So shouldn't we call OOT a primary exploit?

Discussion in '3DS - Flashcards & Custom Firmwares' started by Jiro2, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. Jiro2
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    Jiro2 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    For some reason everyone calls OOT a secondary exploit. It is true that you need to buy something that you'll never use again (a Powersaves) to run the exploit. But it is also true that Freakyhax means you need to buy something that you'll never use again (Freakyforms Deluxe). Why does it matter whether it's "have to buy exploit game" or "have to buy exploit game + device"?

    Wouldn't a more useful definition of "primary exploit" mean "an exploit which doesn't need another hack to install the exploit"? If you use that definition, then OOT is a primary exploit, because all you need to do is buy something, just like all you need to do is buy Freakyforms or Cubic Ninja.

    In this connection, https://www.3dbrew.org/wiki/Homebrew_Exploits defines "secondary exploits" as "Installation of these exploits requires a previously exploited system to install." By this definition, OOT is a primary exploit, since a Powersaves is not a previously exploited system. Nevertheless, it lists OOT as secondary.
     


  2. LinkSoraZelda

    LinkSoraZelda GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    You need to have another device or another console to inject the hacked save. If the game is useless by itself, it's secondary.
     
  3. James310

    James310 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    You just answered it your self, if it requires somethings additional then it's a secondary , you said "OOT is a primary exploit, all you need to do is buy something else" what!?! Then it's already a secondary once you need something additional to make it work
     
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  4. Jiro2
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    Jiro2 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    The definition "requires something in addition to a game" makes it a secondary exploit, the problem is--why would you want to use that definition in the first place?

    To the average person, both OOThax and Freakyhax require buying something they'll never use again. The fact that one of them is a Powersaves and one is a game is irrelevant to them. People don't play Freakyforms Deluxe; it's just a hacking device that happens to be shaped like a cart, just like the Powersaves.

    If you change the definition to "can you do this without a hacked system", then OOT would be defined as a primary exploit.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Why should we define "secondary" such that "if the game is useless by itself, it's secondary"? It's not like this is a long established dictionary definition. It's just something that someone made up.
     
    Last edited by Jiro2, Jun 24, 2016
  5. LinkSoraZelda

    LinkSoraZelda GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    Because we're not changing widely accepted definitions to one person.
    You're thinking of "paid" exploits and "free" exploits.
     
    Last edited by LinkSoraZelda, Jun 24, 2016
  6. Kliffcom

    Kliffcom GBAtemp Regular

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    You can't call out a primary exploit since it can't be used without a 3DS that has already access to homebrew. Powersaves count as hacking since it modifies the save game on a way that's not possible on a normal 3ds.
     
    Last edited by Kliffcom, Jun 24, 2016
  7. Jiro2
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    Jiro2 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    I'm questioning the "widely accepted" definition. Which seems to have existed mostly because nobody thought about whether it makes sense.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    It can be used with a Powersaves. A Powersaves is not a 3DS that already has access to homebrew.
     
  8. LinkSoraZelda

    LinkSoraZelda GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    Secondary. Second. Second means after the first.
    Exploit. Finding a way to get an effect through holes or bugs in software.
    A secondary exploit is an exploit you can only use with an existing exploit.
     
    Last edited by LinkSoraZelda, Jun 24, 2016
  9. Jiro2
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    Jiro2 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    You don't need an existing exploit, you need a Powersaves. Yes, you need to put an exploit on the Powersaves, but we don't call Cubic Ninja secondary because it has to download the exploit from the Internet and you need to put the exploit on the Internet.
     
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  10. LinkSoraZelda

    LinkSoraZelda GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    I didn't know that you had to already have homebrew running on your device before you could install Ninjhax.
     
  11. Jiro2
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    Jiro2 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    You don't need to have homebrew running on your device before you can install OOThax either. You need a Powersaves, you don't need to be able to run homebrew.
     
  12. loco365

    loco365 GBAtemp Guru

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    Originally, OoTHaxx was supposed to be installed with another hack via the Homebrew Launcher. The method of using Powersaves came well after the hack was originally released. Hence, it's a secondary exploit.
     
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  13. LinkSoraZelda

    LinkSoraZelda GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    Powersaves counts as an exploit. Just because it isn't on the system doesn't change much, it's still a secondary requirement that is seperate from the game.
     
  14. Kliffcom

    Kliffcom GBAtemp Regular

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    You need a powersave card for that. Cubic Ninja doesn't require that. Homebrew can be used with just the game and nothing else. Powersaves are an external hacking tool so it counts as homebrew.
     
    Last edited by Kliffcom, Jun 24, 2016
  15. Temptress Cerise

    Temptress Cerise Miss Magic~ <3

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    I think you are trying to take these definitions way too seriously.

    Cubic Ninja and Freakyforms Deluxe have both been accepted as being Primary, since, we just need to own//have the game. Getting the exploit onto them, does not us require to have an exploited system or to buy a Powersave or Save editor dongle.

    Anything that requires more than the game is a Secondary. That's it. It doesn't matter if no one ever plays Cubic Ninja or Freakyforms Deluxe for the actual game, we just need to have the game. One purchase of a single item.
     
    Last edited by Temptress Cerise, Jun 24, 2016
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  16. Kyojin

    Kyojin #include "brain.h"

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    Look at it this way;

    freakyhax: you have to get (buy) 1 item in order to access homebrew
    ninjhax: you have to get (buy) 1 item in order to access homebrew
    browserhax: you don't have to buy anything or have another entry point

    oothax: you've got to already have access to hombrew, or get Powsersave. So you have to get (buy) 2 items to access homebrew

    The fact that you'll buy stuff that "you'll never use again" and that "nobody plays Freakyforms or Cubic Ninja" is YOUR judgment. Not all people that buy Ocarina of Time do it because they actually wanna play the game. ;)
     
    Last edited by Kyojin, Jun 24, 2016
  17. Jiro2
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    Jiro2 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    That should mean it was once considered a secondary exploit, but then a way was discovered (Powersaves) to use it without another hack, so now it can be considered primary because of this new discovery.

    But why should the definition be "secondary requirement that is separate from the game"?

    You are putting the dividing line between buying 1 and 2 items. Why not instead put the dividing line between "buying some items" and "not being able to do it just by buying any number of items"?
     
    Last edited by Jiro2, Jun 24, 2016
  18. Kliffcom

    Kliffcom GBAtemp Regular

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    Powersave replace the exploited system since they modify the save game in a way that's not possible on an unhacked console. It hacks the savegame of the game card.
     
  19. LinkSoraZelda

    LinkSoraZelda GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    A) Powersaves is a hack
    B) Because that's literally what the word secondary means.
    C) free or not is irrelevant.
     
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  20. linuxares

    linuxares GBAtemp Psycho!

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    OoTHax is a secondary, end of discussion. I really don't understand why this thread is going on.
     
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