-U version.

    MODDERS: CHALLENGE AWAITS!!! 8)
     
    Last edited by MENTALDOMINANCE, Jan 25, 2019
  6. n00bsaib0t

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    BOTW is a multiplatform title with simultaneous releases on both platforms. If that is a "port" then you just made every multiplatform game a "port". PS4, rather than having hundreds of games worth playing, is just "ports" of XB1 and PC games with a handful of it's own titles using that logic. Ports come later, not at the same time. Literally no one called games like Destiny launching on PS3, 360, PS4, and XB1 at the same time "ports", I don't get why people try downplaying BOTW as one.

    As for what you're trying to ask about, it's not that easy. Sure, cosmetics in Splatoon were ported over as mods. You could port over Toadette for NSMBU and Funky for Tropical Freeze as simple skin swaps that exact same way. You could port over the new characters for MK8D the same way. You're gonna have a much harder time actually adding Toadette and Funky's abilities to their respective games, and you have to completely overhaul MK8D's character select screen to actually add the new characters, make BOTW Link an alternate rather than just swapping him in, putting in the battle mode tracks, and what not. Sure, replacing files with new ones is simple enough stuff people have been doing for decades at this point, but you're asking for games to be overhauled to support new content. It can technically be done, but I highly doubt anyone wants to.
     
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  7. jesus96

    jesus96 Advanced Member

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    Probably the newer team could make the "deluxe" version for the Wii U but since they cancelled newer is not going to happen in years

    In the MK case just wait until we got the mk Wii hacks treatment on Wii U

    There's also hacks for splatoon but there's no point on using these without custom servers

    For pokken tournament I think that the game is already dead so no one is going to even trying
     
  8. Meepers55

    Meepers55 GBAtemp Regular

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    I think mods that incorporate the Switch enhanced features aren't a bad idea. However, I'm not sure if many modders want to do that. It could happen, but it probably won't. If only you didn't word the title of this thread so poorly; you could've gotten more attention.
     
  9. CORE

    CORE GBAtemp Regular

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    BOTW ditched WiiU features to favor the Switch cause it would take the look off it , im talking about the map and inventory screen etc. ie 2nd screen on Gamepad.

    Yeah boost your new Switch and f***over those who have it for Wii U. Most of the Switch library is made up of indie and Wii U ports along with lesser ports of other games the one thing they got going for them is portability TV hookup and Handheld.
     
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  10. n00bsaib0t

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    BOTW can't even hold it's frame rate on WiiU with one screen, Nintendo disabling the second screen did everyone that could only play the WiiU version a freaking favor. Yes, having to render the second screen does tax the GPU.

    As for the ports, Nintendo themselves have only ported how many games now? Even if we count third party licensed titles like Pokken and Hyrule Warriors (which are as much a "Nintendo" title as X-Men Children of the Atom was a Marvel title and not a Capcom title) Nintendo ported five games. MK8D, Tropical Freeze, Captain Toad, Pokken, and Hyrule Warriors. That is not "f***ing over" those who have them for WiiU. Not anymore than porting Wooly World, Hyrule Warriors, and Captain Toad to 3DS. The other ports, well Nintendo doesn't really get to control what third parties do. Bayonetta, Bayonetta 2, Rayman, Scribblenauts, and the handful of other games aren't hurting the WiiU in the slightest, your games still work, my games still work, they're just on another platform now. Did The Last of Us on PS4 "f*** over" those who had it on PS3? Did Master Chief Collection "f*** over" those who had those games on 360? Ports are pretty dang common. Did Nintendo "f*** over" Game Cuber owners with the Wii? 100% backward compatibility plus ports.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Play_Control!

    Most of every library that isn't PC are inferior versions of a game available elsewhere, so I'm not sure why that is a knock against the Switch. Switch plays those games better than a PS4 or XB1 when unplugged, PS4 and XB1 play them better when plugged in. Big freaking deal. The vast majority of every platforms games are ports and multiplatform. Its pretty much been this way since gen 6. For some reason there is a huge double standard when it comes to Nintendo when it's fine for everyone else.
     
  11. dragon12

    dragon12 GBAtemp Regular

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    The battle arenas were ported to the Mario Kart 8 U.



    They replace normal tracks though as nobody has come with a solution to add new slots for tracks.
     
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  12. TheMrIron2

    TheMrIron2 GBAtemp Regular

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    What are you saying? The Wii U had native 1920x1080 games and the only games that are 1920x1080 on Switch right now are almost entirely Wii U ports. Sure, the Wii U games Nintendo made generally ran at 1280x720, but Smash 4 for example is 1080p @ 60FPS.

    There's a fundamental difference between a cross platform release and BOTW's case, because BOTW began development as a Wii U game and features were cut from the Wii U version for the purpose of parity. The cost of rendering a static 2D inventory/map screen on the Wii U gamepad is trivial and wouldn't cost even a full frame, so this excuse for the omission is baseless.
     
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  13. CORE

    CORE GBAtemp Regular

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    Exactly! Point Made.
     
  14. n00bsaib0t

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    There really isn't a difference. Most games have a lead platform and then the game is ported to other platforms. In a lot of cases games are made for PC and then ported to other platforms, that's just how it goes. Some of those games are even stripped down for parity.

    And that inventory screen would still tax the GPU, whether you like it or not. It's not a static screen. It's real time inventory management, not a picture. You don't seem to know what static means. Why do you think games like Tropical Freeze didn't render anything on the second screen? I mean, you can take an old desktop from the 800x600 days not designed for dual monitors and use a VGA splitter to put it on two 1080p monitors and just having the "static" desktops would cause it to have unbelievable lag. Something running in real time is not a static image, even if it's not jumping around the screen.
     
  15. TheMrIron2

    TheMrIron2 GBAtemp Regular

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    It's literally drawing images at 854x480 as the total gamepad resolution - you're telling me that's going to seriously sap GPU time? If you're actually telling me that having an inventory screen has a performance impact serious enough to be taken out of the game, I advise you write me a program to prove your point, because on paper the Wii U should literally have no issue with that. The amount of memory inventory images and all take up is quite small - a megabyte, maybe - and even with an extra 480p framebuffer, you're telling me the Wii U is choking on bandwidth with a 720p game? When a 1080p Wii U game consumes more memory and bandwidth than rendering a 720p game on gamepad and TV simultaneously? Besides, BOTW on Wii U has other bottlenecks - such as CPU for its fire propagation and streaming the installed data - so again, I seriously doubt this would become a genuine bottleneck.

    The VGA comparison is unfair, because that's an issue with the machine choking under memory and bandwidth restraints; the Wii U has no issue rendering a 1080p game at 60 frames per second while also rendering on the Wii U gamepad at 854x480 at the same speed - see Smash 4.
     
    Last edited by TheMrIron2, Feb 10, 2019 at 8:39 PM
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  16. n00bsaib0t

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    Using that logic, BOTW should render on TV at 1080p 60 FPS and be able to render on the gamepad at it's native resolution as well. BOTW isn't Smash. BOTW is a large open world game, Smash is confined to small stages with relatively little going on in comparison. Tekken 5 was 1080p on PS3. Why wasn't The Last of Us also 1080p?

    BOTW demands a lot more of the system than Smash does, you're going to have to accept that some day. BOTW doesn't even hold it's 720p resolution, dipping down as low as 544p. It doesn't hold its 30 FPS, dipping into the teens despite that dynamic resolution. BOTW is pushing the WiiU to it's limits, hell it's one of the only Nintendo made games on both WiiU and Switch that isn't 1080p on the Switch. It's not a matter of just the second screen, it's rendering everything it is rendering for the TV to the point that it can't hold it's resolution or frame rate and rendering the game pad as well.

    I mean, you might have had a better point asking why WWHD and TPHD, also Zelda games, are 1080p and output inventory to the gamepad. But even then those games aren't nearly the size of BOTW. All of Twilight Princess is the size of the Great Plateau. It's about the size of the assets in memory, how many of them there are, draw distances, and the like as well. It's not as simple as "but 1080p!".
     
  17. Meepers55

    Meepers55 GBAtemp Regular

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    Xenoblade Chronicles X had an interactive map on the gamepad, and it was pretty much as demanding as BOTW. I highly doubt a mere map would cause the game to be unplayable.
     
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  18. osaka35

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    that's...not accurate. It was originally being made for the Wiiu, but somewhere halfway through, switch development was included and the game was developed with both in mind. They reworked the parts they had already done, continued the rest of the development, then released for both. Most of the development both consoles were in the mix. Some say it was more aimed for the switch during the majority of the development, and then just downgraded in parts to work on the Wii U, but I'm not aware of anyone going on record to say this. But saying it was a port is like saying the xbox release of kingdom hearts 3 was a port of the ps4 kingdom hearts 3. it...doesn't really make sense. Features are added and removed from development all the time, it's hardly a reason to think of the switch version as a port.

    I can explain why ports are good for the switch and for nintendo as a company, and as us as consumers. Why people like them is a slightly different topic, I'll touch on that after.

    First, ports are generally defined as games that are the same, just coding changes to work natively on different hardware. usually adds bonuses specific to the hardware (but doesn't have to), like improved FPS (frames per second), or resolution, or some extra content (example:metroid prime HD). Sometimes this results in a horrible disaster (silent hill HD), but older games that are ported to newer ones usually aim to make it playable on modern consoles and fix some known issues. A remake is where the game is pretty much redone from the ground up but tries to stick closely as possible to the original (example:spyro, crash). A re-imagining is where the game is pretty much redone from the ground up, but greatly changes core mechanics, gameplay, and/or narrative for whatever reason (example:ff7-remake) .

    Some games are ported so the game stays relevant and so people can replay them and familiarize themselves with the series again. It also introduces folks who have never played the series. As well as make an easy profit. Kingdom Hearts HD is a fine example of this. Something like mario wii u is ported mainly because it sold gangbusters for the Wii, so it's been ported to the Wii U and the switch. Switch has sold more than the life-time sales of the Wii U, and that was nearly a year ago. It will surpass the life-time PS4 sales in japan this year at some point. For nintendo, that's a lot of new players. Porting allows them to sell these games to all these new players, as well as guaranteed profit.

    Another bonus is it can act as training for employees who aren't used to developing for the different architecture. It's great, simple, easy training with minimal cost and great profitable results. It's a no-brainer for them and other developers who decide to port as well.

    As far as why someone would want to play it on switch rather than Wii U...it's on an individual basis. You probably should have made up a poll to figure it out. My guess is mainly because of the mobility, because of the ease of local multi-play, and possible never picking up the original. Switch mario kart, for example, is a good port. Updates the stats a bit, adds a few new things, but mainly it just allows everyone to play on the latest console. Great local and online play. Why wouldn't you pick it up? And I never bought donkey kong for the Wii U. Which version am I going to buy? the switch version, obviously.
     
    Last edited by osaka35, Feb 11, 2019 at 1:24 AM
  19. n00bsaib0t

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    The engine wasn't as demanding as BOTWs. Xenoblade didn't have nearly as much going on with the physics.
     
  20. Meepers55

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    That doesn't mean the game wasn't as demanding. The environments alone are far more detailed than what you'd see in BOTW. A decent number of different monsters are also loaded on screen pretty often. There are aspects other than a physics engine that make the game just as, if not more, demanding.
     
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